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David Poland

By David Poland

Friday Estimates – Felt Falls To GlamAsians

Friday Estimates 2018-08-25 at 10.51.34 AM 651

248 Responses to “Friday Estimates – Felt Falls To GlamAsians”

  1. Geoff says:

    Great hold for Crazy Rich Asians….$150 million domestic is looking like a possibility I think. Or maybe the Ben Shapiro-lead backlash will kick in NEXT week.

  2. JS Partisan says:


  3. movieman says:

    That’s a terrible # for “Support the Girls,” esp. considering the reviews.
    I thought it must’ve been VOD (w/ “limited theatrcial”), but couldn’t find it on my cable’s On Demand menu.
    I love Bujalski and was really looking forward to seeing it.
    Big #s for “Searching,” though.
    I wonder if Sony will reconsider their meager 1,000-print expansion plans for next Friday and take it a little wider.
    P.S.= It looks like “Christopher Robin” will officially surpass the $76-million domestic cume of “Pete’s Dragon” tomorrow. Sweet (although I like both movies equally).

  4. JS Partisan says:

    Hey! Ant-Man and the Wasp scored a 21.5m opening day in China, so it should be on it’s way to beating the previous Ant-Man by like, fifteen bucks :D! A win is a win, but if it can make 600m. If that somehow happens, which may or may not be possible depending on it’s legs in China. If it makes 600, then that’s 4bn on the year for Marvel Studios. “Marvel Studios: The Studio Untalented Hack Studio Execs Think They Know How to Run Better, than the PEOPLE WHO RUN IT!”

  5. Christian says:

    Yes, Movieman, that S”upport the Girls” number is terrible. I wasn’t as ecstatic as some, but I liked the film and, always hoping for comedies – this one might be more of a dramedy – to get awards recognition, was thinking Hall might have an outside shot, if not with the Academy than with the Globes. Bad box office is poisonous to such chances,especially for lower-profile movies like this one.
    Oh, and following up on last week’s discussion, I saw “Alpha.” My advice to you and others is: don’t.

  6. movieman says:

    Thanks for the info, Christian.
    I’m still looking forward to the Bujalski movie. But at this point DVD seems like my only option.
    I still haven’t been able to drag my ass to “Alpha:” “Happytime Murders” kind of knocked the wind out of my sails.

    P.S.= Did anyone else see “To All the Boys I’ve Loved Before” on Netflix? I went in highly skeptical since most ‘flex teen comedies (e.g., “The Kissing Booth”) have left me cold, but wound up really enjoying it. Lana Condor and Noah Centineo make a puppy-dog adorable high school couple: it’s impossible not to root for them. And Centineo is wildly charismatic: vocally and physically he’s like a baby (well, teenage) Mark Ruffalo.

  7. Bitplaya says:

    Kind shame Happytime didn’t do better. It’s okay, a few laughs, it doesn’t go far enough and it’s not clever enough regarding the plotting.

    I think they could have gotten the gross up by several million with a bigger spend and promotion.

  8. Non-Revisionist says:

    Bitplaya, Happytime had terrible reviews and a bad CinemaScore. Spending more on advertising would have just been flushing money down the toilet. I thought it was an embarrassingly bad movie.

  9. Amblinman says:

    Speaking of McCarthy, just saw Life Of The Party. Woof. She really needs to stop working with her husband. Killing her career.

  10. Tom Reagan's Hat says:

    movieman… very much enjoyed ‘To All the Boys I’ve Loved Before.’ Between that and ‘The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society,’ NetFlix is on a good run with original films with unwieldy titles.

  11. Stella's Boy says:

    Ethan Hawke is right.

  12. Pete B says:

    ^ That he never should have cheated on Uma? Yeah, that was a dumbass move.

  13. Stella's Boy says:

    No that Coke is better than Pepsi. Obviously. Get with it Pete.

  14. amblinman says:

    Hawke isn’t right, but this is an argument that’s been around fooooooooreeeeeeeever.

    If you legitimately love movies, you understand not everything needs to be a 1:1. Some films and genres are just a breed apart and it’s not necessary to compare. Hawke is being what Hawke has always been: a pretentious douche (I like him as an actor, but I’d rather drive a steel spike through the base of my skull than have a drink with him at a bar).

  15. Stella's Boy says:

    Me thinks some people didn’t read the entire interview, just responses from angry fanboys. Much easier to just label Hawke a pretentious douche, which people have been doing for many years. He’d be a great drinking companion. The way that some folks get so fucking angry whenever someone doesn’t bow down to superhero movies is sad. He likes genre movies. He makes them. He didn’t say all superhero movies suck and are worthless. But hey rush to the defense of a movie that made a billion dollars!! Fight the good fight.

  16. amblinman says:

    I don’t know who you’re addressing, but I haven’t seen any comments here “rushing” to any movie’s defense. I’m not so angry, fucking or otherwise, over superhero movies. I was addressing precisely the comments he made regarding Logan and nothing else, so stfu with your own leaps. Or go have whatever argument it is you want to have with someone actually making it.

    Or maybe put the bag down that you’re hyperventilating into and go outside.

  17. Stella's Boy says:

    You’re not angry? Right. You’re proving my point. Maybe go read the interview. Imagine that, an informed opinion.

  18. Hcat says:

    I have never gotten the appeal of Ethan Hawke but I do have to give him props for taking the roles that he does (though to be honest I doubt he is turning down studio pictures left and right to remain pure). I think he can be both right and pretentious.

    I totally agree with him on Logan, decent picture but to put it in the awards conversation? And I would applaud Panther showing up in the nominations but thought that there was much more THERE there than with Logan. I agree its a shame that something smaller didn’t make the cut because people were impressed that Logan was deeper than other Wolverine movies, but acknowledge that the Academy certainly doesn’t follow my tastes and do not vote as a collective.

  19. amblinman says:

    “You’re not angry?”

    No, bro, I’m not mad.

    “You’re proving my point”

    No I’m not.

    You should have added another moron-ism to your post so you could rack up an internet-moron-argument-trifecta.

  20. Stella's Boy says:

    Says the person who hasn’t even read the interview in question. I love irony. Hey man whatever helps you cope with your anger. You should try, I don’t know, reading. It really helps. Bro.

  21. movieman says:

    I really liked “Guernsey,” too, TR Hat.
    It’s the kind of movie Miramax could have released in 1995–and that would’ve been in arthouses for six months (w/ maybe a shot at some serious Oscar attention).
    In 2018, it streams “first run” on Netflix.
    It’s a strange new world I’m living in, lol.
    So weird that most of the movies I’m looking forward to this fall–new films by Orson (!!) Welles, Alfonso Cuaron, Nicole Holofcener, Tamara Jenkins, David MacKenzie, etc.–are all Netflix productions.

  22. Stella's Boy says:

    The Holofcener looks so good. Can’t wait. New one from Green Room director looks good too. Would be nice if Netflix starts making good movies on a regular basis.

  23. JS Partisan says:

    I adore fucking Ethan Hawke. He’s one of my favorite actors, and always will be. He is wrong, the Academy is wrong, and here is why. Genre doesn’t restrain a story, from excelling. It never has, and it never will. The Academy accepted this with Star Wars, ET, and rewarded it with LOTR. Why did they forget this? Things changed.

    The world of cinema changed. The box office got bigger, tent poles became more important, and the smaller pictures got weeded out. The smaller, more personal movies, became TV shows, or went to streaming services. There wasn’t really a place… bzzt. This didn’t happen, because Crazy Rich Asians is a thing, that exist. There are still small movies, that excel, and have excelled during the last ten years. Movies that have pushed the needle, but people like Hawke and the Academy want us to believe that they are few and far between, and that’s bullshit.

    Hawke is wrong, because Logan is an exceptional movie. Black Panther, is an exceptional movie. Winter Soldier is an exceptional movie, Wonder Woman is an exceptional movie, and TDK is an exceptional movie. They aren’t threats to cinema. They are what defines cinema, and it’s not like they are shit either.

    If you agree with Hawke, then you have a limited idea of what those movies are, and SB does. His horror sensibilities, do not mesh with superheroes, and that’s fine. Doesn’t change the fact, that you can have exceptional horror films, have them nominated, and one win an Oscar… see a pattern here? The Academy, doesn’t think any genre is special, most of the time, except for human drama. Funny thing is, comic book movies, horror movies, and comedies feature more realistic moments of human-ness, than damn near any drama these goofs have rewarded in the last 14 years.

    Ethan Hawke is wrong, and he needs to call Julie Delphy. There’s work to be done.

  24. Stella's Boy says:

    Did you read it JS? He praises genre films. Talks about his love of Joe Dante and what he learned from him. It’s like no one else has even bothered to read the interview. They just know he said something about Logan.

  25. leahnz says:

    well this thread got me to read the interview, so booyah

    (hawke’s point is: it’s not what you do but how you do it; it’s not highbrow vs lowbrow but whether – whatever the genre – the material is executed with an artistic eye and verve, is it conceptually well designed and thematically meaningful/challenging/subversive/layered, trying for something beyond the safe and middling/mediocre with individuality and unique flavour, does it innovate. he’s not wrong)

  26. Stella's Boy says:

    Thank you leah. Well-said. That’s exactly right.

  27. leahnz says:

    my hawke paraphrasing mechanism is on-point

  28. Stella's Boy says:

    It is top-notch. :)

  29. amblinman says:

    “Says the person who hasn’t even read the interview in question. I love irony. Hey man whatever helps you cope with your anger. You should try, I don’t know, reading. It really helps. Bro.”

    What a schmuck.

  30. Stella's Boy says:

    “What a schmuck.”

    Says the tomfool.

  31. JS Partisan says:

    Yeah. I read the interview, and it’s snobby bullshit. Business interest is not about making LOGAN be viewed, as an exceptional movie. He’s wrong, the Academy is wrong, and anyone who agrees with him is wrong.

    What’s funny, is this is Ethan Hawke. He does shit fucking movie after shit fucking movie, and really hasn’t sniffed a great movie since Before Midnight. If you want to be a snob, then just state you are a snob. Doesn’t matter that popular thought is against you, and that ANY GENRE OF FILM CAN BE EXCEPTIONAL! This is why Disney have told the Oscars, to shove that popular Oscar in their asses. Black Panther better be a BP nom, better be leading in noms, and some of them non-technical. If not? Cue Seth’s music, “BURN IT DOWN!”

  32. Stella's Boy says:

    You always suggest popularity equals quality. That is wrong. Anyone who believes that is wrong.

    There are still so many movies yet to be released. It’s possible that there are 10 better movies than BP. Very possible. Some might argue that 10 better movies have already been released.

  33. Sideshow Bill says:

    I loved the interview. I’ve loved Ethan since EXPLORERS. He made THE PURGE and SINISTER, populist genre stuff. He never says he’s against it. I love SINISTER, and I think his performance in it is what makes that movie work so well. He always brings his A game.

    I can see both side of this. I love the superhero genre and believe they can be truly artful and important. But if I were to put down a list of my 25 most important films I don’t think there would be a superhero movie even close. Maybe not even in my top 50. BLACK PANTHER is a great movie, but it’ll never move me as much as BOOGIE NIGHTS or BLUE VELVET. And I say this with the complete admission that there would be tons of horror films in my top 50, which another marginalized genre.

    LOGAN was on my top 10 for the year. I think it’s fantastic. But I’ll watch LAST PICTURE SHOW or THERE WILL BE BLOOD 100 times before I watch LOGAN. I have to be in a particular mood.

    I’m not demeaning the genre. I love the hell out of it. But personally it’s a tier or 2 below what really shakes and affects me. I think that’s kind of what Hawke was getting at. It’s a PERSONAL thing.

  34. palmtree says:

    After reading this infernal interview that everyone is talking about, I think what Ethan Hawke is saying is that the phrase “great film” is really reserved for films that aren’t just good or fine, but that transcend their genre and their time. And I think what he’s saying about superhero films is that though they are good in their own way, they don’t quite hit the “great” mark. Again “great” not meaning merely “good” but meaning transcendent (or timeless classic).

    I’m of two minds about that, because I agree that “great” is thrown around a bit too much. But I do think that at its best the MCU does tackle great themes with great depth even if some of the filmmaking at times feels anonymous. Definitely getting Taika Waititi, James Gunn (hope he comes back), and Ryan Coogler went a long way to giving the MCU some personality. So they’re on the right track…let’s just hope they stick the landing.

  35. JS Partisan says:

    SB, and you think that’s wrong, is wrong. Some of the most popular movies, are the best movies. Sometimes, they are not, but a lot of time they are. Also, I don’t give a shit what you or the Academy feel could be ten better films, because guess what? THIS ISN’T ABOUT YOU! It’s about the public, that made Black Panther a 700m critical and beloved darling of a film. If it’s dismissed, then once again cue Seth’s music. Again, your genre prejudice is garbage.

    Here’s the thing that makes what Bill posted above bullshit: THEY ARE ALL FUCKING MAKE BELIEVE! THEY AREN’T REAL! THEY ARE ALL LIGHT PROJECTED AT A SCREEN AT 24FPS! The only line of demarcation between one genre and another genre’s ability to be GREAT, IS IN YOUR FUCKING MINDS!

    Seriously. I don’t want to use caps there, but this has always been the most absolutely BULLSHIT part of this blog. Where I am supposed to SEGREGATE MOVIES, because of the genre they existence in. Sorry, but that’s hot fucking garbage, and I will never fucking do it. Anyone who does do it, is a fucking snob, and if you want to be a snob. I will just shit talk you, because being a snob is a shitty fucking way to go through fucking life.

    And don’t come with the same bullshit arguments some of you have been using for OVER A DECADE! If you are a snob, then turn into your hate. I am not a snob, I love all film, and that’s how it should be. It shouldn’t be about a comic book movie, “HAVING TO EARN GREATNESS.” If a movie is great, then it’s great. That’s it. The end. Finito.

  36. Stella's Boy says:

    That BP grossed $700 million is not proof that it’s great and must be nominated for Best Picture. I don’t see how anyone can take issue with the claim that popularity is not in and of itself proof of quality. If not thinking like you makes me a snob then I am more than happy to be one.

  37. Bulldog68 says:

    I must have missed something. Since when are superhero movies been viewed as high art to the point where now someone needs to be telling people that they shouldn’t be viewed as high art?

    To the best of my recollection, after TDK, the only superhero movies even whispered about for Oscar Best Picture have been Logan, WW and BP.

    And while I agree with the sentiments of Hawke I take umbrage to the notion that a particular genre of movie could never be elevated to that status. Additionally all this high art conversation is in my mind code for white privilege indulgence. It’s why Out of Africa won over The Color Purple. Or Do the Right Thing wasn’t even nominated for BP in a year Dances with Wolves won. Art is what I say it is. Boyhood was boring. And no Terrance Malick movie has ever roused any emotion in me, none. I cried more for Han Solo being frozen in carbonite, than for anything that happened in The English Patient. If that’s high art, keep it. I want something that makes me feel.

  38. JS Partisan says:

    BD, we do not always agree, but I would hug and kiss you for that post. I will state though, that I can love Michael Clayton and Captain America: The Winter Soldier, and feel they both technically have the same ending.

    SB, if I wanted to have a log shoved up my ass, then the resulting thinking would end up being like yours. You once again want to make your little digs, but miss the point. Why? You do terrible research. Popular movies, are sometimes are best movies, and the Library of Congress saves them for that reason. Their popularity. One day. Black Panther will be in there, because of it’s greatness, and popularity.

    Seriously. I am not segregating films, because that’s just shitty.

  39. Stella's Boy says:

    I did not say a popular movie can’t be good or is never good. I said popularity does not automatically mean it’s good.

  40. Sideshow Bill says:

    And this is where you ALWAYS lose me, JS. You believe yourself to be final arbiter of what is and isn’t of value and therefore try and speak for each person on this blog. It’s not just craft and success and cultural influence. IT IS FUCKING EMOTION. IT IS A GUT FEELING. Everybody responds differently. When I walked out of, for example, THE WITCH, I was emotionally rattled and had a tingles and goosebumps. When I left BLACK PANTHER I was entertained and happy that I was entertained and was impressed that there were ideas in it. But it did not get me the way other films have done. Therefore how can you fucking tell me how I feel about a movie and what it means to ME? In the long run BLACK PANTHER is a blip. THE WITCH was an earthquake.

    You get so offended when people don’t agree with your viewpoints. You have an extremely fascist view of art. You refuse to accept disagreements. Also, you cherry pick your responses. OF COURSE there are plenty of popular entertainments in the Library if Congress. Wipe away your seething rage and re-read what I fucking wrote. I did not dismiss any genre at all of any film at all. What I said was that FOR ME superhero movies, while fun, are not as important. They are simply not as important to me. FIRST REFORMED is far more important to me than BP or AVENGERS. And I loved those movies. But they didn’t move me nearly as much as FIRST REFORMED or ANNIHILATION or HEREDITARY. Tell me I’m wrong about my feelings.

    You see, JS, different people value different things more than others. And that’s OK. I don’t think Hawke was making an authoritative statement. I think he was making a personal statement. An opinion.

    Why do you get so offended at differences in opinions?

    What happened to you?

  41. Sideshow Bill says:

    Actually, JS, it IS ABOUT “ME.” Oh, defender of the populace, please hear me. My opinions and emotions regarding art are nothing if not about me a solely me. Are you daft?

    You’re impossible. Impossible to engage with. Impossible to understand . Impossible to like.

    You make me want to burn my Marvel movies because being associated with the likes of you is embarrassing

  42. JS Partisan says:

    SB, I state the same thing fifteen times.

    Let’s deal with this now:

    “And this is where you ALWAYS lose me, JS. You believe yourself to be final arbiter of what is and isn’t of value and therefore try and speak for each person on this blog.”

    Am I speaking for anyone else? I do believe that I just wrote, “I am not segregating movies,” and this is push back to you all always think there is some sound logic in doing such. There isn’t, and I can state as much.

    “It’s not just craft and success and cultural influence. IT IS FUCKING EMOTION. IT IS A GUT FEELING. Everybody responds differently. When I walked out of, for example, THE WITCH, I was emotionally rattled and had a tingles and goosebumps. When I left BLACK PANTHER I was entertained and happy that I was entertained and was impressed that there were ideas in it. But it did not get me the way other films have done. Therefore how can you fucking tell me how I feel about a movie and what it means to ME? In the long run BLACK PANTHER is a blip. THE WITCH was an earthquake.”

    And again, I can state, that’s completely ridiculous to me. You, in your own head, are weighting one experience more than the other. Good for you. I am never going to SEGREGATE MOVIES!

    “You get so offended when people don’t agree with your viewpoints.”

    I love what I love, and will fight valiantly for it. Love what you fucking love, but don’t fucking state that I get offended, when I don’t care what you like. I don’t. If we both like something? YAY! If not? No sweat off my balls.

    “You have an extremely fascist view of art. You refuse to accept disagreements.”

    I like more different genre of films than any of you in here, and do not segregate them. They are all just movies. If anyone is a fascist. It’s SB, or even movieman. Who is hard fucking core about hating shit, and hardcore about what he loves. Also, what’s the disagreement? Hawke is full of shit, and it’s his specious logic the Academy are applying to films. It’s bullshit.

    “Also, you cherry pick your responses. OF COURSE there are plenty of popular entertainments in the Library if Congress. Wipe away your seething rage and re-read what I fucking wrote. I did not dismiss any genre at all of any film at all. What I said was that FOR ME superhero movies, while fun, are not as important. They are simply not as important to me. FIRST REFORMED is far more important to me than BP or AVENGERS. I loved those movies.”

    I read what you wrote, and for me, in my life… I would find it bullshit. Again, it’s all make believe, but some of you think one kind of make believe can be great, and the other cannot. That’s just weird to me. Also, I am not angry in any of this, so stop projecting on me, dude.

    “You see, JS, different people value different things more than others. And that’s OK. I don’t think Hawke was making an authoritative statement. I think he was making a personal statement. An opinion.

    Why do you get so offended at differences in opinions?

    What happened to you?”

    Bill, Hawke was trying to shit on something, that he doesn’t find important. You and SB, are also shitting on them, because they aren’t as important to you. Good for you, but I find your logic specious, and bullshit.

    Again, Bill, I’ve laid out my points succinctly, and without any haranguing. Try it sometimes.

    There’s also NOTHING MORE FUCKING HOT BLOG, then someone telling me I am angry, then being so angry they post what they did about burning movies. Don’t burn plastics. That’s not healthy.

  43. Hcat says:

    “This is why Disney have told the Oscars, to shove that popular Oscar in their asses.”

    Where in the hell did you get this idea? If any studio was behind the push for the category it would have been Disney who has been shut out of the race since they shut Miramax a decade ago.

    Look I don’t think anyone here is saying that a Superhero film CAN’T be oscar worthy, just that they HAVEN’T (and personally I think that changed with BP and will applaud if/when that is announced).

    Nobody is segregating movies. Saying that Fantastic Voyage didn’t deserve to be nominated doesn’t make me a snob against S-F movies, its just not 2001. Bridesmaids was a good popular movie, that I didn’t consider it an oscar quality film doesn’t make me a snob towards comedy, its just not the Apartment. This genre is still young and the cannon is still being written, the quality is getting better and taking more chances, it took decades before westerns got to Red River and Shane and started cementing themselves in the conversation of great films.

  44. JS Partisan says:

    HC, THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD USE SOCIAL MEDIA, FOR NEWS! Disney doesn’t want the Best Popular picture Oscar, and they are pushing BP for Best Picture. There are articles all over the internet from yesterday, that state this. They didn’t want another award, that would segregate their films, from BP contention. Why anyone would think this, is so damn strange. The whole point in all of this, is there are great movies that make hundreds of millions, to billions of dollars. Same Academy nominated fucking Avatar, but nothing for a decade. That’s just not rolling with the times.

    And your last paragraph is basically stating, “SOME FILMS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE OTHERS!” Yeah. Sorry. That’s? What the fuck is that? There’s quality, in terms of the money spent on production. Sure. Fantastic Voyage is still a pretty trippy exceptional film. It doesn’t hold a place of prestige like 2001, but 2001 wasn’t even reviewed all that well when it came out. So, what is prestige? Just another way to keep some movies down, and push some movies up.

    Does anyone here categorize the movies they own… oh yeah. I remember that. I am the only here, who has an extensive DVD/BD/UHD collection. Nevermind.

  45. Sideshow Bill says:

    So you’re trying to tell me I am wrong about how I experience and process art, JS? Maybe I have yet to see a superhero film that does for me what BOOGIE NIGHTS does. Or for that matter, HALLOWEEN, JAWS, GREMLINS, SPINAL TAP, THE THING and many other movies I find for emotionally and artistically satisfying.

    That’s the core of it. We experience art wrong. You are the only one who does it “correctly.”

    Just as an aside I bet there are people out there to whom JOE DIRT is more important than MOONLIGHT. And I’m fine with that. I just want people happy.

    I hope you find peace JS

  46. Sideshow Bill says:

    And I just don’t get how you think I’m “shitting” on them. I have said over and I like them. I go out and see them. I buy them. I still read comics.

    The fact that I like other movies more just gets you enraged

  47. JS Partisan says:

    Am I writing as an “enraged,” man? No. You are the one who stated you want to burn your movies. You are the one reading shit wrong, but you’re the good guy.

    Again, who gives a shit about your experiences? Who gives a shit about my experiences? This isn’t about fucking experiences. You once again get mad over shit, that I don’t give a shit about. I will make it simple for you.


    You are totally shitting on them. Oh you go and see them, but they are just sorta light and fluffy entertainment. Such faint and damning praise. Good job, good guy.

    And the only films that go out of there way to make themselves more seem more important… are award films. They don’t do it to just do it. They do it for two reasons, and two reasons only: earning AWARDS to make MONEY. Did James Mangold make Logan expecting or assuming, that he would get a nom? The same goes with Jordan Peele and Get Out. Nope. This is why Hawke’s whole line of thought is specious bullshit.

  48. Sideshow Bill says:

    “Again, who gives a shit about your experiences? Who gives a shit about my experiences? This isn’t about fucking experiences.”

    I deeply and fundamentally disagree with this, and I’d venture to say it’s the most misguided thing you’ve ever posted. All films live or die with you based on your personal experience with them. As does all art. How can you not see that?

    I actually find that statement kinda offensive, and kinda disappointing. I thought you were at least smarter than that. You take a persons personal
    experience with a film out of the equation and you’re left with nothing.

    I’m done with this. It’s a flat circle. You’re a stubborn, dense man.

  49. Sideshow Bill says:

    I’m sorry I didn’t spurt jizz on the screen when Thanos snapped his fingers. It didn’t mean as much to me as Tessa Thompson’s fate in ANNIHILATION. I guess that means I’m “shitting” on AVENGERS. Christ you’re obtuse.

  50. JS Partisan says:

    ONE LAST FUCKING TIME! You just proved my point. You segregate movies, in your mind, because you put one kind of film on a pedestal, and the other you do not. If you like both movies, then why is one more important than the other? Sure. It’s your taste, but you seem to make a distinction between THIS KIND of movie, and THAT KIND of movie. I find that ridiculous.

    Like I stated above: I love Michael Clayton, and I love The Winter Solider. Both movies, have, very similar fucking endings, and I would never go, “Well, Michael Clayton is more important, so how could I dare compare it to the lowly Winter Solider.” You, literally, just did what I think is fucking bullshit. You stated one movie, one kind of movie, is more important than the other. THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS DISCUSS IS… THEY ARE ALL MOVIES! Putting one good movie above another good movie, is just fucking weird. How is that confusing to you?

    This discussion is not a don’t care about what you like, or what movies you love. Good for you. Yay. It’s not about you, and your feelings, or mine. It’s about MOVIE A and MOVIE B, and for some reasons I see them as just MOVIES AB, and some of you see them as MOVIE A and MOVIE B.

    And I don’t care about where you jizz. No one does. You are dismissing people’s honest feelings though, when you state, “I could give a fuck about Thanos snapping his fingers.” You don’t, but it traumatized millions of people. If you don’t like something, then you don’t like something. You sure as shit shouldn’t think liking one kind of movie more than another, makes your fucking feelings more important. It doesn’t. It’s all opinion, I disagree with your opinion, and I am amazed that stating THEY ARE JUST MOVIES is lost on you.

    It’s like, people have had transcendent experiences watching any kind of movie, but do their experiences only matter when they are the RIGHT KIND OF MOVIE? Sure seems that way, and that right there is bullshit.

  51. Sideshow Bill says:

    You truly are an idiot. A blathering, rabid idiot. I don’t segregate anything in my mind. I just don’t happen to love superhero movies as much as you and this drives you fucking crazy. I can’t decide if it’s pathetic or hilarious.

    I feel sorry for you. You’re obviously not very smart or perceptive.. you put words in my mouth. Youtmad that I don’t experience the same emotions as you. Do you realize how mad that is.

    You need help. You are a giant man-child throwing fits when he doesn’t get his way.

  52. palmtree says:

    Man, I love superhero movies, especially MCU. But are they great? For me greatness must come in every single element operating at its best. And unfortunately you have to admit the musical scores on some of these movies are just anonymous. At least until recently.

    I’m super glad the Alan Silvestri theme is now being used more, but before that, it was really easy to criticize the MCU for their lack of musical identity.

    Obviously it’s getting better now with really great scores for Black Panther and Avengers Infinity Wars and Thor Ragnarok. So don’t get me wrong, that was one reason those 3 films are modern classics in my view.

    So even though talking about film scores may sound nitpicky, I think the word “great” is just one of those nitpicky words that means “great in every way” and not just a fantastic movie that was fun and emotionally satisfying.

  53. JS Partisan says:

    Bill, stop being a whiny bitch. Blah. Blah. Blah. Did you burn your movies? You could have sold them! THINK OF THE MONIES! Seriously. It’s ridiculous to get this angry. It’s also ridiculous, that you people keep on thinking it’s about comic book movies, and that hating them is hurtful to me. Doesn’t hurt me one bit, but it makes the discussions really one note.

    Palm, the whole reason why a popular Oscar and Hawke’s logic is specious, is because both of them are stating only certain types of films give the proper type of emotional response. This is the same logic they have used to keep great comedies from being nominated, and the same goes with horror films. It’s a very waspy view of cinema, that has made the Academy Awards less meaningful than the Teen Choice Awards.

  54. Pete B. says:

    Seth Rollins…? PUH-lease.
    All the cool kids watch Lucha Underground now.

  55. Stella's Boy says:

    I saw two movies yesterday and have thoughts. Skyscraper was one of my most anticipated movies of the summer. Sure it looked derivative, but I like The Rock and figured it would make for a good matinee. Wow it’s terrible. It’s not even dumb fun. The building is cool and the visual effects pretty solid, but it’s so damn sappy and takes itself way, way too seriously. I paid $1.50 to see it at a second-run theater and feel like I overpaid.

    Then I watched First Reformed. Two-thirds of it is fantastic and as good as the hype suggests. Hawke is remarkable and it thoughtfully wrestles with some compelling issues. But it falls apart in the end. I didn’t buy the radical transformation or the final moments at all. It’s still a very good movie, but I wish it had stuck the landing.

  56. JS Partisan says:

    Pete, hasn’t been that popular in 3 years, and Ricochet is in NXT.

    SB: Yeah.

    Quick question: Elizabeth Olsen’s new show is on Facebook. Does anyone here want to watch a show on Facebook? It just seems so weird, that Facebook wants me to watch TV shows on it. I hate Facebook as it is. Why would I want to spend more time on it? Streaming is just so fucking weird.

  57. amblinman says:

    “Palm, the whole reason why a popular Oscar and Hawke’s logic is specious, is because both of them are stating only certain types of films give the proper type of emotional response. This is the same logic they have used to keep great comedies from being nominated, and the same goes with horror films. It’s a very waspy view of cinema, that has made the Academy Awards less meaningful than the Teen Choice Awards.”

    Amen, JS. Anyone who legit loves movies, gets this.

  58. Stella's Boy says:

    Blumhouse made a show for Facebook and it got some decent reviews but I just don’t want to watch a show on Facebook. They started airing MLB games this year and I tried watching one because that was the only way to see it. I lasted about an inning. It was awful. I don’t want to watch any TV on Facebook.

  59. palmtree says:

    JS, of course I agree we shouldn’t limit appreciation based on genre or pedigree. But the point is some genres have specific problems, such as trying to make a billion dollars and sell toys, that may lead to less optimal filmmaking decisions. Frankly, it just fills me with wonder that these films are even good at all.

  60. Hcat says:

    I want to ask you guys about Ragnorak, I heard all the praise and love, and when I saw it I get what people love, but I could not get past it not being the sum of its parts. First its two entirely different movies, one a traditional Thor battle for the crown/sins of the father that gets abandoned for a Guardians style romp. It sort of acknowledges that Thor movies are inherently dull after awhile and its a hell of a lot more interesting to simply make a dayglow version of Planet Hulk (which I believe was much darker and morose than what transcribed onscreen). They sorta tied them together for Thor’s character arc, but from a story telling perspective its a frickin mess.

    And that kind of goes into what we might be talking about here. It was by far the best Thor movie, and probably the most fun superhero movie there is. But does being better (even so much better) than the routine elevate it to great or as Palmtree states modern classic status?

  61. Stella's Boy says:

    I know this won’t surprise anyone, but fuck it. I didn’t like Ragnorak. After all the hype and vociferous praise, when I finally got around to watching it at home I expected a lot more than I got. Yeah it’s funny at times and it’s certainly not terrible, but in the end I didn’t find it to be anything special. It still felt like a pretty typical Marvel movie to me in many ways. Overblown, overstuffed, way too long. I got bored and didn’t care. I wasn’t invested in anything. I give it a C.

  62. palmtree says:

    My appreciation of Thor Ragnarok might hinge on how much I want to see an 80s synthwave-y send-up of Flash Gordon with some really funny bits and topped off with a discussion of colonialism. For me, that works like gangbusters.

  63. JS Partisan says:

    Palm, this may surprise you, but I am not sure making billions of dollars is Kevin Feige’s and Co. goal. Sure. It fucking helps, but they are going to make three Ant-Man movies, and they will probably make combined what Black Panther made once. Also, the toys are still in Ike’s domain, but they have more of a say then they used to have. But again, do you see what you did there? You automatically assume, they aren’t making the best decisions, because they have other metrics to hit, and they don’t. Point out to me their merchandising blitz when the movies come out? They put out stuff, but it’s not the most important thing. Never has been.

    SB, kids in China love those movies, but please feel free to shit on the enjoyment they get in their government controlled lives. Just shit all over it :D!

    HC, the first Thor is still the best Thor, but I just love Thor. Again, do not get it twisted, but you have to somehow just dig the shit out of Thor’s set of characters to enjoy their adventures. Thor, is the most, “YOU HAVE TO REALLY LOVE THIS SHIT,” character in the entire MSCU. I get the movie not working for folks, because Thor doesn’t work for everyone. Personally? It will suck to see Hemsworth go, but here’s hoping Mjolnir ends up in the hands of Jane Foster.

  64. Sideshow Bill says:

    I’ll state it in the simplest terms possible for you JS because you seem to have some sort of cognizant dissonance going on:

    I, Sideshow Bill, have yet to see a superhero movie I like more than a whole lot of other movies. Has nothing to do with genre. I like all genres. I –meaning me, Bill, a sole person with a singular POV, just like you —
    do not like WONDER WOMAN more than BABY DRIVER. You may disagree with me and point out why you like X more than Y, but it doesn’t make either of us more right.

    I HAVE NOT SEEN A SUPERHERO MOVIE I HOLD IN SUCH HIGH REGARD. Why is that hard to understand? Why does that make me “wrong”? It doesn’t, only in your warped brain.

    And never, ever mentioned the Oscars. I could a give a flying fuck about them. They completely snubbed THE WITCH, ZODIAC and many other films I love. But I don’t care because I still have the films.

    You’re trying to create a villain where there isn’t one. You’re complicating the debate like some cinema SJW. Or hell, you sound very Trumpian. “If you’re not 100% with Marvel movies than you’re 100% against them.”

    That’s not how reality works, kiddo. Try joining us in reality. It’s pretty cool.

  65. Stella's Boy says:

    My kids love them too JS. I have seen more of the MCU than I ever thought I would because of them. I guess it’s not surprising that kids want to watch superhero movies. I’ll just say that repeat viewings have only cemented my feelings about them.

  66. Hcat says:

    Palm, As a kid Flash Gordon was my favorite movie until Beastmaster took the title. And I loved Blanchett in it and how she attacked the role.

    JS, there are things I appreciate about the Thor movies over the other Marvels. They certainly have a larger cast, better villians, and more to work with in terms of epicness than say Iron or Ant Man. When you say you love the characters, was the Thor in Ragnorak anything like the Thor in comics? I haven’t read a comic in years so the portrayal might have changed but I never took him to be a cocky grinned wise cracking type that showed up in Ragnorak. The Thor from his first two appearances seems closer to what I would expect him to be but now it feels, at least to me, that half the leads are morphing into the same guy. That Star-lord, Ironman, Ant-man, and Thor are all cut from the same exact cloth. I have no problem with them advancing the character, but did you recognize the grinning “I know him from work” guy as what you know as Thor?

  67. YancySkancy says:

    Support the Girls is available on demand; I know because I watched it via iTunes a couple of nights ago and loved it. Guess it doesn’t help the box office though.

  68. palmtree says:

    “But again, do you see what you did there? You automatically assume, they aren’t making the best decisions, because they have other metrics to hit, and they don’t.”

    JS, dude, I wasn’t talking about the MCU, but big budget movies in general. I don’t know how many more ways I need to say I love the MCU movies.

    And no, I haven’t assumed anything. I’ve worked in the film industry, and I know this kind of (horrible) thinking is absolutely what goes on. It’s one of the sad realities. That Feige has been able to craft something this genuine in such a commercial environment is an astonishing achievement that I do hope one day is honored somehow.

  69. movieman says:

    Yancy- I noticed that “Girls” was just added to my cable’s On Demand menu yesterday.
    Definitely planning to watch it this weekend.
    It looks terrific, and I’m a big Bujalski fan.

  70. Jspartisan says:

    SB, I was just teasing about how hard you hit it with a bat . It cracked me up.

    Hc, they mix Thor up a lot these days, but Ragnorok is very much, a more modern comic version of the character.

    Bill, such a good guy.

    Palm, I get it, but the narrative with MARVEL STUDIOS had never been, “WE’VE GOTS TO MOVE MERCH,” like other franchises.

  71. JS Partisan says:

    Bill. re-reading your thing, because I read it on the phone before. You are seriously not having the same discussion that I am, because we just aren’t having the same argument. You think, this is some personal thing against you not liking Marvel Studios movies. While also thinking, that all I care about is you disliking the Marvel Studios movies.

    Again, my argument, is that Hawke is using the same logic that the Academy is using, and I find that logic to be faulty. Again, I do not care about your personal taste, because that’s you. You go with it. What I care about, is the Academy, and a member like Hawke, stating a comic book film cannot generate something genuine and honest like other types of films. It’s just specious logic, and it’s bullshit. It’s stating the most popular kinds of films, aren’t creating genuine emotion, and that’s once again ignoring that every film ever made… outside of some docs, is make believe.

    Seriously. Things got out of hand, because we literally were having two different conversations. You were having a personal one, and I was having one about the stupid fucking popular Oscar.

  72. Bulldog68 says:

    It’s very simple to me, by saying a particular type of movie, any type of movie, could never be viewed as a great movie solely because it belongs to a particular genre is wrong.

    You can piss on superhero movies all you want, Logan was a better movie than much of the Oscar bait that winds it’s way to the cineplex and art houses. By that standard, does Hawke think that Mad Max didn’t deserve it’s Oscar nom? Which also raises the argument of whether Mad Max would get a BP nom or Popular nom if it were released next year.

    It seems like this Art Clubhouse has room for only so many members. Black people had to fight for cameras that were originally calibrated to only shoot white people effectively, to be redone so that our tone can be captured effectively. Women are still clamouring to be let in to the Directors club, after they had to fight to stop being cast as only “the girl” in movies. Look at the Supporting Actor nominees from 1989 and tell me that aside from eventual winner Kevin Kline and maybe River Phoenix in Running on Empty, that any of those other performances surpassed Alan Rickman in Die Hard.

    If it’s not Action, it’s SciFi, or Fantasy, or Horror, or now Superhero, being told they not strong enough, or fast enough, or artsy enough. I just wish people would stop prejudging shit before it even drops.

    Panther came out in February. There’s still 10 months of movies to get through. I won’t say it belongs there yet. And I fucking hate seeing ads for a movie released in March that says “the best movie of the year”. Fucking Hate it.

    Any movie can be art. That’s my rant.

  73. leahnz says:

    “It’s very simple to me, by saying a particular type of movie, any type of movie, could never be viewed as a great movie solely because it belongs to a particular genre is wrong.”

    apologies in advance if i missed something trying to catch up on/parse everything going in this thread since i read it last, but who is saying this?
    (not hawke, who kind of says the opposite ultimately)

    OT, river’s sublime turn as ‘danny pope’ is truly one for the ages (esp considering he taught himself to play the piano for the role). his super stoked reaction on the oscar telecast for kevin K, who won the best sup actor oscar they were both nom’ed for, after working with him in ‘i love you to death’, is classic.
    also alan rickman don’t need no stinking oscar, hans gruber goes down in history as one of the greatest cinematic villains of all time and that’s what counts

  74. Bulldog68 says:

    Nobody “needs” an Oscar. But the mere fact that your words “hans gruber goes down in history as one of the greatest cinematic villains of all time ” is echoed by what most certainly be millions of film lovers, and this isn’t about popularity, it’s about performance, is at the crux of the argument. Is it any less artful than Daniel Day Lewis in My Left Foot, or one of his other movies that is a critics darling but I was totally disappointed by, There Will Be Blood? Sorry, watching that was laborious to me.

  75. leahnz says:

    so if i’m reading you right, you’re baffled and annoyed by the snobbery of critics/awards bodies in their failure to consider and reward outstanding performances in/and craft of movies in genres outside their relatively narrow and relentless focus on ‘prestige dramas’, done so with a seemingly sheep-like mentality?
    (if so, welcome to the party pal! haha)
    what is art – and what is ‘deserving’ – is so subjective

    (ETA if i remember bulldog you also rather disliked ‘the master’, so maybe PTA is just not your cup of tea)

  76. JS Partisan says:

    This century, there have been about 140 best picture nominees. Guess how many of those are about a different ethnicity than caucasian, or feature stories about different ethnicities? 15. That’s it.

    Just look at this decade. There’s slightly more diversity, but it’s so damn fucking white. Rather the Academy, or Hawke, get it or not. Putting popular films aside from the regular best picture nominees, is just fucking segregation. It’s literally putting stories, that are usually about more than just the whites getting shit done, on their own island away from the, “IMPORTANT FAIRE.”

    Black Panther’s reaction, and people rightfully feeling it’s one of the best movies of the year. Led to the Academy, in a moment of fear, creating an award that keeps doing the same damn thing they’ve been doing for years: putting movies that they don’t find to be SERIOUS in another gilded cage like the animation award.

  77. palmtree says:

    It’s fascinating that when we think of Spielberg doing Oscar-bait, we think of Schindler’s List and The Color Purple.

    But his first three movies nominated for Best Picture were actually Jaws, Raiders, and ET, all genre movies that aren’t supposed to be taken seriously. They’d never be nominated today!

    That was before the relentless machinery of awards season really took over, so there’s truth to the sheep-like mentality of today’s Oscar season. But some of these old nominations are kinda trippy.

  78. Hcat says:

    Palmtree, why would they not be nominated today? Do you really think that is a movie came out and did today’s equivalent of what ET did and hade the same cultural impact it would not get a best picture nom? Or Raiders? Gladiator and Lord of the Rings and Argo can get wins, Gravity and Mad Max get nominations but you think if something hit like Jaws did it would be ignored?

    I would say that every nominated picture I saw this year was a better picture by any standard than Logan, but this again goes to just how silly it is to put all these in a horse race, or treat awards as endall/bealls. The Oscars are a PR exercise.

  79. JS Partisan says:

    Not one of those movies are as good as Logan. Not a single one, because Logan takes a universal truth: you get old, you will fail, and you will die, and puts it on this grand canvas of… Wolverine. Wolverine, is a better fictional character, than 90 percent of all fictional characters ever created. Seriously. This dismissing of some of the most popular characters in fiction is just so silly.

    HC, Fury Road is most insane nomination of this decade, but it’s George Miller. He’s really respected in that body, so there’s that nomination. Nevertheless, none of those films would be nominated today for best picture. Jesus Christ. Did you miss that they are making a MOST POPULAR PICTURE Oscar, because they are so afraid of the Academy’s inability to nominate popular films? Ethan Hawke is not alone with his attitudes, because you just displayed them. You are of that age, and your age doesn’t find value in what kids today do, and that’s why the Academy and the Oscars are pointless. They kept relying on the fossils, and ignoring the age and gender gaps happening in this world.

  80. palmtree says:

    HC, Actually, in support of your second statement, I would say Logan is much more similar to Mad Max Fury Road, LOTR, Argo, or Gladiator in the sense that they are genre movies with an eye on getting awards credibility. The Shape of Water is in that category too. Jaws probably comes closest to being actual awards bait because at its heart it’s a pretty serious Ibsen-esque drama.

    But I think a far better example you were looking for is Get Out, which doesn’t feel like it’s made for awards but is a kickass jump scare movie that also makes really incisive points about race and justice. So yeah, occasionally the Academy does get it right (probably with a lot of help from activists though too).

    But it’s hard for me to believe that Spielberg directed a James Bond, matinee serial movie to get awards attention. And ET was far less serious and more child-friendly than his other more serious and ambitious alien movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Raiders and ET don’t play to me like awards bait even if they are absolute masterpieces.

  81. Sideshow Bill says:

    JS, we’re cool. You’re passionate.

    I just think you keep missing where I say, over and over, that I love the superhero genre. But taken film by film, I don’t prefer any of them over many, many other films. None have punched me in the gut like other films have. Yet I admire and respect them as art and entertainment. I saw Deadpool 2 three days after my cheating girlfriend left me and it helped me recover. They have value.

    Maybe I’m not explaining things well enough because I’m coming at it from a personal standpoint, not a formal one. I can admire a supremely crafted movie like BLACK PANTHER and still prefer ANNIHILATION. There’s nothing wrong or offensive about that. And I’ll even throw you a bone here: I hope BP gets nominated and I think Jordan should get a supporting actor nod.

    You lose me when you seem to try and claim a detached, impartial fact about art. I resist that. I understand rhetoric and arguing from an authoritative viewpoint. I just don’t like it. Emotion is such a big part of all art for me. HALLOWEEN is my favorite film. I don’t care that it’s flawed, has some bad acting, logic gaps, continuity errors. I love it because it is in my heart for a so many reasons: craft, nostalgia, remembering how it terrified my mother lol. I forgive and even love it’s flaws.

    I will re-read your posts out of respect. Maybe I did miss your point but you missed mine too.

  82. Sideshow Bill says:

    I wish we could post pictures. I would post a pic of the superhero section of my Blu Rays. Marvel, DC… I even own X-Men:Apocalypse. And Justice League. Yes, I own the DC Snyderverse. Even Spider-Man 3. For which I take a ton of shit from friends.

    I would also post my unfinished Michael Myers tattoo, which will be kick ass when I get it finished next month

  83. Hcat says:

    That sounds cool, then you can get eight more Myers Tattoos, than have all but the original one removed and get another.

  84. Sideshow Bill says:

    HCAT….,that made me laugh heartily

  85. YancySkancy says:

    Did Arizona, starring Danny McBride and Rosemarie De Witt, make the chart? It opened at an AMC here, and we watched it on iTunes. It doesn’t quite work, but there are good things about it, chiefly De Witt’s performance and the photography of a near-deserted fictional Arizona suburb circa the housing bust of the late aughts.

  86. Sideshow Bill says:

    And JS I have to admit…sometimes I just like argue. I believe everything I said. I wasn’t trolling. But you can be fun to spar with. You know your stuff.

    I may have told the story before but after my wife died in November 2013 one of the first things we did for fun a few weeks later was going to see Thor 2, me and my youngest daughter who was 11. I know it’s not regarded as a porn movie but at the time we had a blast and it really helped toward healing and getting us going for the holidays. Ever since then the Marvel movies have been a thing for me and her to do every year we’ve seen every single one since the work to and we look forward to seeing more. They are a bonding thing for us. She’s 16 now in learning to drive and I don’t know how many more Marvel movies I’ll have it with her I know she’s excited about aqua man because she thinks what’s his face is hot. So those movies do mean something to me beyond just being movies they mean a lot to me in fact. And I do consider them art. I did not deny it. All films are art even bad ones I could make an argument that the Waterboy is Art. I’m not gonna try but I could. There have been other movies that are provided healing moments and things like that for me but the Marvel movies always hold a special spot for me. Between Thor the dark world and Deadpool 2 they’ve done a lot for me so there you go.

    Peace bro.

  87. JS Partisan says:

    Thanks, Bill.


    And Crazy Rich Asians is showing Dave everyday, that it is indeed a special kind of movie.

  88. palmtree says:

    Mojo projects a 3-day weekend for the THIRD weekend of Crazy Rich Asians…at $25 million. Holy mother, that’s a zero percent drop.

    DP, I await your thoughts when the estimates come in.

  89. Hcat says:

    Was David handicapping the potential success? I am missing why CRA is such a shot against him?

  90. palmtree says:

    Hc, it’s not a shot against him. It’s just weird that we haven’t had full weekend analyses from DP in CRA’s first two weekends (only Friday analyses).

    It’s especially weird since he’s always on about how nothing interesting is happening, and then when something interesting does happen, he’s silent.

    Of course, I’m sure he’s busy doing his own thing, so it’s not a knock necessarily. I’m just expressing my wish that he comments on these things. Asking never hurts.

  91. Bulldog says:

    Go back and read Dave’s Friday Estimates of Aug 18th Hcat. Now nothing he said was wrong, but it’s the silence afterward that has some firing a few shots at him. CRA seemingly heading north of $175m is a phenom, much like Get Out, and A Quiet Place, and The Help, which it is being compared to and surpassing.

    Many had it pegged for success, but it’s exceeding even those expectations.

  92. JS Partisan says:

    No. He poo-pooed it, like it was something hyped up, that didn’t really preform. It’s going to have, quite possibly, a ZERO PERCENT DROP THIS WEEKEND! Infinity War making 2bn in the Summer? That’s a story. Black Panther, making 700m? Hell of a story. I cannot think of a movie, in the history of this blog, that has ever had a ZERO PERCENT DROP OFF, IN IT’S THIRD WEEKEND! It’s one of the most amazing box office stories IN
    BOX OFFICE HISTORY, but Dave just thought, “It didn’t make 40 million opening weekend. No story here.” It’s another example in the long list, of Dave missing the point, and the bigger picture.

  93. Tom Reagan's Hat says:

    This was David on Twitter earlier this week: “Ocean’s 8 & Crazy Rich Asians are on a very close box office trajectory. CRA will pass $100m on Saturday & should do about $20m for the 4-day. It is a legit success & should not be expected to break records to prove it. The win matters. Exaggerating it doesn’t help.”

    He definitely has a blind spot for CRA… not sure why. It took Ocean’s 8 a full month to make as much as CRA will in less than two weeks. And Ocean’s 8 dropped by more than 50% in its second weekend while CRA is barely dropping at all in its third. Nobody is exaggerating the phenomenon of CRA.

  94. Sideshow Bill says:

    Earlier in the Summer he seemed to be in it’s corner. He kept bringing it up as a late Summer sleeper. At least that’s how I took it.

  95. palmtree says:

    Ocean’s 8? Oh man, that’s really off the mark. Ocean’s 8 is only at $140m. On the other hand, Mojo is comparing it to Bridesmaids and The Help and The Proposal, all over $160m and all of which CRA is currently either equaling or running ahead of. So…

    AND if exaggerating a success isn’t good, downplaying a success doesn’t automatically make you better either.

    I think DP is rooting for CRA as a diversity issue, but it seems like DP has a thing against people constructing a popular narrative of any sort. And I get the desire to be contrarian, but still, don’t be wrong either.

  96. uhhhhhh says:

    OCEAN’S 8 = a sequel to massively successful films starring a ton of mainstream movie stars

    CRAZY RICH ASIANS = not that

  97. palmtree says:

    ^^^THAT TOO!

  98. JS Partisan says:

    Yeah. Dave is just off the reservation with CRA, but he always has blind spots. He also, seems to be digging in his heels on this one, and it’s always weird when he acts this way.

  99. Hcat says:

    Gee, reading these responses I wonder why he is no hurry to weigh in.

  100. JS Partisan says:

    I go after him on twitter, and he goes right back at me. Do you not remember the Inception threads? This is how we go in this blog, and we all want to discuss this movie with him.

  101. palmtree says:

    Hc, honestly I’d think he’d be excited to chime in given how “crazy rich” things are right now, breaking precedents and possibly setting new ones in the industry. As a journalist, wouldn’t you live for moments like this?

  102. leahnz says:

    i hope ‘leave no trace’ makes some dosh at the cinema, what a gem (seen it twice now). after all my bellyaching for more granik these past years she comes through with the goods.
    wouldn’t it be nice if actual good directors could make the movies for a change and the mediocre, ‘competent’ hacks could sit it out and contemplate other careers

  103. JS Partisan says:

    Ant-Man and the Wasp is going to make six hundred million dollars. It may even make a hundred million more than the previous film, so that mean it has SOME AUDIENCE GROWTH! WOO!!!!

  104. palmtree says:

    DP on Twitter: “A 10% third weekend drop for Crazy Rich Asians is extraordinary, even with the holiday.”

  105. fatima m. says:

    Hello David Poland, if you do a new interview with Olivier Assayas for Non Fiction could you ask him about his third project with Kristen Stewart please? When is he planning to make it? And if he can say anything about the story, if it’s a drama, comedy or period? Last year he said in an interview that he was writting a new script for her so I am curious to hear what’s up with that.

  106. movieman says:

    The most baffling flop of the (Labor Day) weekend is “The Little Stranger” which actually had an even lower PSA than the second weekend of last weekend’s disaster, “A.X.L.” (The fact that “Stranger” was on fewer than a third the number of screens as “A.X.L.” makes its performance even more embarrassing.)
    Not sure what went wrong here.
    Great cast; a recently Oscar-nominated director; an exploitable (Gothic haunted house) genre that works more often than not; decent reviews; well-regarded source material; a normally savvy distributer…
    Did Focus over or undershoot? Should they have opened on a mere handful of screens in NY and L.A., or gone uncharacteristically (say, 1,800-2,000 screens) wide right out of the gate?
    I’m mystified.

  107. palmtree says:

    MM, the trailers for Little Stranger didn’t make it seem very commercial, but more like scary Downton Abbey. And wasn’t Crimson Peak, another period costume horror flick, basically a flop too? That one had an even bigger director behind it (Del Toro). Not sure what they’d expect from this other than Oscar buzz.

  108. movieman says:

    I don’t know, Palm. I was pretty psyched and looked forward to seeing it last weekend.
    I would have definitely seen it before “Operation Finale” (just OK), “Kin” (ugh) or even “Searching” (which I really liked). Naturally “Stranger” didn’t open anywhere near me, lol.
    Hope it makes a fast trip to home video.

  109. JS Partisan says:

    Of course the Academy pressed pause on the popular Oscar today. It was too stupid an idea, and Disney wasn’t going to play along. What does all this mean? It means the nominating, or not nominating of Black Panther for Best Picture is a referendum on the future of the Academy Awards. If Black Excellence isn’t celebrated and rewarded, then the Academy Awards better get ready to stream exclusively on YouTubeTV, because that Award show will be over.

    They did this to themselves, and they get what they get. I will hold with my previous statement: they aren’t going to give Black Panther jack or shit, and that’s just going to lead to the Academy becoming more of a joke, and even less important.

  110. Glamourboy says:

    I wasn’t surprised that they found a semi-graceful way of bowing out of the Popular Film award–it was a universally hated idea. I still absolutely believe that Black Panther is going to get a Best Pic nomination. I watched the movie on Netflix yesterday and even on the small screen it was fantastic.

    I’m dying to talk to someone about Searching…a film that I really liked but had some weird day after feelings about. The movie tries to be David Lynch dark and Disney light…it has that odd tug to it.

  111. Hcat says:

    So Searching is the Straight Story?

    Still processing the Burt news, but Christ the obit in the Post is a total hit job. If I were Bruce Willis or Adam Sandler I would be worried,

    For better or for worse the guy was a titan like we will never see again in the iP driven industry. And it’s not because he didn’t make crap it was because he made crap work. There is no way Smokey, White Lightning and Hooper should work as movies but he carried them all effortlessly.

  112. palmtree says:

    Let’s all talk Searching. New Searching thread? Oh wait, we haven’t had a new thread since…2 weeks ago.

    Alright, so Searching…the spoiler free version: awesome first half, second half a little less awesome.

  113. Pete B. says:

    I actually liked KIN.

  114. GSpot 3000 says:

    Agree with Palm on Searching. That first half is so clever in its execution — The movie does an amazing job of wringing both warmth and dead from a computer screen…that last section…not so much…with the exception of that wonderful final, movie ending beat summing things up (keeping it vague for spoilers). It’s all so cinematic and yet ANTI-cinematic at the same time. Worth the watch.

  115. Glamourboy says:


    The movie has a great dark premise…a man finds that he doesn’t know anything about his daughter’s life…and it brings in great plot twists that suggest that she has taken on another identity, been stealing money from her father, might be having an affair with her Uncle….but then it boomerangs back from each of those possibilities–always keeping the daughter this sweet, innocent girl…its as if the filmmakers just can’t go to the dark world that they are skirting. I was impressed that they were going to end the film with the daughter being dead….but of course they couldn’t go there either. Did anyone else notice the big clue in the opening…the school that the daughter attends is ‘home of the catfish’….?

  116. palmtree says:

    Glamour, (ALSO SPOILERS)

    …Related to that was my issue was with them handing out dark explanations and then retracting them. One too many red herrings. And plus, the need for these plot devices began to strain the premise of being entirely viewed through screens. I still enjoyed the hell out of this movie, but the form did begin to call attention to itself.

    Also, there’s an Easter egg video with a bunch of cool little details you might have missed. There’s even a clue that this movie is in the Unfriended universe.

  117. Michael Bergeron says:

    what is the clue that Searching is in the Unfriended universe .. asking for a friend?

  118. jbritt says:

    Can we get some box office analysis for Nun, etc …

  119. Hcat says:

    Nun is looking like it will open higher than anything else in the franchise. Must be a fun month to be working at Warners.

  120. Glamourboy says:

    Has anyone seen Nun? BF wants to see it but I no of no one who has seen it or wants to…..RT score is looooow

  121. movieman says:

    G-Boy: I’ve run cold and lukewarm on the “Conjuring” franchise, but I was actually looking forward to “The Nun,” hoping for some good, old-fashioned
    nuns-ploitation. Alas, it fails to deliver on even that meager level.
    There are admittedly some striking visuals (you could make the case that it’s better directed than…well, pretty much everything else about it), but the whole thing is so pokily paced, thuddingly predictable and UNSCARY that it nearly lulled me to sleep.
    I also don’t understand the “R” rating.
    It’s “PG-13″ at best: no gore, no sex/nudity, no profanity. A total snooze.

  122. leahnz says:

    there’s nothing wrong with ‘searching’ being about an ordinary, sweet but lonely kid and her doting but reserved/uptight dad’s serious unprocessed grief issues (and turning it into some low-grade 8MM would just be a tired cliche and a cop-out, so good on em for keeping to a story about ultimately ordinary people caught up in a bizarre circumstance as the premise to examine the lack of connection between a grieving father/child, in contrast to a deeply disturbing, enabling parent/child relationship that culminates in violence and deception), it’s just a bit average in the writing and direction in patches but the performances compensate for it. it’s a story about moving through grief to a better place and her dying at the end would not have worked, it’s a happy/family movie

  123. Sideshow Bill says:

    The reviews for The Nun are keeping me home. I’ll watch it at home some night.

    The Predator, however, I’m seeing despite the reviews. I love monsters and it sounds like there’s enough mayhem to keep me entertained.

    The sex offender thing? Completely misguided decisions by Black but I don’t think he did it with dark intent. He SHOULD have disclosed it. Inexcusable. Fox made the right decision cutting him out and Shane needs to distance himself. I all for rehabilitation and stuff but sex offenders….yuck. That’s just a slipyslopr I hope I’m never on.

    One last thing: the thread seems to be the last stand for The Hot Blig. This is our Alamo. I’ll be proud to go down alongside you all.

  124. leahnz says:

    nearer my god to thee

    what is this sex offender thing? crikey maybe it’s better i don’t know, everything is so depressing

  125. palmtree says:


    The Unfriended connection is that Laura Barns is a trending topic on a page in Searching. I don’t think that’s a real spoiler because if you haven’t seen that movie that name won’t mean anything to you. Also, both movies have the same producer Timur Bekmambetov.

  126. JS Partisan says:

    Leah, Black keeps hiring his sex offender friend, because he thinks his friend’s crime wasn’t that serious. The moment Munn found out, that she had a scene with this guy. She told FOX, and they cut the scene. Black, because he’s a white and powerful man in Hollywood, would still put his sex offender friend in movies, because of course he would. The Predator, is apparently shit, because of course it is. Predators deserved a sequel, but it’s what the fuck ever.

  127. leahnz says:

    yeah my little grey cell factions had a fight in my brain — ‘ignorance is bliss!’ vs ‘knowledge is power!’ — and i ended up looking it up, ick
    (black’s weak-ass “i believed my friend’s dumb self-serving version of events rather than asses the testimony/heinous crime/conviction based on reality” excuse is sounding aweeeefully familiar after hearing some version of it now for the kazzilionth time, christ on a cracker these fucking guys. good on munn for speaking up, i wish i could say it was shocking that her duderino castmates didn’t have her back, nor a backbone to speak of, but who are we kidding, sisters doin’ it for themselves)

  128. Pete B says:

    Well, the film is called “The Predator”. We just all thought it was about aliens.

    Kudos to Olivia.

  129. Glamourboy says:

    Surprise, surprise…The Nun is an unholy mess. Or even better…a one word review…Nunsense.

    One dimensional characters battle demonic, zombie nuns. It is one of those films where the main characters encounter something fucking weird..yet they never even discuss leaving. Their decisions are based more on the impending length of the film rather than holding any logic at all. But a few people in the theater applauded after the film finished….so I might be in the minority.

    The only good to come out of this situation….bf is banished to movie hell…after he chose this and The Happytime Murders, I get to choose the movies for the next few months.

  130. movieman says:

    You can’t say that I didn’t warn you, G-Boy, lol.
    There was a lot of aisle hopping to-and-fro during the screening I attended.
    No screaming teenage girls (followed by the nervous laughter of their friends) which is standard audience participation schtick for this type of B-horror; just stone cold silence.
    I’m guessing they were all asleep.

  131. Glamourboy says:

    The teenagers in the row in front of me texted the entire time….unfortunately I saw it before I saw your posting, Movieman….I often find my opinions on movies connecting with yours…so I would have listened.

  132. movieman says:

    Ugh, texting, G-Boy!
    That and the interminable “pre-show” are the bane of the 21st century theatrical experience.

  133. Hcat says:

    Holy shit just heard On the radio that Moonves got the boot. This is likely even bigger than Lasseter being shown the door. It’s remarkable and heartening that people at the highest rung can eventually be brought down. I hope all the other slime balls are sweating through the night waiting to be called out. And more importantly idiots are thinking twice on behaving like this in the first place.

  134. movieman says:

    Hcat- Hear, hear!
    But sadly, the biggest slime ball and idiot of them all–Trump–remains unbeaten and unbowed.

    Please tell me that the clock has already begun ticking down to his ultimate banishment.

  135. Hcat says:

    One can only hope, perhaps the length of the investigation is reflective of the sheer amount of crimes they are uncovering. If they can find moneylaundering going back decades they could hit his business with a RICO case and seize all the assets of this stooge and his toxic family. But of course that is probably too pie in the sky.

    Of course this was Bill’s poisoning of the well with the same slimy behavior that allowed this schmuck to walk in. And the reason Spitzer is not leading the legal charge against this is because of his own abhorrent behavior.

  136. JS Partisan says:

    Orange has gained about 50lbs, and looks absolutely terrible. He may still be around, but everything is breaking him. I’d go as far as to state, that he’s a shell of a man. He’s just running out the string, because once this country strikes back, and if it’s as devastating as projected. He’s really fucked.

    Moonves, is just a piece of shit, and he basically turned CBS into a shit show. Everything about CBS, is boring and wrong, and here’s hoping it’s next president is a woman, who’s in her 40s, and makes it a lot more interesting.

  137. Hcat says:

    Isn’t CBS the same as it’s always been? It’s aleays been a staid hacky network providing comfort food procedural for oldsters. It’s not like any of their shows in the past forty years has been the least bit innovative or daring. That’s been the key to their success and it is very unlikely anyone is going to monkey with that.

  138. Bulldog says:

    “It’s not like any of their shows in the past forty years has been the least bit innovative or daring”

    My only counter to that would be Murphy Brown, which hit some really good high notes, and the original CSI. Otherwise stuff like All in the Family, Jeffersons, Maude, basically all ended about 40 years ago so you’d be right.

  139. palmtree says:

    The best thing on CBS right now is James Corden.

  140. JS Partisan says:

    I just wanted to state: FUCK THE PREDATOR! Fuck those men for not backing up their co-star, and fuck Shane Black. Fuck you, Shane Black. I love fucking predators in general, but I can’t spend money on this misogynistic shit show of a movie. There’s no way.


  141. Hcat says:

    Murphy was probably the last show I watched on CBS, and there were real high points and Bergan was a talent but on some level it was still the same type of CBS workplace comedy relying on a grump insulting the stock supporting cast of ditzy blonde, stuffed shirt, nebbish etc…. and then tossing the same ire at congress.

  142. Pete B says:

    Anybody else psyched for the one night only (9/13) showing of Mandy at Regal Cinemas? I don’t have an Alamo Drafthouse near me, so I’m shocked I get to see it on a big screen.

  143. Hcat says:

    Be careful that its the horror movie and you’re not accidently walking into a Fathom broadcast of a Manilow concert!

  144. Pete B says:

    ^ Yikes! That would be even scarier!

  145. movieman says:

    Does anyone know whether “Mandy” will be available as a VOD starting this weekend?
    I know the home video release is slated for late October.
    This one-night, one-performance-only thing-y is…odd.

  146. Hcat says:

    Well Doomsday couldn’t kill Cavill’s Superman but apparently Justice League did.

  147. palmtree says:

    Wow, updated Gurus chart…

  148. Sideshow Bill says:

    movieman, from all the sites I’ve read it’s coming to VOD on Friday and physical disc Ocotber 30. iTunes has it listed as “arriving” September 14th. I hope so because my ass is planning on watching it post haste.

  149. movieman says:

    Good to know, Bill. I’ll definitely be on the lookout this weekend!
    Also excited about the Netflix premiere of “The Land of Steady Habits” by my long-time fave rave Nicole Holofcener.

  150. Hcat says:

    Movieman, she is a remarkable talent that also keeps. getting. better.

    Each film has been a slight improvement on the previous, and I am not sure I will get used to the idea of prime talent working for Netflix, nestled between Voltron and foul mouthed cartoons and whatever Sandler threw together last quarter, I am certainly excited to see whatever work she does.

  151. Stella's Boy says:

    Mandy is playing at a theater in Milwaukee, which is wonderful. Can’t wait to see it.

    Also incredibly excited to see new movies from Nicole Holofcener and Tamara Jenkins only a few weeks apart. The Land of Steady Habits and Private Life look fantastic. Would prefer to see both in a theater but what can you do.

  152. Hcat says:

    Plus Roma is getting over the moon reviews, and they have had a couple well reviewed rom coms already this year, I have to admit they’ve stepped up their game.

    If I had to choose between being stuck in a room and watching these over Sony’s slate this year? Wouldn’t be a tough decision.

  153. movieman says:

    Netflix’s slate of original movies in the last quarter of 2018 (incl. Orson Welles and the Coen Bros.!) is more exciting than any studio’s.
    And Netflix has “Maniac,” too, which is supposed to be fantastic. Looks like it’ll be one of those rare Netflix series that I binge.

    P.S.= On a completely unrelated note, does anyone else find WB’s “Star is Born” opening weekend estimate of $25-million ridiculously lowball? And who else thinks a $60-million “Venom” opener is, uh, overly optimistic?

  154. Pete B. says:

    Well…I know my tastes aren’t the norm, but I’ll be at Venom on opening day. And I’d rather be dragged through broken glass than see A Star is Born. So there’s that.

    Who else is still trying to wrap their head around Mandy? Gotta love Kevin Smith during the Q&A: “Linus Roache gave a balls out performance.”

  155. Hcat says:

    With you on that Movie Man, I thought Venom looks wretched, and Star would be through the roof. The Star reviews weren’t as enthusiastic as I had thought they would be, but it will have legs. Maybe not Crazy Asian legs, but I would still be shocked if it didn’t crack 100 million.

    Saw Deadpool 2 last night. I thought the first one was just alright and didn’t really like the snarkiness, giddy violence and meta commentary. Somehow the second one leaned into it even more and it was a much better movie for it. There was plenty of laugh out loud moments for me, and while the violence and action provided no actual tension to the narrative, the John Wick guy was able to slingshot us through it all in such a Dead Alive way I was never bored or rolling my eyes.

  156. movieman says:

    Hcat: I’m thinking “SIB” will be Cooper’s second highest grossing film to date (after “American Sniper,” natch).
    Can’t see “Venom” even matching the first “Ant Man.”
    And I love Tom Hardy (wanky “American” accent and all): I’m genuinely looking forward to it.

    “Land of Steady Habits” is another Nicole Holofcener winner (I dropped everything this A.M. to watch it), although maybe not in my top-tier of Holofceners (favorites are “Please Give,” “Enough Said” and “Lovely and Amazing”). I’m thinking maybe it’s because it’s her first film w/ a male vs. female protagonist.

    Will definitely be watching “Mandy” On Demand this weekend!

  157. Stella's Boy says:

    Why is Venom PG-13? And the director is already talking about an unrated cut. I’ll wait for that version. I don’t think $60 million or more is unreasonable. But A Star is Born is going to open with way more than $25 million, and I say that as someone with no interest in it. That’s way low.

    I hated Deadpool with a passion. So overrated. But I’m with you Hcat. I watched Deadpool 2 earlier this week and I actually enjoyed it. I laughed a whole lot, the X-Force sequence is fun, Brolin is always a treat, and Zazie Beetz is amazing. It just went down easier for me. It’s too long and sometimes the smugness is irritating, and one-liner success rate is like 50%, but it’s pretty enjoyable overall.

    Happy to hear that Land of Steady Habits is a winner. Looking forward to it. And Mandy. And The Predator. Lots of good stuff.

  158. movieman says:

    I opted for “Predator” over “WBR” or “Simple Favor” last night because it started the earliest (and was the shortest). That’s how I choose movies these days, lol.
    Thought it was a blast, and I’ve found some of Black’s previous directed-by credits (specifically “Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang” and “The Nice Guys”) too pleased w/ themselves for comfort.
    Found it fast-paced, very funny and blessed w/ a super cast: Boyd Holbrook comes across like Ryan Gosling’s kid brother, and that’s precisely what the role needed. Plus Olivia Munn, Sterling K. Brown, Trevante (“Moonlight”) Rhodes, Thomas Jane and “Wonder” boy Jacob Tremblay. Nice bench strength!
    Hand’s down the best movie w/ “predator” in the title since the McTiernan original.
    Interestingly, my screening companion had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the theater, and wound up really enjoying it, too.
    P.S.= No interest in “SIB,” SB? Damn. That and “First Man” (along w/ “Suspiria” and “Halloween”) are the fall wide releases I’m most excited about. (“Suspiria” is going to be wide, right? Please let it be so!)

  159. Stella's Boy says:

    That is good news. Love the Predator movies. First one is a classic obviously and I love Predator 2 and Predators. Rewatched both this week and they are a hell of a lot of fun. Just pretending AVP movies don’t exist.

    Not much interest in A Star is Born. No interest in First Man either. Looks like mom porn, and I detest La La Land. Love Coach Taylor but trailer does nothing for me. I’m incredibly excited about a lot of fall movies but not the two whitest movies of the season.

  160. Glamourboy says:

    I had no interest in SIB either..the trailer is nails on the chalkboard for me and somehow it is playing before every fucking movie I see. But the reviews that I’ve read have been stellar…so I’ll probably use it as the payback card for the BF for letting him choose Nun and Happytime Murders. I’m more interested in the Predator story than the Predator movie….and I think I’d be the one kicking and screaming for Venom….so subtract $16 to that opening weekend estimate.

  161. Hcat says:

    ” but not the two whitest movies of the season.”

    Can’t argue with that appraisal, First Man is probably the dadiest movie that has been released since I became a dad slightly over a decade ago, and it doesn’t even have Costner in it!

    Earlier this summer I would have put Star at over 300 based on the buzz, but the reviews why strong don’t point to anything quite that seismic. With this tracking, even with outstanding legs I don’t see it topping the first two Hangover movies in the Cooper all time list. No matter what though Warners is going to continue to be in the Bradley Cooper business, one of the few people left that can be considered a outright movie star and sex symbol and has always made money for the studio. I don’t know who else they have had this type of success with recently.

  162. movieman says:

    Dave Chapelle has a pretty substantial supporting role in “SIB,” so it’s not the whitest fall movie, lol.
    I’m surprised to hear so many dissers. Gotta say that the trailer, albeit absurdly ubiquitous for months, is maybe the only “Not that again!” trailer that doesn’t make me want to run screaming for the hills (or at least the lobby).
    And a HUGE Chazelle fan here so “First Man” is def high on my “Can’t Wait to See It” list.
    Speaking of autumn releases of color (or not), does anyone else think the new Tyler Perry movie–his first for Paramount–actually looks, y’know, good? The trailer makes me laugh out loud every time. Doesn’t even feel like Perry (more like Malcolm D. Lee). Which is a major compliment.
    P.S.= I hadn’t even thought of the “Hangover” films as “Bradley Cooper Joints.” Mea culpa. Probably because I didn’t become a Brad fan until “SLP.” I still think “SIB” has a decent shot at beating them and coming in second only to “Sniper.”
    And “SIB” is currently sitting at 96% favorable on RT (w/ 68 reviews already posted). Seems to me that the critical reception has been pretty uniformly positive so far.

  163. Stella's Boy says:

    $25 million for The Predator doesn’t seem very good considering that’s what Predators opened with 8 years ago. That and it was so aggressively hyped and marketed. And R-rated fare has been doing well.

  164. leahnz says:

    i want to rip ‘the predator’ a new asshole (i didn’t pay to see it, just to put that out there) because it’s so dumb and dull and a bit shit on most every level (jesus movieman were you high af or on shrooms or something) but i can’t even muster up the enthusiasm

  165. movieman says:

    What can I say, Leah? I had a good time, and my expectations were rock-bottom going in, not having really liked any “Predator” since the ’87 original.

    Has anyone else seen “A Simple Favor”? Thought it was great fun: Kendrick does her “Kendrick Thing” and Lively totally owns the movie. Damn, she’s good.
    Yes, it’s “Hitchcockian,” but minus the uber-fetishism of classic Hitchcock (or even a really good DePalma Hitch pastiche). Which points out Feig’s limitations as an artist. He is a first-rate entertainer, though.
    I did get a little restless in the final half hour, but that may have had more to do w/ the fact that I needed to pee crazy bad than the actual movie, lol.

  166. Pete B says:

    Guess I was high on shrooms or maybe it was the residual effect of the seeing the psychedelic Mandy the night before, but I found The Predator to be a fun romp as well.

  167. JS Partisan says:

    There are still only three good Predator films: The original, it’s wonderful sequel, and Predators. That’s it. Nothing more, and The Predator will be thrown on the scrap heap of time, like those shit AVP movies.

    SB, I now know why we could never get along, because I FUCKING LOVE LA LA LAND IN EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE WAY :D! I am not that much of a fan of Whiplash, but First Man seems like another great human space movies. Those never get old to me.

    And I love Rocket the Raccoon and Lady Gaga. A Star Is Born, will hopefully not be an, “Awkward moments,” of a movie. Where you are sitting there going, “My god. This is fucking uncomfortable. Next scene! Next scene!”.

  168. Stella's Boy says:

    Why didn’t you like The Predator? First Man might be a great human space movie. It just looks incredibly boring to me. Trailer is pretty dull and screams wait for HBO. Then again maybe I’ll go see it just to piss off my loony father-in-law.

  169. JS Partisan says:

    SB, that’s spoilers, but the end of the movie is ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous.

    (Estimates) Saturday
    9/15 Sunday
    9/16 Monday
    1 THE PREDATOR (2018)

    4,037 $10,450,000

    — / $2,589
    $10,450,000 / 1

    3,102 $5,920,000

    — / $1,908
    $5,920,000 / 1
    3 THE NUN
    Warner Bros. (New Line)

    3,876 $5,900,000

    +167.3% / $1,522
    $72,776,325 / 8
    Studio 8

    2,504 $3,475,000

    — / $1,388
    $3,475,000 / 1
    Warner Bros.

    3,385 $2,530,000

    +139% / $747
    $143,381,904 / 31
    STX Entertainment

    2,980 $1,716,000

    +102.2% / $576
    $19,891,804 / 8
    7 THE MEG
    Warner Bros.

    2,851 $1,025,000

    +263.6% / $360
    $134,307,190 / 36
    Sony / Screen Gems

    2,009 $1,010,000

    +145.8% / $503
    $17,431,103 / 22
    Pure Flix

    1,620 $820,000

    — / $506
    $820,000 / 1

    1,761 $610,000

    There’s some numbers. I will figure out a way to format it in the future.

  170. movieman says:

    Man-oh-man is “Mandy” f****ed up! (That’s an endorsement btw.)
    Thought it had the glacial pace of Tarkovsky mixed with the bad acid trip + ultra violence of “Irreversible”/”I Stand Alone” Gaspar Noe.
    At times, it’s even reminescent of the legendary “Gotta Light?” episode of “Twin Peaks: The Return.”
    The faux “Cheddar Goblin” TV commercial is alone worth the price of a VOD.
    No NYT review? WTF?!?

  171. Christian says:

    The extremely positive Film Twitter reaction to “Mandy” was genuinely unexpected. I’d have gone to see it if it were playing in D.C. Alas, it’s not playing here, and VoD is not my preferred way of seeing a movie, especially one where reviewers keep instructing me to see it on the biggest screen possible.

    So I’m sitting this weekend out. But I’m very stoked – am I the only one? – about “The Sisters Brothers,” which is screening next week and opening a week hence, I believe. Maybe I’ll be disappointed, but the book knocked me out. I’m hoping the movie does the same.

  172. movieman says:

    Oh, yeah. I’m very much looking forward to “The Sisters Brothers,” Christian:
    big Jacques Audiard fan here.
    But like most interesting, (non-mainstream) films these days, it’ll never play anywhere near me. (We never even got “Sorry to Bother You,” another Annapurna release which was on more screens than “Brothers” is likely to ever reach.)
    Sadly, it’s probably DVD for me.

  173. leahnz says:

    “but the end of the movie is ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous.”

    —- SPOILERS —-

    clearly they are hoping for more of this mayonnaise

    (JS with the box office results in what would appear the last ever hotblog thread is so meta 2018)

  174. GdB says:

    So I just read somewhere that Solo ended up costing $250mil to make with reshoots and I don’t think that includes the P&A.

    Again, I maintain if they made the exact same movie they did, but Solo was a tough 15yr old (played by a 18yr old) so you could believe the character could’ve aged into Ford. Along with imbuing the character a badass backstory of a 15yr old kid keepong up with or besting some ruthless criminals twice is age, would have made that film a hit.

    Even with the TLJ backlash.

    Then again, I did hear a lot of, “Why do I want to go see that movie when I know the dude was killed like a bitch (out of character) by his emo son?”

    Oh wait, that was me! Everyone else with the similar sentiment said, why do I want to see it when I know he dies?

    Besides that, I find it endlessly fascinating that so many of my generation that have made it in the game who were motivated by a love of Star Wars turn down the chance to replace KK and potentially be the next Feige. It’s gotta be something more than toxic fans. Some edict about the franchise from the higher ups or something. Idk, I just know I would have no problem taking that job and ignoring all the hate if I felt I was being intergral to the property.

    Basically, the way Rian Johnson has been. I really hate what he did with the franchise, but I know he believes in his heart he was acting with integrity.

    So hats off to him for that.

    RJ and TLJ (and JJ and TFA for that matter) are the inverse example for me of separating the art from the artist. Usually one loves the art and the artist is a horrible human being on some level so that’s what you say/do to reconcile your self.

    For me, I hate how JJ did Han in TFA and I hate how RJ did Luke in TLJ; but both, by all accounts (some from mutual friends) are really genuinely nice and rad dudes I (and most) would get along well with and be privileged to call a friend.

    So in their case, I gotta separate the art from the artist because I hate their art but I love them as people.

    Idk, for me, the second one is harder (especially if you were legit friends with that person)

    Forgive the rant, but I just assumed this all Byob now until we get an update or the lights go out.

  175. movieman says:

    I feel like one of the survivors of a nuclear (or zombie) holocaust.
    We few brave souls huddle together in an attempt to achieve a semblance of normality.

    Do you really think the MCN website will eventually just vanish overnight?
    How chilling. And sad.

  176. palmtree says:

    The Gurus got updated recently, so who knows? Maybe we just get an update once in a blue moon.

    I recently caught up with SOLO since I missed its theatrical run. It was fun and had all the fan service I wanted and enjoyed, and it should have done waaaay better (were it not for the backlash). Also though, it did feel a bit slight, like I was watching a placeholder for something.

  177. Sideshow Bill says:

    The blog that wouldn’t die. I love it.

    Still processing Mandy. I was expecting the second half to be more kinetic. As someone said above it was more Tarkovsky than George Miller.

    And tha is fine. In fact it’s fantastic. Just not what I was expecting. It needs further viewings. Which it will get.

    Cage was extraordinary. It was a genuinely great performance.

  178. movieman says:

    Had a great time at “White Boy Rick.”
    Don’t get the meh reviews and middling b.o.
    Amused at the p.c. police complaining that it doesn’t spend more time delineating the African-American characters.
    It’s called “WHITE BOY Rick.”
    Was especially impressed at the tight rein Yann Demange used re: McConaughey and J.J. Leigh (two actors known for their scenery-chewing antics).
    Both give admirably restrained and extremely effective performances.

    Since I’ve already gone out on a limb here in potentially rankling delicate sensibilities, I might as well confess to finding the complaints about “First Man” being too “white” amusing.
    Would those critics have preferred that Michael B. Jordan (who I love and who will make a fantastic Superman if they decide to go in that direction–which they should) had played Neil Armstrong instead of Ryan Gosling? Seriously.

    Who wants to bet that Universal changes their release plans for “Green Book” after its Audience Award at TIFF? Rather than throwing it to the wolves on November 21st–where it’s set to open opposite 4 other films–they should hold it for a platform release starting Xmas Day (then go “nationwide” in January).
    Hey, it worked for “Hidden Figures” two years ago…

  179. Pete B says:

    For those who enjoyed Mandy:
    Had to laugh that this got an official video (complete with lyrics)

  180. Stella's Boy says:

    I’m not surprised White Boy Rick didn’t do well even if it’s good. Crowded box office weekend. It’s an interesting story and I want to see it, but TV spots aren’t great. I never did see a trailer in theaters.

    Re: First Man being white, I wasn’t serious. Plenty of movies I am psyched about are very white and obviously it’s a true story and Neil Armstrong is white. I was making a joke. Didn’t mean to offend anyone’s delicate sensibilities. I just think it looks boring and was cracking wise.

  181. amblinman says:

    The Predator was complete garbage. One or two funny gags but…WHAAAAAAAAT was the point here, folks? And why in the hell did they kill off the main human villain in the most unspectacular, after thought fashion?

    (I would have add a spoiler warning but a) no one reads this blog anymore and b) If I ruin the movie for you and you decide not to see it as a result, you’re welcome.)

  182. leahnz says:

    i really dig ‘mandy’ for taking a well-tread scenario/trope and making it the work of art and psychedelic cinema that it is, the sorrowful contrast of such love, care and comfort vs craven violence, cruelty and grief is both beautiful and truly sad and awful.

    thinking about it (as i have been for a couple days) if i’m being completely honest and personal in my assessment, i could have done with just an entire film of ‘part I’ — riseborough’s mandy wandering around being weird and sadly ethereal and awesome and doing cool art, she and the devoted Red doing their thing with such a gentle, comforting love in their little fantastical forest palace and yet with this undercurrent of menace yet to reveal itself providing a discomfiting edge (his nightmares and feeling they should leave there, her horrible story about the baby starlings, etc forshadowing the horrors to come); when the menace actually arrives i find the revenge portion less compelling. and maybe it’s just the horrors of our current reality that make me a bit resistant somehow to invest in the bloodbath portion, though i appreciate it aesthetically, it’s ultimately a little slight and cliche for me (i think ‘you were never really here’, in comparison, handles a similar well-worn trope rendered artistically a bit more effectively on the whole, though certainly less trippin’ balls)

  183. leahnz says:

    it just occurred to me that i may have spoiled the shit out of ‘mandy’ in my comment above, this is so unlike me i’m usually a pedant for marking spoilers, i really hope a bout of carelessness doesn’t ruin it for anyone

  184. Pete B. says:

    Kinda tying in with what Leah was saying – about the first part of Mandy being so good – I searched on Amazon for Seeker of the Serpent’s Eye. That’s the novel Mandy is reading. It apparently doesn’t exist. That sounded exactly like something DAW would have published back in the day. Good job Panos. There is a sucker born every minute.

  185. palmtree says:

    I hate spoilers, except for horror movies. If I know what I’m in for in a scarefest, then it actually makes me want to watch it. So no harm done here, leah.

  186. Hcat says:

    So the Emmys nominated some popular shows and awarded Game of Thrones. Yet….ratings still dropped even though they awarded a highly rated show. Maaaaaaybe ratings for live events continue to fall and nominating what’s popular with the audience as opposed to what’s well regarded in the industry doesn’t have an effect on ratings or ‘relevance?’

  187. movieman says:

    Re: the Emmys.
    “Atlanta,” which reinvents “television” on a weekly basis, was robbed.

  188. palmtree says:

    Game of Thrones had one of its weaker seasons, so I don’t think it was seen as being the favorite to win. When the final season comes out and GoT wins the award again, I’ll bet the ratings do actually go up because of the outpouring of love for the show as a whole.

  189. leahnz says:

    palmtree, ‘mandy’ really isn’t a horror movie per se so hopefully it’s still ok :/ yikes

    that trivia about ‘seeker of the serpent’s eye’ is interesting, i bet a lot of people try to find a copy after seeing the movie (kinda like the people who went looking for the fake nightclub ‘tech-noir’ in LA)

    closer-to-home trivia: i have that same ‘black sabbath’ t-shirt that riseborough wears in the flick with the gasmask head – i think it’s from ‘never say die’ – though mine is like a dark grey marl (and i stupidly cut out the neck in an asymmetrical triangle in the early eighties like a sheep, i think sting had done it on the ‘zenyatta mondatta’ tour and suddenly it was all the rage for 3 seconds and i fucked up my sabbath gear)

  190. Sideshow Bill says:

    Like movieman, I had a blast with THE PREDATOR. It’s nothing that’s gonna stick with me forever but it was an entertaining afternoon, and I appreciate Black going R with gore and kills.

    I had fun. $5 Tuesday helps, but I still liked it.

  191. Glamourboy says:

    I had a lot of fun with A Simple Favor..the people who made the trailer def helped to leave money on the table…the movie is far more fun, funny and twisty than the trailer indicated. Lively is fantastic….and Jean Smart chews the hell out of her one scene in the movie…

  192. JS Partisan says:

    HC, your whole point about the Emmys is garbage, but it’s not your point’s fault. The Emmys are just garbage. Why are they garbage? They did the EXACT SAME THING THE ACADEMY DID WITH THE OSCARS, and now? They are paying for it.

    What did they do? They took too long to recognize the great shows from 20 to 15 to 10 years ago. They dragged their feet, made safe choices, and TV fans started to tune out. The same thing happened with Grammys. If you keep ignoring the zeitgeist, then guess what? The zeitgeist can ignore you back.

    This is why these award shows are dying, because they were too stiff when they needed to be loose, and now that they are loose? No one cares. It’s cool that Mrs. Maisel won, but guess what? It’s not Gilmore Girls, and that show was ignored it’s ENTIRE RUN! That’s the point: the Emmys had their shot, and they blew it.

    Now. The Academy has their shot to be relevant, but we all know they are going to fuck it up. They are also done. There’s no turning back time, and this is where your point is absolutely inherently wrong, HC. You should want what’s popular, if it’s good, to be rewarded. The Academy, has gone out of their way to not do this, and that’s why it doesn’t matter what they do. They already lost people like me, and I sure as shit not going back.

    Again, the moment the Academy ignores Black Panther in the BP category (IRREGARDLESS OF HOW ANY OF US FEEL ABOUT THE MOVIE! THINK OF THE PEOPLE!), is the moment the Academy Awards officially dies. They can avoid this, but I doubt it. They will just reward Beautiful Boy with 9 noms, and think to themselves, “WE DID GOOD.”

  193. Stella's Boy says:

    Did someone say a popular AND really good show should not be nominated? I think Mrs. Maisel is a fantastic show. One of my favorites of the year. I don’t care if Millennials don’t think it’s cool. It’s a great show. What shows would you have nominated JS? It’s different now because the TV audience is so fragmented and people watch shows in so many different ways. It’s hard for a show to capture a really wide audience and become a significant part of the cultural landscape. The Walking Dead did it, but it’s not a good show. Game of Thrones, but I’d say that show is good not great at best.

    Mandy is quite an experience. Glad I saw it in a theater (an old Landmark Theatre is run by a nonprofit now and I guess it’s jam is “craft cinema”). Johann will sure be missed. Another great score. Cage is at his bonkers best. Riseborough is great. Really well-directed and visually stunning. I agree that the first half is a little stronger and leah describes its effectiveness very well, but the second half is still pretty damn amazing. An exhilarating flick. Now I want to see Beyond the Black Rainbow.

  194. JS Partisan says:

    SB, I love Mrs. Maisel, but it’s not Gilmore Girls. The Academy never awarded it, but I guess that’s the difference between Bezos awards budgeting, and the WB/CW awards budgeting. Again, it’s not about rewarding shows now. It’s about ignoring GG, Buffy, and a bunch of other shows that kicked off this Golden Era of TV.

    The sins of the past, are effecting the present. I just wish the Academies of these award shows would understand, that they really can’t fix things. It’s over for them with this current generation. They can always come back in the future, but will they have the capital to do so? Probably not.

  195. Hcat says:

    I would be beyond amazed if Panther was left out of the nominations. Yes there will be smaller films nominated and one of them will likely win. But that is what the Oscars were created for, to highlight the creative outside the popular.

    I like me some Maisel as well, that is a dead on perfect cast. Gilmore was great in pieces but it always spiraled out of control when it needed to reset the relationships to create drama. I looked forward to the show when I would watch it once a week but binging it really shows the cracks, same with friends. I haven’t finished the whole run of Maisel yet, it started suffering from plot sagging that is just a part of television, but I can certainly see going back an finishing it up.

  196. Hcat says:

    “It’s about ignoring GG, Buffy, and a bunch of other shows that kicked off this Golden Era of TV.”

    But those were not the shows that were popular at the time. You argue for populism, pick the biggest hit show you can possibly give an award to (hello Modern Family), and then say the problem was that they ignored plucky shows on a upstart network.

    I agree that whatever my problem with GG it would have been a better choice than late seasons of Raymond (ugh).

  197. Stella's Boy says:

    Oh sure plenty of great shows have been ignored by the Emmys. Why is it not about shows on now but shows that were ignored? Aren’t you suggesting that ratings would improve if the right shows were nominated (which isn’t currently happening)? Yeah didn’t GG and Buffy never have very good ratings?

  198. movieman says:

    Agree w/ Partisan about Emmy’s “GG” snub.
    Maybe the “Maisel” wins are their idea of a mea culpa.
    Too little too late if you ask me.

    Has anyone else seen “Damsel”? Wow. Glad I knew almost zilch going in because I had no idea where it was going. It’s nice being surprised by a movie in the internet/spoilers-are-everywhere age.
    If “Sisters Brothers” and the Coen Bros. movies are as good (or better?), it’ll be a great year for revisionist westerns.

  199. Pete B says:


    So film awards are now to be chosen for their societal effect and not on the movie itself?

    Really hope that was typed in jest.

  200. JS Partisan says:

    Hey, orange fan, I don’t care what your interpretation is. Yes, films should be chosen for their societal effect. Especially, when those movies are good. This should not be that hard to grasp, but you are a fan of an orange. Good job.

    SB, what I am stating is that they already wasted the capital, so it doesn’t matter. This did not start over night. There were moments, where these Academies had a choice, and they almost in totality made the wrong one… for the future of their telecast. They had people excited, then shat all over those people. This cannot be forgotten, because it’s why all of these shows do not matter anymore. They had a chance to do something amazing, and they just shat the bed.

    HC, GG and Buffy were critical darlings, and there are more shows from the end of the 20th/early 21st century the Emmy’s ignored. The same goes with all the quality films the Academy outright ignored, and didn’t even give a nomination.

    Again, this isn’t about winning, as much as recognition. The lack of wins for these shows didn’t help, but the lack of recognition was the beginning of the end. The moment BP doesn’t get a BP nom, is the moment the Academy better look forward to streaming the Oscars on YouTube come the next decade.

  201. Pete B. says:

    Didn’t know I rooted for Syracuse.

    You’ve written alot of crazy stuff JS, but that has to take top honors. So Academy voters need to vote for BP because society demands it? Way to do a disservice to the film. BP should or shouldn’t get nominated on its own merits, and nothing else. Otherwise it’s “I didn’t think BP was that great, but I had to think of the people.”

    So by your logic, Crazy Rich Asians should get an Oscar nod too?

  202. Hcat says:

    I would certainly think that Crazy Rich Asians is still in the running at this point.

    JS, we are talking past each other, what I am saying is when they came out GG and Buffy were more Three Billboards than they were Wonder Woman. Your think of the people argument is entirely against critical darlings and more about awarding shows with large fan bases, which the emmys followed, which is why 24 somehow gets an emmy while Buffy got squat. My point is that people complain about blockbusters not getting nominated for Oscars yet I never hear people complain that NCIS never gets an emmy nod or that John Grisham or Dan Brown has never won a Pulitzer.

  203. Stella's Boy says:

    I get the sentiment about awards JS. I don’t know too many people who take the Emmys or Oscars seriously and they get it wrong all the time. But you are taking it to an extreme. Aren’t you basically calling for a People’s Choice Award (and is that still around)? If it makes lots of money or gets good ratings and the people who see it love it, then a nomination is a must no matter what. So when say Fantastic Beasts Part 2 makes tons of $ and gets an A from Cinemascore, it must be nominated for BP no questions asked. Giving that must say to the public seems counterintuitive and, again, like the reason for the People’s Choice Award. Or like Hcat said why not NCIS for an Emmy? Ratings are huge and its audience loves it. The people have spoken.

  204. Hcat says:

    So not related to much other than we were talking about television and a new season is coming up and all. Both Modern Family and Big Bang are ending this year, and is there anything else on the horizon as the next big comedy? I know how people watch television has changed but there are still broadcast channels in every market that get a good chunk of revenue off playing an hour of syndicated sitcoms before and after primetime and there has always been a steady stream, good and bad, of sitcoms to replace the ageing ones. Not to mention the fact that USA and TBS seem to devote half their schedules each to those two sitcoms. Have the networks and studios fumbled the system or simply hope that audiences finally find New Girl and Brooklyn until something new finally catches with mainstream audiences. Or am I underguessing the syndication appeal of Blackish or Mom.

  205. JS Partisan says:

    Pete, you supported a fucking orange, and let me walk you by your hand one more time. If a movie is important to SOCIETY, and it’s GOOD, then yes it should be rewarded. Again, I am not stating give it all the Oscars, but movies that move the needle and do not suck should get noms. That’s not that crazy, orange fan.

    HC and SB. NCIS sucks. Buffy and GG, never sucked, or didn’t during their early seasons. This isn’t all about popularity, at least not with TV. It’s about not rewarding the important, the good, and the stuff that moves the needle. NCIS, doesn’t move the needle. It’s like that rant Dick Wolf had about Alias, and how everyone talked about it. While no one ever discussed his shows. Why didn’t they discuss his shows? Formulaic pablum isn’t exactly moving the needle. He, like you two, are missing that TV has had a lot of great series in this century, that were just out and out ignored. Even when their fans raised a stink, the critics gave them awards and accolades, but their exclusion helped take MILLIONS OF HARDCORE TV watchers out of caring about the Emmys.

    I also love, when you two bring up the People’s Choice Award. It’s funny, because you miss my premise all together, and that’s always been: THE MOVIES NOMINATED AREN’T ALWAYS THE BEST, but you two just go, “NO! THEY ARE!”

    Again, it’s not like this is difficult to grasp: these award shows just dropped the ball, by nominating films that didn’t connect with a wider audience, or not nominating TV shows seen by everyone but them, as being worth of recognition. Again, this doesn’t really matter, but there’s clear evidence as to what happened, and you just CAN’T IGNORE IT BECAUSE YOU DON’T LIKE ME :P!

    Hc, it’s The Good Place.

  206. movieman says:

    I wouldn’t bet on “Modern Family” closing shop after this season, Hcat.
    To which I say, “good!”
    “MF” has been one of the most consistent–in terms of quality–network series (sitcom or otherwise) this Millennium. And definitely one of the most enjoyable.
    (Ed O’Neill and Julie Bowen deserve MVP honors.)
    Believe it or not, I’ve never seen a single ep of “Big Bang.”
    I just can’t abide laugh tracks anymore. (Sorry, “Mom.”)

  207. Stella's Boy says:

    Again, since you seem to have missed or chose to ignore it, I have my issues with the Emmys and believe they failed to nominate many worthy shows. I didn’t miss anything. I also don’t think the best movies are always nominated. I already said as much. Are you even reading what we post? It seems like you aren’t so that you can continue to claim we just don’t understand what you’re saying. You speak in abstractions while claiming simplicity, and when I ask for examples to support your claims you don’t provide any. This year, what are some shows that connected with an audience and moved the needle but didn’t get nominated? You must have many examples because you keep saying it’s all so simple.

    Also someone claiming that a writer for Collider is the most important person in the industry besides immediate family is hilarious. Seeing Jeff Schneider lose his shit today has been amusing.

  208. Pete B says:

    JS, not sure what me being a Conservative has to do with the conversation, but since you seem obsessed with it, let me quote former president W who spoke on “the soft bigotry of low expectations”. That’s your whole argument regarding BP noms with voters should choose Black Panther …”IRREGARDLESS OF HOW ANY OF US FEEL ABOUT THE MOVIE!”

    Ask Ryan Coogler if he wants an Oscar due to his talent & craftsmanship or does he want an Oscar that’s a glorified participation trophy.

    I don’t need taken by the hand to know your viewpoint is SJW bullshit.

  209. Hcat says:

    Shit now this is getting confusing, just to be clear JS is spouting fanboy bullshit not SJW bullshit. I don’t want to put words in his mouth but he is not suggesting that BP get a nom simply because it has an African American cast and crew, but because it is a massively successful Marvel movie, you are mistaking crusades.

    Now that said I think BP will make the cut fully on its merits, and it should rightfully be celebrated as the greatest comic book movie in the last 38 years. The film itself is a testament on what can happen when Hollywood decides to spread the resources around a bit.

    I adore the Good Place, only show on television I watch regularly. But at this pace they will be ready for syndication in 2026.

  210. JS Partisan says:

    Oh look. A conservative. Good for you, but quoting dubya is the quickest way to make me dismiss you. Also, that’s not my argument, and never has been. I wonder why a conservative would feel this way? Hmmm.

    SB, it’s not about this year. It’s about close to 20 years ago, and these Academies ignoring the world of entertainment changing around them.

    HC, The Good Place is a really cool show, that’s actually using it’s episode count wisely. The dude is telling a story that’s a certain length of episodes, and it gives Bell enough time to do more Veronica Mars. Which is a very good thing.

    Also, you older gentlemen have to get over the MSCU hatred… SCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. It has nothing to do with being a Marvel Studios movie, but a lot to do with being a genre redefining film. Special films, that are good, should be nominated. Are they? Not really.

  211. Stella's Boy says:

    So your contention is that had Gilmore Girls been nominated for an Emmy nearly two decades ago they would have more viewers and be more relevant today?

  212. palmtree says:

    Isn’t the problem the same problem that every critic has ever had? Trying to predict what will be influential and enduring is impossible. Most critics have been wrong at some point, and what makes you think a room full of artists, crew and executives would be somehow better . At every level, whatever is new and really cool has been rejected by the elites until the next generation embraces it but then rejects whatever is now new to them. So in hindsight it’s easy to see that GG and Buffy were the more important shows, but at the time, coming from an upstart network and having a style that wasn’t in vogue yet, I could see how it was passed up. It’s almost inevitable that they award Amy Sherman-Palladino late, but that’s just human folly, not specific to awards necessarily.

  213. palmtree says:

    Also, love the Good Place love. In these fractured times, at least there’s something we can agree on.

  214. movieman says:

    Despite its wonderful cast, I hated the first two-thirds of “Life Itself.”
    But when Antonio Banderas began his monologue about olive oil, I became transfixed.
    All it took was for the pace to slow down, the ADD editing to stop and for everyone to start speaking Spanish.
    Went from a “D PLUS” to an “A MINUS:” cumulative grade soft “B.”
    At its (late inning) best I was reminded of ’70s Claude Lelouch.
    At its worst it’s “This is Us” on steroids.
    That said, some of the reviews are crazy stupid vicious.
    I think it may actually pick up a (small but fervent) following someday on cable.

  215. Hcat says:

    Movieman, there was a James Caan movie a decade or so back that I felt like that about, something or other about his Father. Good cast, I think Cusack was in it before he was a redbox exclusive, but just a turge for the first three quarters and then became a quietly lovely piece of cinema. Not enough for me sit through the whole thing again, but on the short list of not good movies that were able to pull some tears from me. (Australia is on that list as well, mess of a movie but “Drive them Home, Driver” always hits me right in the belly)

  216. Stella's Boy says:

    I have been enjoying reading about Fogelman’s beef with white male critics not being able to enjoy emotional movies. And some of the reviews have been fun to read. It sounds truly awful. I’ve never seen This Is Us but from what I’ve read about that show on steroids sounds excruciating.

    Watched The Land of Steady Habits last night. Love Holofcener, but it’s not up there with her best work. The cast is exceptional, I laughed quite often, and it’s got some great moments. But it doesn’t add up to much. I just didn’t really care about this sad, wealthy white guy or his problems. I didn’t care about what happened to him. It’s not all that affecting or compelling.

  217. movieman says:

    The funny thing is that I loved the first few episodes of “This is Us.”
    But it quickly became excruciating as its modus operandi devolved into schtick.
    By the time season one ended, the only character I even remotely cared about was Mandy Moore’s.
    I’ve liked some of Fogelman’s previous screen work (LOVE “Crazy Stupid Love,” and enjoyed his Al Pacino-Does-Neil-Diamond movie “Danny Collins” more than I care to admit), and the third act (which, interestingly, is almost entirely subtitled) of “Life Itself” is pretty terrific. Too bad you have to wade through puddles of goo and cheap, unearned sentimentality to get there.
    Banderas and the Spanish actors are all really good. Nobody else (not even Annette Bening, Oscar Isaac or Olivia Wilde) has a chance, though. Their material is just too cheaply glib and/or synthetic-phony.
    That Caan movie sounds vaguely familiar, Hcat, but I can’t put my finger on the title either. (And I even went to IMDB.) Another film I’d liken “LI” to would be “Fathers and Daughters” w/ Russell Crowe and Amanda Seyfried. Lots of maudlin ickiness and regrettable writing/directing choices, but just when you’re ready to throw in the towel it surprises you.
    Agree that “Steady Habits” isn’t a “great” Holofcener movie, SB, but I definitely liked it more than you. I’d rank it with “Friends With Money” in her oeuvre. “Please Give,” “Enough Said” and “Lovely and Amazing” are my personal Holofcener favorites. But, yeah: I missed Catherine Keener.

  218. Hcat says:

    Land of Steady Habits is on my to-do list, but haven’t gotten around to Guersney yet so it will have to wait. Plus I found the Mechanic on Amazon and a 70s era Paramount or UA film that I haven’t seen yet always takes first slot on the list.

  219. Stella's Boy says:

    Partly it might be because I love Holofcener movies so much and have such high expectations for them. This one just feels really minor. She decided to write and direct it so she must have been invested in Anders, but I’m not sure that translates to the screen. I just didn’t take anything away from his mid-life crisis or the movie itself, so what’s left is appreciating the performances and laughing from time to time. Which is not nothing. And indeed Catherine Keener is missed.

  220. Hcat says:

    I miss Catherine Keener in every movie she is not in.

  221. JS says:

    No, SB. My point is, that all of these shows ignored so many films, TV shows, and albums, that they guaranteed engagement in these Award Shows would decline. It’s not just GG. It’s Radiohead. It’s Buffy. It’s a lot of shows that I watched, and can’t even remember now.

    Again, it’s a cumulative effect. It’s not just last year, or the year before, but it’s The Dark Knight. It’s so much stuff, that hardcore fans who you want to watch these shows… tuned out.

    Okay. Can we all take a moment to gasp at a Bond movie, that’s OPENING IN FEBRUARY! They are literally opening Bond in February, because of Fifty Shades and Black Panther. That’s absolutely astonishing to me.

  222. movieman says:

    Chloe Zhao has been tapped to direct a Marvel movie?!?!
    That’s the most exciting Marvel-related news since Ryan Coogler was signed to “Black Panther.”

    Does anybody remember that FOX series that lasted one season (1999-2000, I think) w/ Anne Hathaway and Jesse Eisenberg as siblings? Loved that show.
    Was completely overlooked by critics and Emmy voters in favor of ABC’s very good (but not as good) “Once and Again” which premiered the same season.

  223. Pete B says:

    Does anyone know the whole story behind The Predator’s extensive reshoots? I know the original ending was different. Caught it again this week, and the seams showed more the 2nd time. There’s dialogue that doesn’t match up and what happened to the pit bull?

    {Okay, being a proud owner of one, that probably bugged me more than the average viewer.}

  224. Glamourboy says:

    I love This Is Us–the storyteller–the manner of storytelling is always surprising. All of the characters are deeply flawed and yet, you go with it (or you don’t as in Movieman’s case)….

    Speaking of James Caan (well, someone was)..has anyone else seen one of my oddball favorites….Slither? It is a very slight, off beat film that I just adore. It also stars 70’s oddball actress, Sally Kellerman and the always terrific Peter Boyle.

  225. movieman says:

    I love “Slither,” Glamour!
    And don’t forget Louise Lasser who’s pricelessly funny.
    Howard Zieff did some goodies back then (“Slither,” “Hearts of the West,” “Private Benjamin”); and W.D. Richter was one of my favorite screenwriters from that era (incl. the sorely underrated “Nickelodeon”).

  226. Hcat says:

    Favorite Caan film of that era is Cinderella Liberty, tender and shaggy. I always think of Caan as the missing link between Kirk Douglas and DiCaprio. His personal problems seemed to drop him off the map after Theif, but what a swan song.

  227. movieman says:

    Funny you should mention “Cinderella Liberty,” Hcat.
    I watched it again a few months back on TCM and was shocked at how much better it was than I remembered at the time of its release.
    Or maybe it’s just that studio movies have just gotten so much worse–less adult; more juvenile/pandering–since then.
    Yes, Caan is fantastic: loved that he added vulnerability to his Sonny Corleone-era studliness. And he definitely rocked that ‘stache.

  228. Glamourboy says:

    Glad there is mutual love for Slither. I also love Hearts of the West…always wondered why Blythe Danner didn’t become super A list–she’s got the skills. Cinderella Liberty is awesome as well…and I equally admire Marsha Mason’s tough as nails performance Ah, the 70’ I head out to see The House With the Clock and The Walls in the Halls…or whatever…I realize how much I miss that era

  229. Hcat says:

    You mean how Sally Kellerman was able to find consistent work but how today has no idea what to do with Blanchett she is in a supporting role in an Eli Roth kids movie?

  230. movieman says:

    Looking forward to Blanchett in Linklater’s “Where’d You Go, Bernadette?” (loved the book).
    Was disappointed that it got pushed back to 2019.

    P.S.= Speaking of Marsha Mason: what’s up w/ actresses retroactively cutting their nude scenes from ’70s movies?
    Mason did it w/ both “Cinderella Liberty” and “Blume in Love,” and Streisand (yes, Babs herself!) excised her bare breasts from “The Owl and the Pussycat.”
    Re: Danner. I think she may have realized that her movie career would never match her B’way career after Goldie Hawn replaced her in the film version of “Butterflies Are Free.” And Danner’s biggest, juiciest screen role (ironically until this decade) in Sidney Lumet’s “Lovin’ Molly” (based upon a Larry McMurtry novel) was barely released by Sony in 1974. Btw, she’s terrific in the movie (and it’s available gratis on YouTube).

  231. Glamourboy says:

    Movieman–I don’t think actresses (or actors) have enough power to go in and have films re-edited for their own purposes. The last time I saw Cinderella Liberty (recently) it had Mason’s nude scenes in tact. And I believe that Streisand’s topless scene was cut either right before or right after the initial release of the movie …and years later it was printed by one of the skin magazines.

    The Owl and the Pussycat is an odd, odd film….it is mostly terrible…very stagey…Streisand is at her shrill worse…not to mention how homophobic her character is…..but somehow, by the end, the movie grew on me.

    I’ve never seen All Night Long, but I’m kind of fascinated with Sue Mengers and read a great deal about this movie in her bio…and apparently the film (directed by Mengers husband) was the last nail in the coffin for her and Mengers’ relationship

  232. Hcat says:

    I apologize in advance for being so fussy, but Sony didn’t make movies in 74.

  233. JS Partisan says:

    Dale Earnhardt never won a Monster Energy Cup Series Championship, but retroactively he did. Which means it’s now retroactively Sony, and not just Columbia. Hopefully. This makes sense.

    Also, it’s been a month since we had a new thread. A month. I commend each and every one of you, for continuing our goofy blog story going. Dave, may be on twitter defending Julie Chen, but we are still here discussing movie. That’s a really cool damn thing.

    No matter how we agree or disagree. I appreciate each and everyone of you, who still take to time, and come here to visit and post.

  234. movieman says:

    I meant the former Sony, Hcat: Columbia Pictures. Thought the names had become pretty much interchangeable. (And what JS said.)

    Re-watched “Owl” recently and agree w/ you, GB. “Shrill” and “stagey” for sure.
    I hadn’t seen it since Xmas 1970 and vividly remember Streisand’s one-off nudity. It was pretty shocking at the time as I recall. Certainly to my 12-year-old self who only knew Babs from “Funny Girl” and “Hello, Dolly!”
    The TCM print of “Liberty” I watched earlier this year had a weird digital “haze” camouflaging Mason’s breasts in her nude scenes. It was definitely surreal: I’d never seen anything on TCM that “WTF?!” since they aired a reconfigured version of Chaplin’s “Gold Rush” w/ an ersatz dialogue track.

  235. Stella's Boy says:

    I prefer the James Gunn Slither, but that’s just me. And whenever talk of Caan surfaces, sure I think about Thief (among others) but I also think about how magnificent he is in The Way of the Gun. Such a great performance.

    My 11-year-old loved The House with a Clock in its Walls, and I love being able to take him to see kid friendly horror in theaters. I thought it was OK. Occasionally amusing, a few inspired moments, wasn’t bored. But it’s worth it because of how much he fun he had. Also, the cast thanking people for seeing the movie in a theater, is that part of a new campaign?

  236. movieman says:

    “Thief” is prime Caan for sure: can’t forget Tuesday Weld’s fantastic work as well. I’m also a big fan of Caan’s work in the Reisz/Toback “Gambler.”
    Don’t remember “The Way of the Gun” particularly well although I vaguely remember liking it at the time.

    Vis-a-vis nothing, but I finally caught up w/ “Alpha” at a bargain house last weekend. Really liked it, and definitely appreciated the film’s economy: 90 minutes before end credits. Particularly gratifying in this era of bloat-is-more.
    Speaking of which, overlength is a reason I lost patience w/ “Assassination Nation.” Yeah, it’s provocative and “interesting,” but also messy and ultimately fatiguing. Maybe it’ll look better on cable in 9 months. Maybe not.

  237. Stella's Boy says:

    I’m with you on running time appreciation. 90-100 minutes is very welcome these days. It feels like so much is too long. I got pretty bored in the middle of Hereditary (which I just caught up with). Why 127 minutes? Maybe I’m just getting old.

  238. movieman says:

    Agree that “Hereditary” was excessively long, SB. It felt a good half hour too long to me. Which may be why I liked, but didn’t love it like most people.

    I may have enjoyed “House w/ a Clock” a little more than you. At its best, I was reminded of vintage Joe Dante (esp “Matinee” and the “Gremlins” movies).
    At its weakest? Any middling 1980’s Amblin production (take your pick).
    Thought Blanchett, Black and the kid were all fine.
    Who would have guessed that Eli Roth had a kidflick in him? Might be a fruitful new career direction for him.

  239. Sideshow Bill says:

    Anything that keeps Eli Roth from making what he thinks are horror films is a good thing.

    I have tons and tons of arguments over Hereditary. I think it’s perfect as it is. I have remarkable patience for slow movies, slow burn type shit. I love it. If it doesn’t pay off, that’s when I get mad.

    But there are people complaining that Hereditary was too slow and confusing and that the 3 hour cut would have made it better. Huh? I’m no mathologist but a slow burn 3 hour movie would be longer than a slow burn 2 hour movie. This myth of the 3 hour original cut is annoying and I wish Aster had never brought it up. But he has been clear about what was cut, that the material would have made audiences “stew” even longer. Alot of them didn’t enjoy stewing for 2 hours but they think added footage would have made the movie less confusing? Which is another thing entirely because every piece of information you need to understand what happened is IN the movie. Fuck, it’s in THE TITLE. Plus, there’s a clumsy voiceover at the end that tells you exactly what happened.

    It’s ok not to like it. I don’t like stuff, too. But horror fans are their own worst enemies. I’ve been one for 40 years and I’ve been part of that. They complain about sequels and remakes yet they pay to see them. They watch anything even if it’s garbage. They complain that The Witch or Hereditary “sucked ass” while heralding that piece of shit Terrifier.

    I don’t know what this has to do with anything but had to vent.

    Thank you.

    Long live The Final Hot Blog.

  240. movieman says:

    Bill- If they don’t like “Hereditary” and “The Witch,” let them eat cake…or see “Hell Fest.”
    What is this?

  241. Pete B says:

    ^ Hey! Tony Todd needs a new car (or something).

  242. Stella's Boy says:

    I love The Witch, but Hereditary didn’t do much for me. I have no issue with slow burn horror. I like it if it’s done well. For me Hereditary drags in the middle, and is too predictable. Just didn’t wow me after all that crazy hype. Maybe my expectations were unrealistic and unfair. I agree though that horror fans can be real nitwits. They display some unpleasant fanboy tendencies at times, among other things.

    I am looking forward to Hell Fest. An R-rated slasher movie getting a wide release? Sign me up. Looks like a lot of fun. Nothing wrong with a slasher throwback.

    I had a blast with The Predator. Sure it’s flawed. Not all the jokes work, not crazy about the ending, and the effort to make Olivia Munn as tough as the guys is strained (reminded me of Mireille Enos in Sabotage). But man it’s entertaining as hell. The action and gore deliver, the cast is great, there are a lot of laughs, and it moves pretty quickly. I was pleased with it, and the Predator series has four good movies now. Sad it’s doing so poorly, so we won’t get a sequel and the reboot will be PG-13. Bummer.

  243. movieman says:

    Pathetic that a total zero like “Slender Man” can actually hit $30-million at the domestic b.o.
    I’ve often complained about digital murk–how too many movies being shot digitally are so poorly lit you’d swear somebody forgot to pay their light bill–but “Slender” took that deplorable trend to new depths.
    A lousy movie and an eyesore to boot. Unless they do some tinkering prior to the home video release, anyone watching on DVD or Blu-Ray will be staring at a black screen for 90 minutes.
    And I can’t fathom how “The Nun” keeps hanging on w/ its meh WOM (if Cinema Score is to be believed). It’s trifling nonsense w/ zero scares.
    “Hell Fest” can only be an improvement.

  244. Stella's Boy says:

    I’m surprised Slender Man has made that much. It seemed like the studio wanted nothing to do with it and just dumped it to have it off their hands.

  245. Sideshow Bill says:

    Stella, you explained why Hereditary fell short for you. That’s all I ask. Horror fandom can be such a bro’s club. “It sucks ass” is as far as a lot of the criticism goes and it frustrates me.

    Plus, I’m 47. I grew up in the 70s and 80s. Tons and tons of classics. But also tons and tons of crap. Today is the same way. It’s no different. The reason the 80’s seem better is because you’re NOT remembering Fright Night 2 or Neon Maniacs.

    I might be down for Hell Fest, too. Could be fun. Everything doesn’t have to be filet mignon. Pizza and twinkies are fine, too. But I keep going back to filet.

  246. Stella's Boy says:

    I love Fright Night 2. Just watched it again recently. Good times. Yeah I don’t think I have unrealistic expectations re: Hell Fest. I’m just thrilled that there is an R-rated slasher getting a wide release. That doesn’t seem to happen often these days. Pizza and filet mignon are both wonderful. There is a hell of a lot of horror to look forward to in the next 5 or so weeks if the recent festivals are to be trusted.

  247. movieman says:

    There are few films I’m looking forward to before year’s end more than the new “Halloween” and “Suspiria.”
    The (1978) and (1977) originals provided me w/ two of the most enjoyable movie-movie experiences of my entire filmgoing life.

  248. Paul N says:

    Just thought I would let everyone know that I have been reading this for a long time and have always been in the reading not writing category.
    Have really appreciated all of the discussions and been drawn to movies and genres that I never would have looked at. The insider info was always interesting as well.
    Thanks to all of you commenters. You wasted a lot of my time over the years but in a very good way.
    Let me know where you are reading or posting now and I will drop in for a look.
    Thanks again everyone.

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“Ten years ago at Telluride, I said on a panel that theatrical distribution was dying. It seemed obvious to me. I was surprised how many in the audience violently objected: ‘People will always want to go to the movies!’ That’s true, but it’s also true that theatrical cinema as we once knew it has died. Theatrical cinema is now Event Cinema, just as theatrical plays and musical performances are Events. No one just goes to a movie. It’s a planned occasion. Four types of Event Cinema remain.
1. Spectacle (IMAX-style blockbusters)
2. Family (cartoon like features)
3. Horror (teen-driven), and
4. Film Club (formerly arthouse but now anything serious).

There are isolated pockets like black cinema, romcom, girl’s-night-out, seniors, teen gross-outs, but it’s primarily those four. Everything else is TV. Now I have to go back to episode five of ‘Looming Tower.'”
~ Paul Schrader

“Because of my relative candor on Twitter regarding why I quit my day job, my DMs have overflowed with similar stories from colleagues around the globe. These peeks behind the curtains of film festivals, venues, distributors and funding bodies weren’t pretty. Certain dismal patterns recurred (and resonated): Boards who don’t engage with or even understand their organization’s artistic mission and are insensitive to the diverse neighborhood in which their organization’s venue is located; incompetent founders and/or presidents who create only obstacles, never solutions; unduly empowered, Trumpian bean counters who chip away at the taste and experiences that make organizations’ cultural offerings special; expensive PR teams that don’t bring to the table a bare-minimum familiarity with the rich subcultural art form they’re half-heartedly peddling as “product”; nonprofit arts organizations for whom art now ranks as a distant-second goal behind profit.”
~ Eric Allen Hatch