MCN Blogs
David Poland

By David Poland poland@moviecitynews.com

Weekend Estimates from The Klady Jungle

Weekend Estimates 2017-12-24 at 11.57.02 AM

I’m already beyond disgusted with anyone who is whining about the Last Jedi‘s box office. It’s well on track to be the sixth $600 million domestic grosser. It is currently the second- or third-fastest grossing film in domestic history, taking a hit today because of Christmas Eve. But that will be more than made up for in the coming weekdays.

“But it’s not making as much as The Force Awakens.” Waa Waa!

The Empire Strikes Back made 32% less than Star Wars. Musta really sucked!

I don’t think that the box office for this movie – to this point – was going to be much different than it is no matter what film was delivered. The numbers prove the movie is great… or that there is “a problem.”

And journalists have done their part to add to the stupidity, taking the overemphasized metric of Rotten Tomatoes, then going another step down the rabbit hole, obsessing on the consumer rating for the film, which is driven by motivated participants and is in no way – nor claims to be – a public survey of feelings about the movie. As a result, Star Wars cultists have been given a much louder voice than their numbers earn.

Arguments against the film? I hear you. You are mostly wrong, but the standards you are working with make your opinion sensible. I cant argue that you are wrong. But these issues really concern less than 5% of the audience for this film. Maybe a lot less.

Arguments for the film? Well, the film is the best Star Wars film since Empire, so I am on that team. This doesn’t make me a shill for Disney. I think I have kicked Disney and Lucasfilm enough in the last few years to not suddenly be accused of being in their pocket with any legitimacy.

Star Wars does not, 100% does not, have a box office problem. This can change. One or two movies can change this. But this is not the problem movie you are looking for.

Jumanji: Welcome To The Jungle was supposed to be the Sony saver, but… hard to say. Looks like they may top the $60 million six-day projection that came from tracking a month ago. International is doing okay. I just don’t think we know the answer yet. It’s definitely not a lump of coal in Tom Rothman’s stocking. But does it keep things rolling in Culver City? Ask me in a week.

Pitch Perfect 3 seems to know it’s time to close this one out. There is a cable series in this. But this third in the series, unlike the second film, didn’t add anything new (at least as best I can tell from the TV spots) and I don’t know what they were doing throwing it into the Christmas window. The gross will probably be at $50m – $55m by the end of the holiday… which might be okay for Why Him?, but not so great for the capper to a beloved franchise.

The Greatest Showman better be a grower and not a show-er. This could be a Broadway show to come. And gay kitsch forever. What it won’t be is a box office hit.

Downsizing, another movie by a distributor in the midst of a messy transition, got crushed. Paramount has had a hard time releasing quality comedies in December over the years. But there is a giant problem with selling this movie in that they have limited star power and Kristin Wiig is really only in 25% of the movie. The real movie co-star is Hong Chau, and one hopes, after this bad weekend, whoever is in charge of marketing at Paramount this week will let the audience that cares about Alexander Payne’s work know what the movie really is… not just a giant Absolut bottle and giant cracker joke.

Darkest Hour has devolved into a Best Actor-only movie. Focus didn’t figure out how to get people excited. Probably being too careful politically. I am a big fan. But I don’t know  an answer to this puzzle. It’s become a margin player.

Father Figures is a Warner Bros dingleberry. After a great run of Wonder Woman, Annabel: Creation, Dunkirk and It, the studio is back in the box-office toilet for five straight films. The distributor has 23 releases currently scheduled in 2018. Looks like half a dozen potential significant hits are possible. Not an easy time in Burbank.

The Post opened on nine for Fox and managed $54,300 per screen, which is good. You don’t see may nine-screen releases. Four screens with $100,000-per is the platinum standard.

Hostiles had an unfortunate weak launch on three. The movie deserves better. But no matter how many quality consultants are on board, Entertainment Studios is a novice at everything, with four releases in its first six months as a distributor. December is a treacherous (and expensive) release window.

153 Responses to “Weekend Estimates from The Klady Jungle”

  1. movieman says:

    Do you really think “The Greatest Showman” could be a future B’way show, Dave?
    After all, there was already a perfectly decent P.T. Barnum musical, “Barnum,” which opened in 1980 w/ Jim Dale and, in a star-making performance, Glenn Close. (A pre-“Phantom” Michael Crawford played Barnum in the London production which opened a year later.)
    Kind of funny, if not surprising how nobody has mentioned the previous Barnum musical in their “Showman” reviews.
    But that’s just me: cursed w/ a long memory, lol.

  2. palmtree says:

    Actually there’s a great filmed version of Barnum starting Michael Crawford, and it’s a fantastic combo of circus and musical. Looks pretty hard to top given he had to train for months to do all the tricks effortlessly.

  3. Nick says:

    last Jedi better than return of the Jedi? No way. That is total utter bullshit.

  4. JS Partisan says:

    You don’t think? You don’t think? Well Merry Xmas everyone. Dave is using his ABSOLUTIST streak, to defend a failing movie. Sure. It’s failing like a Star Wars movie, and every other film on earth wishes, that they would fail like The Last Jedi. Guess what? It’s a failed movie because everything you love, is everything I hate. Guess what? There are more than me than you, and when the film doesn’t get to where you believe, then will you accept you are mostly wrong, or will you be completely wrong?

    Either way, this movie would have done better. If they actually understood, that people gave a fuck about storylines from previous movies, and would like to see them paid off. You can disagree, but you’re wrong. Hopefully, you had a great Chanakhuh, and have a fun evening with us gentiles.

    Oh yeah: the whole A NEW HOPE – EMPIRE thing, is beyond asinine. Both films had multiple re-releases, multiple times, and why on earth are you comparing different fucking time periods. When you have TPM and Attack, and they played the same way, for different reasons.

  5. Glamourboy says:

    She walks to the top of the stairs, stares at the room full of people until they have her full attention. “You all like The Last Jedi. You are all wrong. You are all stupid, stupid people. There are more of you than me, but you are wrong…all wrong. When it only makes a gazillion dollars instead of a gazillion and a half you will see that you are wrong. You are stupid, stupid stupid.”

    She clicks her heels and runs back upstairs to her room. The people in the room take a moment then continue their conversations, forgetting all about her.

  6. GdB says:

    Glamourboy, the way you get so personal with JS, You come off like someone in denial that they have a crush.

  7. GdB says:

    Funny Dave, you say its the Star Wars “cultists” that don’t like this film. That is a misread if there ever was one. It’s the cultists who are defending it.

    Film lovers don’t want to admit that their love of cinema and well compositioned shots that are pastiche of Kurosawa and others cloud their perception on the narrative disparities this movie has. So they team up with the SW whores while lifelong fans and general movie going public see the film for what it is. A film that has a space chase that makes no sense, a subplot to a Earth looking Space Casino hinged on one character not telling another something they would have, Getting rid of the one new substantial villain before explaining how they were strong enuff to pull Luke’s nephew away from his uncle, and oh yeah, taking a shit on Luke Skywalker by making him a would be murderer who runs away and hides. All of this – really to try and make an art house Star Wars

    What RJ did to Luke is akin to having Zack Snyder have Superman not just kill someone, but kill everyone. That’s not the character.

    And all this does not make for a better Star Wars film.

    No legit SW film would be behind Jurrasic World at this point.

    Fuck the box office numbers, look at the toy sales. It is down. Way way down. At X-Mas. All the adults who buy the toys for themselves and their kids and cosplay are out.

    This film may be a great movie to many, but it is a horrible Star Wars film for most. If you want to see box office through a justifying haze of denial, fine. Look at the toy numbers. This film has hurt more than helped the franchise.

  8. brack says:

    RJ raped JS Partisan’s childhood. So sad that he lives in a world where his heroes never quit or do anything that makes them human or imperfect. *roll eyes*

  9. Mike says:

    I will never understand these fanboys. I thought the Luke/Rey stuff was the best in the movie and the rest was eye-rollingly bad.

  10. GdB says:

    So Brack, are you rolling your eyes at Mark Hamill too for saying the same thing? I don’t need to provide links to the articles at Hitfix and others quoting him saying as such do I?

  11. brack says:

    Mark Hamill PLAYS Luke Skywalker, he isn’t Luke Skywalker, so your point is rather moot.

  12. Joe Leydon says:

    Movieman and Palmtree: Actually, when I first heard of “The Greatest Showman,” I automatically assumed it was a retitled film version of “Barnum.” And yes, it is odd that the very existence of “Barnum” has gone unnoticed by most critics. BTW: My wife and I saw Stacey Keach as the lead in a traveling company production of “Barnum” back in the ’80s, and he was terrific. Decades later, we saw him play Nixon in a touring company production of “Frost/Nixon,” and he was every bit as good in that one.

  13. palmtree says:

    “Both films had multiple re-releases, multiple times, and why on earth are you comparing different fucking time periods.”

    Even if you compare their original release grosses over a similar time frame the pattern is still there.

    Joe, glad to see you here and not your imposter.

  14. GdB says:

    Brack, That is such a manipulation. So, the actor that originally played the character off and on for 40yrs, because he’s not the fictional character themselves, his opinion carries no weight? Or no more weight than JS?

    Bullshit. You are bending logic over an emotional reaction to JS feelings about the movie over a need to be right, rather than have a discussion. Or, you completely have no clue or respect for actors and acting and character work. I like to think you’re not that naive.

    I’ve been reading here since JS was another name, and you Glamourboy and everyone else who reacts to JS so emotionally truly discredit your opinions on the film when they’re really thin attacks against JS because you all are so easily riled up.

  15. GdB says:

    Hey! Star Wars isn’t for you anymore! It’s for the new generation of 5 year olds!!

    So with that in mind, Let’s have a mythology that teaches kids its okay for the Hero to quit and give up and that its okay to maybe murder family if they’re maybe bad, just to appease the adults and cinephiles!!

    – Said no one ever that cares about mythology, how it affects children and children’s emotional intelligence.

    Am I the only one that sees the incongruity between these two?

  16. brack says:

    Did you even watch the movie? All these characters we love are flawed. Luke wasn’t “okay” thinking about almost killing Ben. He felt he failed, and was so ashamed that he decided to go into exIle. Is that really so hard to believe? He felt like he lost his identity and it would lead him to the dark side. How are you missing this?

  17. GdB says:

    How are you missing that the original actor who played him and the general public felt that that wasn’t in nature of the character?? Like, at all?

    You can have a movie or story about failure, have it have meaning and not have them run away and hide or give up.

    You want an example? See any Shonen style anime going back 20-30yrs. DBZ, Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Yuyu Hakasho, HunterxHunter

    I could name several more that get this right.

    They could’ve gotten it right with Luke, but they Force Ghosted him just as he got his eye of the tiger back, instead of doing it right in the next movie.

    Now you have a cinematic mythology that tells kids its okay to run away and hide and give up when you fail.

  18. JS Partisan says:

    I watched the movie, and guess what? It’s bullshit. You can keep rolling your eyes, but does Popeye Doyle ever quit? Does the Bridge? Does Will Hunting? It’s the narrative structure, that has defined our literature from the beginning, but Old Man Brack is ROLLING HIS EYES! Read some fucking Beowulf, then fucking get back to me. Also, I don’t give a shit about The Last Jedi, so nothing was “raped.” Thanks for being the out of touched white man in the room, that uses this in the year of #MeToo.

    GdB, thanks for proving a very valid point about Boy. He literally criticizes me for things, but it always blows up in his face. I drive people from here, but have threads with the highest post counts. I insult people for liking the Last Jedi, when I haven’t. He states this, while ignoring that’s WHAT POLAND DID UP ABOVE! He’s consistency in showing his ass, is continually fun to watch.

    And your other points are right on as well.

  19. brack says:

    Yoda quit.

    Kenobi quit.

    *mic drop*

  20. David Adams says:

    Sony could’ve had another $70 million if they opened Jumanji 1-2 weeks before Star Wars rather than a 1-2 weeks after.

  21. brack says:

    For something you “don’t give a shit about”, I find it fascinating that you can’t stop talking about it.

  22. JS Partisan says:

    Old Man Brack, bringing up that fucking chesnutt, that proves HE DOESN’T PAY ATTENTION. Nope. They didn’t quit. They were waiting, for Luke. Paying attention gets you far, and I can’t be interested in a fascinating box office story, Brack? I love, that I can’t even have a fucking voice about anything to you. What an ass you are, and it’s XMAS! SHAMEFUL!

    What’s your beef… oh you are a boomer and just don’t get it. Nevermind.

    David Adams, that would be too logical a movie for Sony, and we all know they hate that second Friday in freaking December. I get, that movies have floundered on that date, but Jumanji would have fit really well there.

  23. GdB says:

    Yoda didn’t quit! He was hiding out like a Ninja to protect Luke and Leia. He was helping Ezra Bridger and Ashoka Tano between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope whenever he could! You would know this if you were watching Rebels like all the fans who hate what happened to Luke have been.

    Dude, you don’t even have to watch that show to know Obi-Wan didn’t quit. He went on fucking guard duty over Luke for 20 years, as established in Revenge of the Sith.

    No wonder why you like what happened to Luke when you get those characterizations wrong too.

    Pick your mic. back up before you embarrass your self further.

  24. JoeLeydon says:

    Sorry, but Nina Hartley digs The Last Jedi. That trumps anything you haters have to say.

    https://twitter.com/ninaland/status/945126545013669888

  25. brack says:

    “Waiting”, “quiting”, whatever you want to call it, they let the Empire become as big as it was by not acting. That’s a fact. And maybe Luke was waiting for Rey, but he just didn’t know it, did that thought ever occur to you?

  26. JS Partisan says:

    Nina understands a lot of things, but I give a hard pass to her thoughts on any Star Wars movie. Now, can she stop fucking that stranger in the driveway?

  27. Geoffs says:

    Where are you getting this 5% number Dave? This isn’t based on a comic book property or some fledgeling Netflix show….this is STAR WARS where each installment’s legs for as long as I can remember (including the bad ones) have been propped up by an ardent fanbase that feels the need to see these films at least 4x in theaters. And you think that ignoring a lot of their issues won’t at least POTENTIALLY be a “box office problem?” If it was JUST below 5%, the film wouldn’t have seen a 69% drop this weekend, probably closer to 60%.

  28. GdB says:

    I don’t hate Last Jedi. I think it’s a beautifully made movie. But I also think it’s a truly terrible Star Wars movie. I was with it and keeping an open mind until they Force Ghosted him just as he gets his eye of the tiger back. When the story math on that doesn’t add up to have to force that choice the way RJ claims. RJ claims he had to kill him. Why? Because he was so exhausted over a Force power you made up?? The story math doesn’t add up to neccessate that choice other than RJ had too much of a hard on to shoot the unoriginal choice to have Luke dying staring at two suns, giving a postmodern spin on what’s widely known is Lucas’ favorite shot of the series.

  29. GdB says:

    Brack, what part of “Guard duty” do you not understand? What part of stealth (as in Yoda) do you equate with “waiting”

    Dude, is it out of your realm of being to say “I concede that point, however I still feel..”.

    Try that instead of pulling a Fox News spin move on every one of my tangible points.

    Your avoidance of every point I’ve made and twisting it into something that is not even close to being, is some decent bullshit skills for anyone not paying attention, as you seem to be.

  30. brack says:

    Geoffs – not exactly a fair comparison when we haven’t factored in Xmas day/4 day weekend. It will definitely soften the blow, as more people didn’t feel the need to see it on Xmas Eve and opted for Xmas Day instead.

  31. Doug R says:

    Ben finds Luke, then quits.
    Yoda trains Luke a bit, then quits.
    Luke trains Rey, then when Rey learns to use the force in a big way, quits.
    Sounds pretty canon to me.
    Jedi in exile, then ghost on a log.

  32. brack says:

    “Guard duty?” pfft, no one gave a crap or even knew about Luke for 20 odd years until he decided to go off to help Kenobi in the original Star Wars. And Yoda didn’t even want to train Luke, he had only did it because Luke whined enough and he eventually gave in. Some hero.

  33. GdB says:

    Ben didn’t quit, he sacrificed his life to save Luke.

    Yoda didn’t quit on Luke, Luke ran off and came back too late to a dying Yoda.

    Luke didn’t train Rey. Where’s the running, jumping and physical skills Luke was seen training in Empire? Where are the lightsaber combat patterns as established in Rebels? He asked her to meditate, that’s not training.

    Jesus, you guys are twisting plot points 30-40yrs old to fit your perspective.

  34. GdB says:

    Brack, now you’re just trolling because you have too much a need to be right, rather than be kind and have a discussion, you’re a lost cause.

    Anyone objectively reading will see the Fox Spin moves you keep trying to pull.

    Have at it Life’s too short to try to have a discussion with someone who can’t help but troll when they’re emphatically refuted.

    Cheers

  35. brack says:

    We’ve seen that training before in ESB, why did we need to see the same bits again? Luke watched Rey from a distance and seemed satisfied with her saber skills, so much so that congratulatory comments were not required. She’s way more of a natural than anyone before her with the Force. Even Yoda says Rey has all the knowledge of the Jedi texts already, she was literally born to be a Jedi.

  36. brack says:

    If anyone is trolling it’s you for being a butthurt fanboy who can’t let go of your preconceived notions about Luke Skywalker, who you make out to be a Legend, just like he was complaining about in the movie, and I find it ironic you aren’t picking up on that.

  37. GdB says:

    Nice, now the trolling degrades to name calling perjoratives. Very Fox News of you.

    So; because I’m a fan who follows the established “Disney” canon that this film disregards in all forms of media, and you don’t, that makes me a butthurt fan who’s opinion counts less, over what, a true cinephile like you?

    How elitist. Going by your insouciance, I need to whip out my BA in critical studies from USC film to make my words be taken more at face value from you.

    No thanks, I’ll stick with the higher ground and being called perjoratives.

  38. JS Partisan says:

    I find it ironic, that you can’t pay attention to other posters putting you in your… oh HOLD ON! HE FUCKING USES HIS LEGEND POWER TO INSPIRE BROOM BOY! It’s like the movie is written in such a way, that it doesn’t really understand Star Wars, and lacks consistency in it’s message.

    And is butthurt fanboy supposed to be insulting? People are fans of things now. I know they weren’t in your time, but people are fans now. They keep TV shows on the air, they get sequels to movies, and they get all sorts of other ancillary shit. If you have a problem with fanboys, then guess what? I have a problem with greedy ass fucking baby boomers.

    BUT IT’S XMAS! SO MERRY XMAS, YOU CANTANKEROUS BASTARD! MERRY XMAS TO THE REST OF YOU AS WELL! Excuse me, for believing in Frank Cross, who did quit… being an asshole, and shared the importance of this evening… THE BEST FUCKING EVENING OF ANY FUCKING YEAR!

  39. GdB says:

    Oh and just to close things out on my original point, I guess we can now call Mark Hamill a butthurt fanboy too! Great. I guess?

  40. brack says:

    I wrote “being a butthurt fanboy”, I didn’t blankety State you are one. It’s basically the way you come across with your replies. It’s not a matter of opinion, I’m providing facts that support “a certain point of view” as Kenobi would say, and you don’t like them. That’s your problem, not mine.

    And dude, I’m 36 years old, I’m not a boomer, not by a long shot. I love the OT as much as anyone, but take off the rose-colored glasses and realize your heroes made mistakes but then later redeemed themselves. Luke redeemed himself by saving the Resistance and finding peace, and thus will help Rey defeat Kylo Ren when the time comes. Or something else happens, who knows. I can’t wait to find out. We’re in uncharted waters now, and it’s exciting.

  41. brack says:

    Mark Hamill came around to what happened with Luke ultimately. He’s not the writer, believe it or not.

  42. JS Partisan says:

    There’s a human being! I am glad that you are excited, but a lot of us have checked out. It will come down to how many FANS are left to check out IX. Compared to the regular populace, who may have been just as bummed out by VIII. This is what I find exciting about the Last Jedi: the effects of true decisiveness on Star Wars. Marvel Studios overcame their devicive film Age of Ultron, by knocking it out of the park with Civil War. Does JJ have it in him, to make a CIVIL WAR level movie? I am not sure, but Star Wars lost it’s specialness with VIII. Im not sure you can put the genie back in the bottle.

    And Mark is a professional. He’s not shitting on Rian in totality. He puts on a good face, but I doubt he’s coming back for IX. Why would he? So he can be a pointless force ghost? Who the fuck wants that pointless shit?

  43. Monco says:

    The idea that Yoda or Obi Wan quit is too stupid of an argument to merit a response but I’ll bite. Yoda directly confronted the Emperor and fought him in the Senate to save the Republic. That imagery of the greatest Jedi ever fighting in the symbol of democracy is so great it puts anything Rian Johnson could think up to shame.

    Obi Wan’s is a direct comparison to Luke’s. Obi Wan loves Anakin like a brother, like Luke supposedly love Kylo as a nephew. Upon hearing that Anakin slaughetered children he even says to Yoda that he can’t face him. Does he run away because his pupil turned to the dark side. No he goes to confront him.

    The imagery Lucas was working with was on another level. This is myth its not some human drama that you stream on Netflix. Obi Wan and Yoda meet on the asteroid base after they ACT and decide with the birth of the twins the best strategy is to wait and regroup. And when some boy is attacked by sand people and some droid comes bearing a message of a princess Obi Wan immediately jumps back into action and starts convincing Luke to be a Jedi.

    This is literally the exact opposite of what happens in The Last Jedi. Stop lying about what has come before to defend a shitty movie.

  44. movieman says:

    JFC.
    The Hot Blog has turned into “All ‘Star Wars’ All The Time,” sort of like the b.o.

    I guess I’ve got nothing to contribute then, so a Merry Xmas to all.

  45. Pete B. says:

    Isn’t “JFC” a bit sacrilegious regarding this specific holiday? (I kid, I kid!)

    Anyhow, Merry Christmas back at ya and all the Hot Blog Family.

  46. Glamourboy says:

    JS, counting the number of post views? Stating that yours are larger? Is that what this is really about for you? You wrote on another thread that you ‘drive’ these blogs. And that is exactly why I can discredit everything you say. It’s never about the issues of what you state…it’s that you are, in fact, at the most basic level, a bully. In most every post that you write, you don’t disagree with someone without calling them a name. Mostly very age-ist responses, telling people that their age negates their point of view. It wouldn’t be tolerated in many other places, but here, you seem fine, name-calling.

    I mean, if I even bothered to look at your logic, it makes no sense. Luke Skywalker quit? While Yoda waited? hahahaha. So Luke waited…refused..but shows up in the end and saves the day. Isn’t that waiting? It is a major part of any basic movie structure…Refusal to the Call For Action.

    Ok, back to the basics of your posts. Honestly and mostly, you remind me of one of the people I despise most…and that is Trump….not being ok with making a point but needing to criticize others to make himself feel better. Your bizarre need to count how many people read posts (I didn’t even know you could do that on here)….reminds me of Trumps lies about his approval rating, his TV ratings…the number of people at his inauguration…how the media followed him, not because of his groundbreaking ideas but because everything he did was a fucking shitshow and people are attracted to shitshows.

    I could give a shit about your weak point of view and how butt-hurt you are about YOUR Star Wars and your bizarre twisted logic…but what I am truly offended by, and the only thing I’m going to call you out on, is how you insult and bully people here. Yes, your insults to others have certainly shown them how they are wrong, SAID NO PERSON EVER.

    And GdB, Merry Christmas to you. I’m assuming that you are also JS, as you have exactly the same point of view about everything and you mostly write to defend him. How is your post count?

  47. brack says:

    Well stated Glamourboy.

    It’s nice to hear a voice of reason amongst the likes of JS, GbB, etc talking about how the “specialness” of Star Wars is gone because of what happened to the characters they think they own. Boo boo, boo hoo, go cry into your mothers’ bosoms.

  48. PJ says:

    This Star Wars stuff has really shown the disconnect between the critics and the people they portend to serve. When people who have seen the movie are called trolls for having a different opinion, it may be time for Hollywood to look in the mirror.

  49. Hcat says:

    I would love to hear what movies everyone found in their stockings today.

  50. Hcat says:

    I’m reluctant to get into this mess again I felt I did my time, but PJ. critics do not “serve the public” they have no responsibility to reflect the whims of the box office or popular opinion. That’s the whole idea behind having critics, they are not just there to echo your or the majority opinion.

  51. JS Partisan says:

    What kind of asshole, insults someone on Xmas? You are a boy, because only boys act like impetulant little shits on Xmas. You can leave, and take brack with you. Who needs ya? Merry Xmas. Also, GdB, isn’t me. He’s a person, that basically understands what’s happening here, and you are constantly making up nonsense like I bully people? You fuckers are constantly trying to bully me, like you are doing in your post.

    Let me put it to you another way, who wants you here? No one, but brack, who shows up just to be an ingrate for the same personal reasons that you do. How do I know you two aren’t the same person? Again, Gbd shows how out of sorts you are with this blog, and if you don’t like it? Join the list of shadows, because who cares about what you have to state, when you never discuss movies. You discuss me. If I offend you so fucking bad, then go to places where I ain’t.

    Brack, much like that little boy, you do not pay attention. I have multiple times pointed out, that I could give a shit about this movie. Why? I have EU LUKE, I have what Luke means to me, and I don’t need this movie. You are 3fucking6, but post angry shit that has nothing to do with me. You aren’t even 40, but this angry at fandom?

    Oh yeah, aren’t you the asshole who has prequel issues, and didn’t shut up about them? YEAH! YOU ARE! Get the fuck out of here. Apologizing, then going back to being a bullying asshole. Good job, ON FUCKING XMAS!

    If you agree with that boy, then you get what you get. Deal with it, or you can fuck off too. You both don’t discuss shit. YOU DISCUSS ME! I AM NOT A MOVIE! DUH!

    AGAIN, IT’S XMAS, AND THIS SHOULDN’T FUCKING MATTER! GOOD WILL TO ALL HUMANS, but Brack and Glamourboy, on FUCKING XMAS, have nothing better to do than insult another human being, BECAUSE HE’S A FAN OF SOMETHING! Both of you, are sad wretches of men, and I hope you fucking find love one day. If you have love, then apologize to the people who love you, for being THIS ANGRY AT A PERSON YOU HAVE NEVER MET ON THE INTERNET! Merry fucking Xmas.

  52. PJ says:

    “That’s the whole idea behind having critics, they are not just there to echo your or the majority opinion.”

    Then they really shouldnt be pretending as if their opinion matters more then the people who have to actually pay money to see films at the theater.

  53. Bulldog68 says:

    Don’t look now, but according to Mojo, Jedi just beat TFA’s Monday number.

  54. Glamourboy says:

    It is not bullying to call out bullies….and I’m going to keep on doing it. Let’s see, in your post there are many insults….

    You are a boy, because only boys act like impetulant little shits on Xmas

    Let me put it to you another way, who wants you here? No one, (Unlike you, I’m not on here for post counts…I post because I want to)

    Oh yeah, aren’t you the asshole who has prequel issues (Nice one there)

    but Brack and Glamourboy, on FUCKING XMAS, have nothing better to do than insult another human being, (Actually, I have a lot to do today. I am in Europe on vacation after just finishing making a movie…do you know what that is…MAKING a movie? Not just doing the hard work of trashing one. I took a few minutes because your ridiculous posts with more spewing of garbage and offensive insults to others hit a point with me…and I’m going to enjoy calling you out, on Christmas, New Years, Valentines Day….whenever I see you do it.

    Both of you, are sad wretches of men (another insult. I would care other than if you insult everyone on here…then you generally just don’t like everyone)

    Angriest person in the world? I’m drinking champagne, laughing my ass of right now about to sit down to an amazing dinner with family..

    Your brand of bulling is over. I’m calling you out on it. YOU go find some fan boi blog where everyone treats each other like trash.

  55. palmtree says:

    On Luke quitting, he doesn’t really. His choices in the movie are very active. It’s just that we interpret fighting bad guys as the only or best goal but he states his goal is actually something else entirely. That mental shift in the viewer is part of what makes this movie exciting…to some people at least.

    On critics, they do not pretend they are better, well at least the good ones don’t. But yeah, their job is to have their own voice which allows me to see movies through another lens. I wouldn’t want any of my favorite critics just to agree with me. They are like a sounding board for my own thoughts. I’m glad I can read Stephanie Zacharek and disagree with everything she says and still respect her unique POV. In a time when the press is under attack, I think we could also be a little kinder to professional critics too…or at least understand their function.

    On Christmas, have a Merry one!

  56. palmtree says:

    Bulldog, it’s a Christmas miracle!

  57. Js partisan says:

    It’s finally ahead of TFA..God bless America. On that other thing, nope. You’re a shadow. Fade back into them. No one cares about a wraith. Am empty thing, looking for some meaning, on this day of days.
    ..

  58. Doug R says:

    Time is all over that Wrinkle In Time movie. It’s based on a great book that I enjoyed…I just hope they don’t rape my childhood.

  59. JS Partisan says:

    Doug, you don’t use that term anymore. It’s a thing, but the movie just looks cool. Plus, Ava Duvernay is a talented director, so at the very least it will be well acted and look cool.

  60. brack says:

    Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men? JS Partisan… I mean, The Shadow knows!

    Get over yourself. I’ve never seen anyone take themselves so seriously. You’re going to give yourself a brain aneurism. And not every fan boy acts as childish as you, but in your case you give them a bad name by going on about expanded universes that ultimately mean nothing to the movies. I don’t care about any of that stuff because it’s mainly fan fiction that’s fine for people that enjoy it, but by no means should be required reading for enjoying the movies, since nothing in the books are necessary for understanding the movies. It’s fucking pathetic to call out someone as someone who isn’t a fan because I haven’t ready every book or tv show about Star Wars. The difference is I don’t knock you or call you names because you enjoy them, I poke fun because you have your panties in bunch because you have such rigid notions of your beloved Luke that you don’t even see how his character might have done what he did based on the story provided in TLJ. Call it shit all you want, but there’s there there.

  61. Doug R says:

    I figure the worst they could do is Last Mimsy, which was not really well made, but still caught a lot of the wonder.
    The best? Well, probably something like Wizard of Oz which didn’t do all that well when it was released.

  62. JS Partisan says:

    To be fair, the Wizard of Oz did come out during the greatest year in cinema history. It would be cool to get another Wizard of Oz like movie moment. Something they show on network TV/Cable TV for decades.

    Now. Let’s fucking decipher some bullshit. Nah. I will pass, but fucking hell, Brack. What the fuck is all of that? I don’t judge any fan. Never have. I speak for myself, and guess what? I can have a strong opinion about fucking fandom. IT’S MY FUCKING RIGHT!

    What I find funny, is that you are rigid to someone who doesn’t like something, and has explained it for his reasons. You even give shit to Mark Hamill. It’s fucking hilarious, that I CAN’T HAVE AN OPINION! Seriously. You bully me, you yell at me, and why do you do it? I have an opinion. If you don’t like it, then you don’t have to read it. You obviously, never read my shit. You skim it, and get angry with me. Which makes that little boy’s comment about treating people like trash, funny. YOU TREAT PEOPLE LIKE TRASH, THAT PERSON BEING ME! But do I treat anyone else that way?

    Here’s the point: How many times have Geoff and I have had knocked down drag out arguments? This is where Boy and your arguments go to shit: You treat me like trash. You should go, because I can argue with everyone else all day, but I have no hard feelings against any of them. This is on you two. I don’t give a shit, because here I am. Like that dude last week, who thought that I would remember them… nope. Remember the good times… not the bad ones.

  63. Glamourboy says:

    YOU TREAT PEOPLE LIKE TRASH, THAT PERSON BEING ME! But do I treat anyone else that way?

    LOL, what does that sentence even mean? People is plural…then it turns into the singular. Bad grammar doesn’t impress.

    This is where Boy and your arguments go to shit: You treat me like trash. You should go, because I can argue with everyone else all day, but I have no hard feelings against any of them.

    Right. You have no hard feelings towards anyone because you are the bully….you are the ones calling people assholes and saying they are idiots or too old, etc…..why would you have any hard feelings…no one has truly been calling you out till now.

  64. leahnz says:

    in die hard when the brilliant score has the little sinister ‘walking in a winter wonderland’ riffs during hans gruber and crims carrying out their skulduggery, it’s a beautiful thing

  65. movieman says:

    Tremendously disappointed in “All The Money….”
    Plummer is the best (only good?) thing in it. Spacey would’ve been all wrong as Old Man Getty: the only thing anyone would have noticed was the prosthetics.
    But would crix stop pretending this is a good movie just because Scott did the expedient/politically correct thing by digitally eradicating Spacey? It isn’t.
    I’ve always been a Wahlberg fan/bordering on apologist, but it wasn’t until “Money” (!) that I realized he’s been lucky until now to have been cast in roles that align w/ his rather limited range. He’s completely out of his depth here.
    I couldn’t tell whether Williams was doing a Katharine Hepburn imitation or…what? If so, it wouldn’t have passed muster on a SNL skit, let alone a two-hour-plus movie.
    Another mini-revelation this Old School auteurist had while watching the movie: Scott has made more bad (“Hannibal,” “Body of Lies,” “Robin Hood,” “Kingdom of Heaven” “American Gangster,” “The Counselor,” this) than good (his two “Alien”s, “Matchstick Men”) movies this millennium. Depressing, but true.
    I sure hope Danny Boyle’s upcoming FX miniseries treatment of the Getty kidnapping is better (a LOT better).
    P.S.= Somebody should tell Ridley that it doesn’t snow in San Francisco. Even at Christmastime.

  66. brack says:

    Always playing the victim JS. Poor little JS. Waaa!!!!

    First of all, you tell me and many others that we’re not real fans. Who are you to determine who is a fan and who isn’t? Talk about presumptuous. You can be a fan all you want, I’m not judging, but when you cry about a beloved character not being exactly along the same lines as the one in th extended universe, I find that rather pathetic and closed minded to not even try to accept a different reality for a character based on the events that unfolded in the film. I’m not a fan of the PT, but I accept the events that occurred. You’re the one who can’t handle your Luke Skywalker being a different character than the one you wanted him to be. That’s on you, not me.

    Second, how am I giving shit to Mark Hamill? I simply stated he’s an actor, not a writer, and not actually Luke Skywalker. That’s a verifiable fact. How can you be so thick?

    I have no hard feelings about you JS, trust me. I find you entertaining because you are so easy to get to level 11 at any given moment, and you fret about the most insignificant things like Luke Skywalker quitting. Good god, it happened mostly off screen between ROTJ and TFA. Get a grip. He came back to save the day and realized he made a mistake, but I’m dumbfounded you can’t fathom Luke actions, considering he almost killed his nephew and was ashamed and afraid he’d be forever consumed by the dark side. But keep on keeping on being mad about it, it’s highly entertaining. JS NEVER QUITS WHINING!!!!! I hope that’s the case forever.

  67. JS Partisan says:

    Did you write something? Did that other boy write something? I don’t care. I’m not reading your shit, I don’t care what you post, and I am not changing who the fuck I am for you two.

    If you are annoyed with it? I don’t care. Especially you two fools, because you trash. Both of you. You can feel that way about me, but don’t care… you the trash.

    Keep posting. Leave. I don’t give a shit. You’re both a waste of fucking time, and I am sick you two hijacking threads giving me shit.

    I’d rather read anything from anyone else, then have to deal with your bullshit. Seriously, where the fuck is Ethan? Is he having fun in Menorca, or something? He’s why I come here. Movie and Stella, with their obscure movie shout outs. Leah, giving shit to Blade Runner 2049, and being consistently not taking shit about anything. Geoff being Geoff. Dr. Wally, whenever he shows up. The same with Bill, because he at least yells at me (figuratively) for reasons. Seriously, that’s the blog, and it sure as shit isn’t some trash.

    This is over, I don’t care, and a happy new year to you all. Wherever you be.

  68. Pete B. says:

    Movieman, do you consider the director’s cut of Kingdom of Heaven a bad film?

    Orlando’s the weak link in a pretty good cast.

  69. brack says:

    JS – I must have posted something, otherwise you wouldn’t have replied back. If you didn’t care, you wouldn’t have replied back. I couldn’t give two shits about changing you into someone you’re not. Continue to be an irrational human being for all of time. It’s very entertaining.

    There’s one thing I do know, it’s that JS NEVER QUITS!!!!

  70. YancySkancy says:

    Hoo boy, I’m glad I don’t have a dog in this Star Wars fight. Saw the first three once each upon first release; same for Phantom Menace. Skipped the next two prequels. Caught up with Force Awakens on streaming, the same way I’ll get around to Rogue One and Last Jedi eventually. They’re fine, but I never got invested obviously. American Graffiti, on the other hand, I’ve probably seen ten times. That’s the Lucas film that stoked my writing ambitions.

    We have so many streaming services, I usually forgo physical media movies these days. So I got books: a couple of Richard Stark’s Parker novels, a book of classic Hollywood interviews and Darcy O’Brien’s “A Way of Life, Like Any Other,” a fictionalized memoir of his growing up with fading movie star parents (George O’Brien and Marguerite Churchill). It’s supposed to be one of the best Hollywood coming-of-age tales.

  71. Pete B. says:

    It’s truly sad that Parker has never been properly portrayed on film.

    Someone needs to do Slayground with Michael Shannon before he gets too old.

  72. Dorney says:

    Pete B – Michael Shannon as Parker is great casting. I had never considered that.

  73. palmtree says:

    Leah, the Die Hard score is a masterpiece of musical Easter eggs. Glad to see a fellow appreciator.

  74. Glamourboy says:

    Movieman, very sorry to hear your opinion of ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD…I’ve been rooting for it to be great. Scott deserves a capper to an amazing career. I wonder if Plummer is going to get an Oscar as a show of support against Spacey and all the other industry sexual predators.

    I’ve been in Europe for a few months now and I know that we think that US movies rule the world…but other than Star Wars, its been hard to find new US movies. Girls Trip just got a wide release here. Coco is playing, but mostly in a dubbed version. The Florida Project just opened but only in 2 theaters. But they do have amazing revival houses…beautiful old theaters dedicated to old movies, playing every day of the week…at one theater they are showing a Fritz Lang noir festival. Going back to the US after New Years and looking to catch up on a lot of movies.

  75. movieman says:

    Pete- I’ve never been able to get through the “Kingdom” Director’s Cut (or “The Counselor” D.C. for that mater).
    Bought both w/ tremendous enthusiasm when they came out (Old School auteurist and all, lol), but every attempt has failed. Not sure whether it’s me or the films themselves.
    Btw, I somehow blanked on two of Scott’s (very) good new millennium movies: “The Martian” and “Gladiator.” Mea (gulp) culpa.

    GB: Maybe you’ll have a different reaction. A lot of people I respect are gung-ho on the film. Sure wish that I could share their enthusiasm. Enjoy your European sabbatical!

  76. brack says:

    I’ve only seen the directors cut of kingdom of heaven and thought it was quite good. Definitely worth checking out.

  77. Glamourboy says:

    JS,

    You’re just not getting it. You called two of us Trash. That is rude and unacceptable. I take offense in it. It is name-calling. It is you being a bully.

    I’ve tried to tell you…I could give a shit about your opinions…but your behavior to other people on this board is unacceptable. As long as you keep doing it I am going to keep calling you out. You know why….because, as you have wisely said….Superman doesn’t stop….Spiderman doesn’t stop….and I’m not going to stop calling out your bad behavior.

  78. brack says:

    Spider-Man quit

    http://www.comics back issues.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/quits.jpg

    Superman quit

    http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Vol_1_201

    Batman also quit in a few different storylines, which I’m sure JS will come back with “those don’t count”. Does mean I don’t love these characters, far from it.

  79. Dr Wally Rises says:

    “Another mini-revelation this Old School auteurist had while watching the movie: Scott has made more bad (“Hannibal,” “Body of Lies,” “Robin Hood,” “Kingdom of Heaven” “American Gangster,” “The Counselor,” this) than good (his two “Alien”s, “Matchstick Men”) movies this millennium. Depressing, but true.”

    The directors cut of KOH is a revelation, genuinely transformative. The subplot about the leper king son and heir enriches the movie and gives a context to Queen Isabella’ s descent into madness. The Jeremy Irons and Marton Csokas characters have properly rounded arcs rather than simply disappearing. A flawed masterpiece in its longer form.

  80. movieman says:

    You sold me, Back & Wally.
    I’ll dust off my “Kingdom” D.C. DVD and give it a spin.

  81. Stella Boy says:

    I love The Counselor and would rather watch it again than pretty much any movie he’s made since 2000. It’s underrated. Gladiator is very overrated. I never saw Body of Lies bit haven’t heard anything good about it. I love Scott though. There’s plenty to like even in his weaker films.

  82. palmtree says:

    Movieman, you very strangely left out The Martian from your list. And yeah, it’s definitely a sign he’s capable of good.

  83. movieman says:

    I mentioned “Martian” (and “Gladiator”) in my follow-up post, Palm.
    An admitted oversight on my part.

  84. amblinman says:

    American Gangster was gangster. I do not agree it’s one of Scott’s bad films. Crowe and Washington’s performances by themselves place it firmly in the good column.

    Back to Last Jedi: I can appreciate that people enjoyed the diversion from SW canon…tradition…formula, whatever. Ultimately, here’s my main beef: if Star Wars isn’t about fantastical escapism, what’s the point? Luke out-clevering Ren with a heretofore unseen Jedi trick might be “neat” but is it really the most exciting, fun choice for the film? Was that really the payoff to send fans home happy, ready to gobble up the next installment?

    No space battles. No light saber fights. What exactly is anyone supposed to do with that? Pat ourselves on the backs for liking a Star Wars movie that doesn’t want to be a Star Wars movie?

  85. JS Partisan says:

    Yeah. American Gangster, is fucking incredible. Also, the Kingdom of Heaven director’s cut, is fucking wonderful. It’s features one of the better, fuck war endings ever. The extra scenes with Edward Norton’s character are also pretty good.

    Oh yeah, SB. Body of Lies is good. If you like Leo and Russell, because they just chew scenery in the movie, and it’s like a less douchy Zero Dark Thirty.

    Like I stated before… not caring, not reading, and trash. You think you are the victims, or you are in the right. Ha. Trash.

  86. Glamourboy says:

    JS,

    A bully is someone who calls someone else a name, walks away and doesn’t care. You are a bully.

    Again, calling me trash. Now I am requesting an apology.

  87. Js partisan says:

    T
    R
    A
    S
    H
    !

  88. movieman says:

    Didn’t care for “Gangster” at all, Amblin. Felt like a lukewarm Scorsese (or Spike) imitation.
    “Body of Lies” is an incoherent botch: it’s “White Squall” terrible.
    And I hardly ever say a bad word about DiCaprio (who gave a career performance in the same year’s “Revolutionary Road”) either.
    I remember thinking at the time that “Kingdom” and “Robin Hood” had their moments, but neither resonated.
    Have attempted the 3-hour “Kingdom” director’s cut a half dozen times, but always stop at the 60-minute mark and never returned to it.
    Maybe someday.
    On the positive side, I think “Matchstick Men” is criminally underrated. Cage, Rockwell and Lohman (whatever happened to her?) are all letter-perfect and work in perfect synchronicity.
    Also love both of Scott’s new generation “Alien”s.
    None of which changes my mind that “All the Money…” simply isn’t good.
    Sorry.
    And I’m probably the only Hot Blog faithful (well, maybe Joe Leydon) who saw (and flipped over) “The Duellists” in its original theatrical release.
    Have been a Sir Ridley fan ever since. Which doesn’t mean I’m blind to his failures/flaws.

  89. JS Partisan says:

    MM, I bet we can unfortunately guess why Lohman went away. It’s probably really creepy shit, because this seems to be why actresses just disappear. Which is disgusting, and fucking sucks.

    Also, TLJ is behind TFA by close to 200m. You can go on with the Empire analogy. You can go on about the backlash being some staged bullshit. You can even state TFA, is a once in a lifetime event. Guess what? They followed up a movie, that relit the fire of Star Wars in a lot of people, with a movie that can’t carry the prequels’ water. Those are facts. Love the movie? Hate the movie? Doesn’t matter. The people have spoken, and TLJ fucked up the brand. This is some DCEU shit right here, but like GEOFF points out all the time… no one seems to want to do what they do to Warners to Disney.

    Disney stockholders, should be mad as hell about this shit. Why? They want to get paid, and pissing off the fanboys and girls, and general audience… FUCKS UP THAT BAG! This is what happens, when you hire a professional, to do a fan’s job. You get a shit return. People can hate JJ all they want, but he produced a 2bn dollar movie. He made people happy, and they bukkaed the fuck out of his and Kasdan world building.

  90. brack says:

    I couldn’t stand The Counselor. A lot of great talent wasted with a pointless and unoriginal script. Ridley Scott can’t tell the difference between a good script or a bad one, otherwise he’d be a top 5 all time great. Still a master director imo.

    No JS – for someone who claims to not read what I or boy writes, I said YOU play the victim, and then lash out by name calling. You’re the Donald Trump of The Hot Blog. No one takes you very seriously at this point. Someone who is a JOKE of a poster calling other people trash because we call you out on your bullshit is living proof you are in DENIAL of any shortcomings you have as a person of rational thought. It’s not mean if it’s actually the truth. Explain how boy and I are trash, without flying off the handle and calling us more names, I dare you.

    “Back to Last Jedi: I can appreciate that people enjoyed the diversion from SW canon…tradition…formula, whatever. Ultimately, here’s my main beef: if Star Wars isn’t about fantastical escapism, what’s the point? Luke out-clevering Ren with a heretofore unseen Jedi trick might be “neat” but is it really the most exciting, fun choice for the film? Was that really the payoff to send fans home happy, ready to gobble up the next installment?

    No space battles. No light saber fights. What exactly is anyone supposed to do with that? Pat ourselves on the backs for liking a Star Wars movie that doesn’t want to be a Star Wars movie?”

    No space battles? The movie literally started with a space battle. Rey and Kylo fight off the Imperial Guard with their lightsabers and their weapons were equivalent. Like and Kylo and a lightsaber battle. Maybe not epic, but it is more memorable than most lightsaber battles that seemed to go on forever, especially in the PT.

    Lastly, there’s of fantastical escapism for SW fans. We got the island, the rebels/resistance with their backs against the wall, great action sequences, and strange but underrated casino scenes, and the Force kid at the end who dreams of wanting me. It’s about finding hope no matter how bleak, and redemption for mistakes made long ago, amongst other things.

  91. Nick Rogers says:

    Alison Lohman’s last few credits are films directed or produced by her husband, Mark Neveldine — he of Neveldine / Taylor (“Crank,” “Gamer”).

  92. palmtree says:

    Amblin, a recent New Yorker article by Joshua Rothman makes a similar point, that its deviation is from the joyful abandon of the Star Wars franchise, and does a decent job convincing me. Hard to deny it tries stuff more intellectually than emotionally. And he uses the movie to make the point and not some imagined stockholders.

  93. Stella Boy says:

    I know most hate The Counselor but I watch it every time I come across it and it’s a bizarre world I love spending time in. Cast is spectacular. It’s weird and funny and nasty. I don’t know. Just works for me. I also adore Matchstick Men.

  94. Js partisan says:

    One more time, for the boys out there. I’m not reading any of it, so stop responding to me.

    Palm, this is a comment section, and not the New Yorker. Watching Grace Randolph before. Made me imagine being a Disney stockholder looking at this shit. TLJ is still successful, but is it as successful as it could have been? That’s going to be the question, but the numbers are definitely telling a story.

  95. YancySkancy says:

    Pete/Dorney – I’ll third that suggestion of Michael Shannon as Parker. But I’m guessing after the flop of Taylor Hackford and Jason Statham’s Parker that the chances are slim. IIRC, Donald Westlake only allowed them to do it if they agreed it was a potential franchise launch (this is why the previous Parker films, like Point Blank and Payback, always changed Parker’s name). I assume Westlake’s estate retains that requirement. It would probably take someone with the commercial clout of Tarantino to make it possible.

  96. palmtree says:

    JS, haha fair enough. It’s a good review though… Not some esoteric argument The New Yorker name implies.

    Movieman, don’t know by how I missed that.

  97. Amblinman says:

    @brack, I really wish I’d gotten all of that. And when I say space battles, I mean the gigantic rebel fleet v Empire stuff. The bombers were reeeeeaaally dopey. The Ren/Rey team up had no emotional impact. Most lightsaber fights (all?) in previous SW films were very personal. This was like a John Wick sequence. Nice choreography but bleh. The Luke/Kylo Face off was a cheat.

    But hey, I can’t tell you that you shouldn’t like the thing you liked. I wish I’d gotten out of it what you seem to have.

    Oh – huuuuge high fives all around over Matchstick Men. Remember when Nic Cage being in a movie elevated it?

  98. brack says:

    As far as space battle goes, the kamikaze light speed attack is 2nd place behind the original ST explosion of the Death Star imo. Just a “holy shit” moment. I’ve seen the movie three times so far and it is very effective every time. Plus the whole Luke showing up to save the day will also be well remembered 20 years from now. The light saber tug of war was an amazing bit, as good as any light saber clash from any of the previous films.

    JS – if you’re not reading, why do you keep replying “I’m not reading”? You’re definitely reading something, you’re not fooling anyone. You simply can’t help yourself. You probably aren’t reading much, you just like the sound of your own words at this point. JS TRUMP.

  99. Js partisan says:

    What? WCATSMDFTB!

  100. amblinman says:

    “As far as space battle goes, the kamikaze light speed attack is 2nd place behind the original ST explosion of the Death Star imo. Just a “holy shit” moment.”

    Gorgeously filmed but I don’t see the emotional impact. Not to mention it was preceded by one of the many dopey moments of the script in which Dern has to stay behind to pilot the ship…only to cut to a shot of her absolutely not piloting the ship and just staring out a window.

    “Plus the whole Luke showing up to save the day will also be well remembered 20 years from now. ”

    I would take that bet. It’s not iconic because he’s not really there. I remember being grateful it turned out he was a hologram only because it would have been amazingly stupid to turn him into an immortal suddenly (y’know, like Leia being able to zip through space unprotected). My gratitude faded as I realized…he’s just going to die on a fucking rock without doing a single thing.

    So, yeah, you and I obviously had waaaaaaay different takeaways from the film.

    Loved the Porgs tho.

  101. Js partisan says:

    I love Rose, and the porgs. Outside of that? Eh,

  102. Hcat says:

    Of course we all look old next to someone with their fingers in their ears going LALALALALALALLLA I CANT HEAR YOU!!!!!!

    Now as for Mr, Scott, cant help but love him and sincerely wish each failed movie was ‘White Squall bad’ because what a world it would be…. actually prefer original KOH to the directors cut just because I saw the original so many times new scenes break the rhythm of the movie I know. KOH along with Exodus take the idea of religion seriously for what it would have been at the time instead of updating it to a more modern time, Bloom was trying to buy his wife’s way out of purgatory with his good deeds.

    And American Gangsters biggest criticism is that it wasn’t the greatest American movie ever made. It certainly had all the parts, but Scott only delivered a 3.75 instead of an all time 4.

    Watching Robin Hood it all came clear to me, Ridley Scott is David Lean with weaker knees.

  103. brack says:

    “Gorgeously filmed but I don’t see the emotional impact. Not to mention it was preceded by one of the many dopey moments of the script in which Dern has to stay behind to pilot the ship…only to cut to a shot of her absolutely not piloting the ship and just staring out a window.”

    Well she pretty much saved the galaxy from The First Order, totally blindsiding Hux. She needed to put the ship in light speed, which I don’t think you can do on autopilot, and you don’t have to have a steering wheel to go straight. So yeah, not a strong argument against that shot.

    “I would take that bet. It’s not iconic because he’s not really there. I remember being grateful it turned out he was a hologram only because it would have been amazingly stupid to turn him into an immortal suddenly (y’know, like Leia being able to zip through space unprotected). My gratitude faded as I realized…he’s just going to die on a fucking rock without doing a single thing.”

    But he was there, he was in two places at once, he just couldn’t be hurt or penetrated where he was projecting or whatever it was exactly. He wasn’t a “hologram” in the sense that R2D2 projected Leia. He could touch things. And he saved the resistance from total annihilation. If you call that nothing, that’s your prerogative. The Leia floating back to the ship, while not the best execution, is silly to knock too much considering she’s pretty strong with the force, always has been, but I can’t argue that it was necessary. It really wasn’t and should have been done differently or cut.

    JS – always having to have the last word, and I’ll say whatever I want to say to say to your. I’m not breaking any rules, and you don’t own The Hot Blog. Deal with it and live by your words instead of just claiming you don’t read replies to you. Everyone here knows you can’t help yourself.

  104. JS Partisan says:

    GC, why the fuck do I want to keep up this pointless bullshit? It’s pointless. They don’t like me, I don’t like them, so I am just going to fucking ignore them and move on. What else should I do? Discuss shit with them? Brack attacked me in the fucking #METOO thread, then shows ups three weeks later and apologizes to me over that shit. Guess what? THAT APOLOGY MEANT SHIT! I don’t know what crazy bullshit world they live in, where I am some bully or what not, because the guy who gets attacked BY THE LIKES OF YOU ALL THE DAMN TIME FOR LOVING MARVEL STUDIOS AS MUCH AS ANY NUMBER OF INDY FILMS, is the fucking bully. Yeah… no.

    It’s make believe bullshit. If that’s how they see shit, then why do I have to discuss anything with them? Case and point: SB and I, probably spent the better part of four years ignoring one another. I see brack’s post, but haven’t read nary a word. Why? I DON’T GIVE TWO FUCKS! There’s no point having a discussion with someone. Who you simply do not see anything eye to eye with… it’s fruitless.

    If we can’t just discuss movies and box office, then I am just going to act like the HARMONIHOLICS, and TUNE THAT SHIT! THANK YOU and… just because it hasn’t been brought up… BLACK FUCKING RAIN is still my favorite Scott film. I also love GI Jane, because of it’s pacing, and Viggo’s bastard character.

  105. Hcat says:

    You always mixup the term ‘discuss’ with ‘shitting yourself with rage’, and no one else make that mistake here.

  106. JS Partisan says:

    See? What fucking reality are you existing in? Did you read the last box office thread? Do you remember anghus? Scooter? Do I need to go on? You people, live in an alternate reality, and this post states as much from you.

    Also, go back to 2012, and read today. I’ve gone out of my way to fucking change, but you fuckers attack me all the time. It’s just me, almost all the time, taking all of you on. Excuse me, for not being even more GOJIRA on your asses. You have it coming, but like I stated before. There is stuff to love about this blog, but this sure as shit isn’t one of them.

    If that’s how you feel, GC, then there’s not point to ever discuss anything with you ever again. Again, I defend films from the most popular franchise in the history of modern cinema, and I am a rat bastard. YOU ALL GET IN A THREAD ABOUT BATTLESHIP BEING ALRIGHT, and you are a o fucking kay. It’s bullshit, but again… if that’s how you feel, then you and me… we are done.

  107. brack says:

    Writes the guy who calls others TRASH. You are the biggest hypocrite here JS. You’re so blinded by your own rage that you take anything anyone says about you as an ATTACK. I never attacked you, I COMMENTED on your knee jerk replying style where you play the vicitim and everyone is out to get you. No one is doing that. Calm down. I apologized to you because honestly I feel sorry for you. But at this point you really get everything you deserve, and I don’t feel sorry for you in the slightest. You go on and on about something you claim you don’t care about, you’re only fooling yourself.

  108. Glamourboy says:

    JS, once again, you call me Trash.

    I don’t appreciate it and I think it is out of place on this blog….and anywhere really in 2017.

    I would like an apology from you and i would like you to stop lashing out insults to me and to other people on this board.

  109. leahnz says:

    “Leah, the Die Hard score is a masterpiece of musical Easter eggs. Glad to see a fellow appreciator”

    so dope palmtree, gets super stuck in my head tho every damn xmas eve.
    “musical easter eggs” is a good description for all the influences and homages spun together in its own unique, rousing fashion, almost like another character in the movie the score’s so powerful and pervasive, twisted christmas. pretty rare in cinema these days – a bit like the dearth of truly great villains.

    i think the only recent film score that really got under my skin and defined the movie the way the older classic scores did back in the day was the mesmerising, seductive yet off-kilter music for ‘under the skin’.

    speaking of star wars, the ok but not that great or rousing scores is something i really miss, i don’t get it, why so generic (tho i really love Rey’s little flute notes theme, it’s perfect for her)
    also WW’s electric cello is choice

  110. Dr Wally Rises says:

    I believe that Alison Lohman is an acting coach these days. I hope she comes back at some point – I love ‘Drag Me to Hell’.

    I wish I could get done with the whole Last Jedi storm – just like Temple of Doom, Licence to Kill, Batman Returns and Back to the Future 2, (ALL of which pissed off a load of people at the time and were accused of damaging the franchise beyond repair, oh yes they did and yes they were), it’ll be better appreciated in retrospect. There were no Bond films for nearly EIGHT years after Licence to Kill (I know there were lawsuits but still). Having Bond go rogue and orchestrate a personal vendetta was seen as a basic violation of the character’s core principles (this sound familiar to the arguments over Luke’s actions in TLJ?). It was the lowest grossing movie in the series. Nowadays of course, LTK is seen as a bold and original experiment that has gained more acclaim since then. And what of Back to the Future Part 2? Back in ’89 BTTF2 was going to be the slam dunk of the year. BTTF had grossed $250 million four years earlier. And Zemeckis / Gale had the stones NOT to give us the movie we were expecting. It was accused of being impenetrable in it’s plotting, of betraying the original movie (the ending of BTTF1 is unravelled so that Biff essentially wins). The audience spoke, and BTTF2 grossed much less than expected, around half of the gross of Batman and The Last Crusade that same year. Nowadays, of course, people can see BTTF2 as a bold and inventive movie that expands the mythology of the original in an original way.

    Point being, is any of this sounding familiar to the discussions on TLJ we’re having right now? Give it fifteen years or so and I think a lot of opinions on TLJ will have done a 180.

  111. Glamourboy says:

    Dr. Wally, I nearly jumped out of my seat when you mentioned Drag Me To Hell. I love that movie and feel it is very unappreciated.

    Very much looking forward to reading Joseph McBride’s book, Two Cheers For Hollywood. I read a sample chapter and it is fascinating.

  112. Amblinman says:

    “But he was there, he was in two places at once, he just couldn’t be hurt or penetrated where he was projecting or whatever it was exactly. He wasn’t a “hologram” in the sense that R2D2 projected Leia. He could touch things“

    Oh. Shame no other Jedi thought to use this trick in any of the previous 7 films. Might have come in handy.

    You keep describing the result of these actions (“They save the galaxy!”) as a defense for the awful writing. I’m not disputing the results the characters achieve in the story, just how they get there. Johnson didn’t expand Force mythos, he just made it up as he went along.

  113. brack says:

    leahnz – definitely agree about TLJ’s score, which feels more like a greatest hits score with very little originality. Still pleasant to listen to, but nothing stands out like Rey’s theme, which is a gorgeous little piece from TFA. Maybe it’ll grow on me as I watch the film over the years, but it should have had more distinct pieces.

    By far my favorite score from this year is the score from Thor Ragnarok. Talk about a sweeping and beautiful score, and at times purposely over the top. I find myself listening to it quite a lot off my Apple Music service.

    Concerning BTTF2, it was virtually going to be impossible to recapture the lightning in a bottle that was BTTF. While it’s a worthwhile sequel, it came off too derivative for a lot of the audience who wanted something more than just a rehashing of a lot of the basic story, which was fun as a time-travel cautionary tale, but lost a lot of the magic of the first film. I still don’t get the dislike for Temple of Doom, as it probably has more replay value than Raiders, which I love equally, but Temple was such a well orchestrated roller coaster that the lack of character development compared to Raiders was inconsequential. Of course that’s just my silly opinion. As far as Bond goes, he was mainly handled horribly in the mid to late 80s. Bond himself came off rather bland and boring, which is a cardinal sin for Bond films. Even if the plot sucks, Bond has to be appealing, and he simply wasn’t in Licence to Kill.

  114. brack says:

    “Oh. Shame no other Jedi thought to use this trick in any of the previous 7 films. Might have come in handy.”

    When were the other movies ever set on that island? We don’t know how Luke was able to do this, and frankly an explanation would have been as terrible as midichlorians counts. He can do it because, force, no other explanation needed.

    “You keep describing the result of these actions (“They save the galaxy!”) as a defense for the awful writing. I’m not disputing the results the characters achieve in the story, just how they get there. Johnson didn’t expand Force mythos, he just made it up as he went along.”

    I actually did explain the action, not just the result of the action. She needed to be there to put the ship into light speed, and she probably made the decision at the last minute. You can call that bad writing, or possibly an oversight on your part for the motivation of the character. Again, that’s your opinion to go that way and call it bad writing. I’m not just answering “because it saved the day”, so you can stop pretending any time now.

    And of course Johnson is making it up as he goes along. Why is astral projection any more far fetched than force ghosts? I guess you have a copy of a Force Bible or something that makes it clear what a Jedi can and can’t do with the Force, my bad.

  115. Amblinman says:

    “I guess you have a copy of a Force Bible or something that makes it clear what a Jedi can and can’t do with the Force, my bad.“

    No, just 7 other movies. Apologies for using a canon’s own logic and universe to discuss said canon. In the future I’ll use your very articulate and thoughtful “Well, duh” when evaluating this stuff. My bad.

    “I actually did explain the action, not the the result of the action. She needed to be there to put the ship into light speed, which she probably made the decision at the last minute. You can call that bad writing, or possibly an oversight on your part for the motivation of the character. Again, that’s your opinion to go that way and call it bad writing. I’m not just answering “because it saved the day”, so you can stop pretending any time now.“

    Here, let me help you out because it seems you can’t remember the movie or your own arguments.

    You:

    “Well she pretty much saved the galaxy from The First Order, totally blindsiding Hux. She needed to put the ship in light speed, which I don’t think you can do on autopilot, and you don’t have to have a steering wheel to go straight. So yeah, not a strong argument against that shot.“

    She didn’t stay behind to ram the First Order. She stayed behind initially to pilot the ship away from the resistence and keep the First Order following. The need for light speed wasn’t a factor in the decision. But you’re acting like that was the plan all along and you’re half right: Johnson needed her in position to do that regardless of how he gets there. So first we’re told she needs to pilot the ship, which is established by her staring out of a window, absolutely not piloting anything. Then suddenly she needs to steer for light speed because your Lightspeed For Dummies copy explicitly states this is necessary.

    So, yeah, I’m not pretending anything. Your arguments amount to “But da galaxies was saveded by this!”

  116. palmtree says:

    Rose gets a theme too. Or at least some quality that is associated with her. Glad to hear you liked Rose, JS, can’t remember you ever mentioning that before.

    Thor Ragnarok score is out of this world.

  117. brack says:

    “She needed to be there to put the ship into light speed, and she probably made the decision at the last minute.”

    That goes against your,assumption that I thought it was the plan along, I knew she was initially trying to get the The First Order to follow her to distract from the evacuation. It didn’t work, and she improvised the kamikaze. How’s that bad writing?

    “No, just 7 other movies. Apologies for using a canon’s own logic and universe to discuss said canon. In the future I’ll use your very articulate and thoughtful “Well, duh” when evaluating this stuff. My bad”

    Um…what? Canon isn’t a static thing. There is such thing as new canon, is there not? So why not here? Why the need to limit the Force as just a few tricks we’ve seen a million times? It gets stale.

    “She didn’t stay behind to ram the First Order. She stayed behind initially to pilot the ship away from the resistence and keep the First Order following. The need for light speed wasn’t a factor in the decision. But you’re acting like that was the plan all along and you’re half right: Johnson needed her in position to do that regardless of how he gets there. So first we’re told she needs to pilot the ship, which is established by her staring out of a window, absolutely not piloting anything. Then suddenly she needs to steer for light speed because your Lightspeed For Dummies copy explicitly states this is necessary.“

    I’ve seen the movie three times, she doesn’t need to manually pilot the ship to draw away the Resistance from the The First Order. But the First Order knows if there’s lifeforms on the ship. And see my first reply, you’ve mistaken what I wrote and pointed it out. Sorry you misunderstood. And every single Star Wars movie requires manual light speed, because of risk of crashing into a star, as Han Solo mentioned in ANH. No Lightspeed for Dummies required, just keen observation of the Lightspeed seems is all that’s needed.

  118. Amblinman says:

    There’s a difference between adding to/expanding canon vs ignoring it and making shit up. If the final Harry Potter film involved Potter defeating Voldemort by waving his wand and summoning a spaceship with lasers to kill all the bad guys, that’s ignoring what’s been established. Leia flying through space and Luke summoning a ghost of himself that’s both solid and indestructible is ignoring what’s been established. Sci-fi, fantasy, whatever still has to follow its own established logic. The audience needs some form of ground rules so we understand what we’re seeing. If you want to expand on what we’re seeing, that’s fine. But it has to be earned.

  119. Amblinman says:

    “And every single Star Wars movie requires manual light speed, because of risk of crashing into a star, as Han Solo mentioned in ANH. No Lightspeed for Dummies required, just keen observation of the Lightspeed seems is all that’s needed.“

    Ohhhh…so you understand how this works because it’s been established by previous films in the series, thus if it wasn’t followed it would seem odd.

    Fair enough.

  120. Dr Wally Rises says:

    The Jedi couldn’t maintain their identity through the Force after death until they could. Yoda couldn’t flip around like the Tasmanian Devil and fight with a lightsaber until he could. The Sith couldn’t expel lightning from the fingers until they could. Or freeze a laser blast in mid air until they could. Again, what Luke does on Crait doesn’t come totally out of left field – Johnson plays fair by foreshadowing the ending when Kylo feels the rainwater on his hand.

  121. Hcat says:

    That’s a pretty weak number for Happy End. Has the audience for foreign language shrunk so much that even a name like Haenke can’t get a foothold? I know its likely a tough film, but its not like his others were really accessible either and they managed to carve out a sliver of an audience. Is the year too competitive, has SPC slipped off their game or are even the high end audiences avoiding subtitles now?

  122. amblinman says:

    “The Jedi couldn’t maintain their identity through the Force after death until they could.”

    Yeah, that’s called establishing canon. Happened in the second movie. And was repeated several times to underline it’s part of Jedi mythos so that the *audience* understands the callback completely when it pops up again. This is called “world building”.

    “Yoda couldn’t flip around like the Tasmanian Devil and fight with a lightsaber until he could.”

    This one is stupid. Seeing a young(er) Yoda assumes he has all the skills and fighting ability of any Jedi. It’s not some weird new thing that no one has done before. It’s like arguing “Prof X couldn’t move without a wheelchair unless we flashed back to when he wasn’t in a wheelchair.”

    “The Sith couldn’t expel lightning from the fingers until they could.”

    This was part of the establishing series. As I said, if they want to EXPAND on their abilities, that’s fine. If I had offered up that there’s no reason Holdo needed to stay on the ship, it could have piloted itself, you and Brack would respond there isn’t anything previous we’ve seen in the series that suggests these ships can do that. You seem to appreciate the application of a film’s own explained logic when it suits you. I’d be fine if they even so much as gave us a throw away line about how the people have evolved and as such the Force’s use has evolved yada yada. But nope. Instead we get Leia flying through deep space and Luke being both intangible and tangible and impervious and and and…etc…and, with the reasoning being “Umm, the Force.” Okay. The Force. So now we know The Force is essentially an Inspector Gadget type energy field that grants it’s adherents literally any superpower they need at any given moment.

  123. brack says:

    You claim to understand all there is about piloting spaceships in Star Wars yet you can’t accept new, maybe even ancient Force abilities? Ones so powerful most Jedi wouldn’t do it because it would literally kill them? At least astral projection is an established thing, debatable if realof cours, but something I’d reckon a Jedi could do.

    Mmmmkay amblinman, whatever floats your boat. It’s not even within same realm as Potter summoning space aliens, that’s reaching my friend.

  124. Hcat says:

    So Downsizing had a budget of $70 million? Who in gods name approved that? Sure it was probably greenlit when Damon was at a high after the Martian and his latest Bourne adventure, but this is hardly the same type of draw. Is there some weird Legendary or MRC type financing deal that hedges their exposure or foreign presales? Or is Paramount going to eat 50 million plus marketing on this?

    I appreciate that they often work with real filmmakers but they had to see the limited appeal of Suburbicon, mother! and Downsizing. The checks they wrote to get these made is a little insane. Its not considered gambling if you always loose.

  125. brack says:

    Damon does not have a strong track record when it comes to comedies. Baffling indeed.

  126. Doug R says:

    Die Hard was on about 3x a day over the holiday, one of my pauses the moment when Bruce comes shuffling out of the dark with his empty gun. The has this ominous string very reminiscent of Jaws when the shark is hunting-implying Bruce is the dangerous hunter even though he’s outnumbered.
    I understand the lower Back To The Future 2 numbers. It felt so derivative of the first movie, the future is given short shrift and all the time spent on that F*cking sports book! The final audience punch in the nuts is when you get a commercial for the movie you actually wanted to see at the end. Should have 2 cut down to about a half hour in the 3rd movie.
    Temple of Doom was basically trapped in one place, based on Lucas’ story-Speilberg made that clear. That mine chase was supposed to be in Raiders but it was too ridculous and expensive to stage so it joined the rest of the leftovers in Temple.
    License to Kill was one of my favorite Bond movies. I had read the books first and License Revoked is a wonderful angry revenge story. Plus Wayne Newton as a crooked preacher and Benico Del Toro was so young back then.

  127. Doug R says:

    I’m thinking most of the $70 million spent on Downsizing was on effects. Remember the outrage at how much was spent on Night At The Museum? Many tiny people effects there.

  128. Hcat says:

    The problem with BTTF2 was they didn’t want to spend time on what would have been the heart of the piece which would have been Marty growing up to be the same type of loser he always saw his old man as. BTTF was dreamed up out of Gale asking himself if he would be friends with his dad if they were the same age. That is relatable to all audiences. Then you add the juxtaposition and nostalgia of how the fifties look to the eighties and you have a warm humorous family film (sort of, the peeping tom and hot to trot mom stuff might not be for the little ones). But the sequel had none of those things and the plot was not just more convoluted but also launched from a slingshot so it was tough to catch your breath. It had too many ideas and didn’t take the time to shape them (the future, the George Baily less present, and the past a second time). The third breathed a lot easier and was able to reestablish the relationship between Doc and Marty, and Marty was able to grow again as a person, which made it a more satisfying entry.

  129. David Poland says:

    Cool it, JS Partisan.

    If you want to call people names, do it by e-mail. Doesn’t belong on here.

    Thank you.

  130. Hcat says:

    Doug, I don’t remember any outrage at the budget of Night At The Museum. That had crazy BO potential, family friendly premise that was basically a live action toy story, a big star in Sandler, a couple of family film legends in supporting roles (You could almost see in your mind how the movie would have played in the eighties with Williams in the lead, Van Dyke in the sixties, and Rooney in the forties), and a producer and director that had a track record for this type film. That film was a solid bet.

    But a satire of consumerist culture for seventy million? Besides seeming to be a contradiction in terms, it doesn’t seems like it would have broad enough appeal to make the budget back. I can see how it would cost that much, but they had to know it was a giant risk. Hell it was what they spent on Daddy’s Home 2 and that is about as broad audience across the plate as you can get.

  131. Thunderchild says:

    Re force powers

    I’m sorry but ever since Vader choked admiral Ozzel from an indeterminate distance in empire, the canon on the force has been fluid.

    1. Snoke chocked hux from an indeterminate distance which seems to be okay with everyone.

    2. Vader established the use of the force in space in a new hope, furthermore if you use the force to move an object or bring it to you, then bringing yourself to an object is just as valid. I’d cite force jump as an example. Leia simply pulled herself back to the bridge.

    3. Luke’s use of projection and it’s cost was somewhat presaged when Kylo asked if Rey was doing the meld but discounted it as the effort would kill her.

    As for holdo, I always thought the intention was to jump to hyperspace the minute the transports got to crait and thus drag the ships out of the system or the first order would instantly pick up that something had been sent.

  132. PcChongor says:

    Saw HAPPY END in a theater full of Upper West Side blue hairs. The ones who stayed awake were mostly confused and appalled by it, which means Haneke probably did exactly what he set out to do with the film, but alienating your arthouse audience like that definitely doesn’t bode well for the box office, which is ironic because the film is also “The Avengers” of his films and creates a fun little “Haneke extended universe.”

    Also saw PHANTOM THREAD for a third time. Everything about it is impeccable. Couldn’t think of a better swan song for DDL.

  133. brack says:

    To make a lot of mad viewers happy with Episode IX, Rey kills a bunch of younglings and makes Ren babies with Kylo to continue the “Skywalker Saga” so the nerd rage about there being no more Skywalkers will be silenced with a “be careful what you wish for” outcome, but then finding out years later Luke actually is Rey’s father!

    Make it so JJ, make…it…so!

  134. movieman says:

    PC-Except for maybe “Amour,” I think Haneke lives to alienate “arthouse” audiences, lol.
    All power to him, though.
    Not my favorite of his films, but it’s still damn good and better than the “meh” response many have given it.

    Can’t wait to see “Phantom Thread” again! It was my favorite theatrical release of 2017.

  135. Hcat says:

    PC, well God Bless those blue hairs. Practically every indie film I ever saw had an audience made up of at least half of them (well maybe not blue hair but certainly over 50). If it weren’t for them there would be no independent market.

  136. PcChongor says:

    True, but they’re also the reason why I’m not exactly crying for Argentina when it comes to the Lincoln Plaza Cinema shutting down. Easily the most pompous and annoying theater audience in the whole city who always seem to be more concerned with being seen watching independent films vs. actually enjoying watching independent films. The blue hairs with money to burn might help keep places like the Film Forum and MoMA alive (they should call mid-day screenings there “The Lord of the Flies Experience” because of how nightmarishly bonkers all the regular retirees there are), but the vast majority of indie audiences for true cinephile joints like The Metrograph and the Quad are quite diverse and absurdly wealthy tower dwellers make up maybe only 10% of the audience.

    I don’t really know what my point was with explaining all that aside from the fact that it’s really fucking annoying seeing blue hairs sneak salads into screenings and then having to hear them loudly fumble around eating it for the entire film.

  137. Doug R says:

    Luke didn’t die. He used the force so deeply, he became part of the force. This is foreshadowed when Snoke does some pushing around in the throne room and is visibly tired right after.

  138. Hcat says:

    PC, Having moved to the sticks a decade ago I don’t encounter that. But I have to say all the places I went in DC when I lived there (AFI, Landmark, lovely little Greenbelt theater) everyone was relatively well behaved. But I never had the midday experience and of course, not New York.

    I always wonder when I see films open in 3 or 4 screens. Is it always the same theaters? Are there like 4 theaters in New York and LA that soak up these 50K per screening averages before they move to more screens after two or three weeks? Or is the wealth spread around a bit? When I see something like the Post heading out on 9 screens, I always wonder how they decide who gets it.

  139. Doug R says:

    I remember seeing True Grit in a smaller more art house type theater in a retirement suburb, one of those small towns that the suburbs grew to envelope.
    Old guy a few rows away lets out a massive series of farts just before the trailers start, I figure it added to the authenticity of a western.

  140. PcChongor says:

    I recently saw “The Meyerowitz Stories” on its opening weekend at the Lincoln Plaza Cinema and it was a sold out, extra-juicy per screen average showing, but the audience was almost completely dead in terms of reactions to the film *even though* just about every joke and moment was hand-tailored for their enjoyment. I saw it again on 35mm at the Quad with their typical mix of Union Square freaks and wide-eyed film students and the they ate the movie up. Dunno, but the hoity-toity crowds have always been such a bummer, which sometimes carries over to industry screenings too.

    And all this insight is courtesy of MoviePass. Makes it so I don’t have an excuse not to go see everything I can, and I’m curious to hear from the smaller theaters how it’s impacted their bottom lines. Just today at the Lincoln Center every single person in line for the screening was using it.

  141. Ray Pride says:

    The theater gets every penny of the ticket price. MoviePass pays retail. The problem is it’s devaluing the perception of ticket prices, which will cause grief once the VC millions that finance the tickets have been burned through, as Uber has with its billions from successive VC finance rounds.

  142. PcChongor says:

    I have no doubt MoviePass is a beautiful supernova that’s going to go dark sooner than later, but I was more wondering if it helped bring in more concession sales to theaters. MoviePass users don’t tend to be the popcorn type. But more audience members in general still seems like a nice win for them. The only way the theatrical experience is still going to exist twenty years from now is if movie going can become a habit again. If not, expect a world of nothing but straight-to-streaming BRIGHT and STAR WARS 115 pseudo-blockbusters every couple weeks.

  143. palmtree says:

    I have a Moviepass, and every time I see a movie now I do get concessions. Before I wouldn’t get anything because it was too expensive, but now since my ticket is essentially “free” I consider the concessions an affordable treat.

  144. brack says:

    MoviePass will never be the Netflix of the theatres. The savings are. good, but the convenience is lacking and rather complicated compared to Netflix. Most people won’t bother, and it will remain a niche item for filmgoing addicts.

  145. palmtree says:

    Brack, NY Times says moviepass already has a million subscribers, reaching that mark faster than Netflix did. It already sounds more than a niche, and it has yet to peak.

  146. Hcat says:

    When Netflix started there were a lot of people who thought it was inconvenient to wait a few days to get the discs they wanted to see and had terrible times managing their queues. If there is a problem with moviepass is that they have got to be losing money with each new subscriber.

    I can’t imagine my data is worth that much, I am quite boring. Really the only thing they can market to me are more movies which I would then use moviepass for and cost them more and more money. I like the idea of a subscription pass, but they may have undershot the price point.

  147. Ray Pride says:

    If your MoviePass ticket is $12, MoviePass pays $12 to the exhibitor. If your ticket is $17.75, MoviePass pays $17.75 to the exhibitor. They are throwing money out the back of a train.

    Like Uber, but for destroying the perceived cost/price point of the theatrical experience without the creative participation of exhibitors or distributors.

    Like Uber, it places an app atop the capital investment of exhibitors, distributors and producers without having invested in infrastructure or the core elements of an industry.

  148. palmtree says:

    I don’t think my perception of moviegoing has diminished at all. If anything, I didn’t like moviegoing to begin with. I hardly went due to the prices and the hassle, and mostly caught things at home much later. Moviepass at least puts me in the theater where I can buy concessions, which I usually never bought before. And where I’ll be enticed to come back again and again, creating new habits for me.

    Also, it’s only losing money because moviepass is hoping to sell your data to marketers much like Facebook and Google (both of them ostensibly “free” to use) do. They trade the amount of money they earn from consumers for the amount of money they will earn from advertisers. In essence, you and your habits are the product they are selling. That’s the economy we’re in now, and I’m enjoying the movies I probably would have missed otherwise.

  149. Ray Pride says:

    Every single ticket loses money for their investors. Cash on the barrelhead.

  150. palmtree says:

    It’s a race against time… Eventually they will make money when the subscriber base gets big enough. The hope is they do it before they run out of money.

  151. Eric says:

    Moviepass is hoping to live long enough to achieve the gym membership model. Lots of people sign up, use the service briefly, then keep paying the monthly fee without ever really using it much after that.

    No idea how much venture capital they have to burn, but I doubt it’ll be enough. Going to the movies is more fun than going to the gym.

  152. brack says:

    “Brack, NY Times says moviepass already has a million subscribers, reaching that mark faster than Netflix did. It already sounds more than a niche, and it has yet to peak.”

    A million people isn’t much, it’s been around for years now. and even so, what is Movie Pass making from those subscribers? I’m using it, but I can’t imagine it’s very profitable. And if the subscription base gets too big, how will the company afford to operate? By selling information? The business model will have to change drastically for Movie Pass to last in the longrun. Distributors and theaters are hoping premium tickets will offset the costs, but I don’t know how realistic that is.

  153. PcChongor says:

    MoviePass made some sense as a business when it was $49.99 a month and only the most hardcore film nerds I knew used it. It’s clearly vaporware at $7 a month, but I’ve been trying to soak up its sweet, sweet venture capital slush as much as I possibly can while it still lasts. Have pretty much gone to a movie every day for the past two months. It’s been insanely fun, and I wish that it was feasible without MoviePass, but the entire theatrical release model is geared towards getting people to go out to theaters once or twice per month at most, so there’s no incentive for the big chains to lower prices. In an ideal world, tickets would be on a sliding scale with a reasonable ceiling and floor. Cheaper for off hours and a bit pricier for “surge” times.

The Hot Blog

Leonard Klady's Friday Estimates
Friday Screens % Chg Cume
Title Gross Thtr % Chgn Cume
Venom 33 4250 NEW 33
A Star is Born 15.7 3686 NEW 15.7
Smallfoot 3.5 4131 -46% 31.3
Night School 3.5 3019 -63% 37.9
The House Wirh a Clock in its Walls 1.8 3463 -43% 49.5
A Simple Favor 1 2408 -50% 46.6
The Nun 0.75 2264 -52% 111.5
Hell Fest 0.6 2297 -70% 7.4
Crazy Rich Asians 0.6 1466 -51% 167.6
The Predator 0.25 1643 -77% 49.3
Also Debuting
The Hate U Give 0.17 36
Shine 85,600 609
Exes Baggage 75,900 62
NOTA 71,300 138
96 61,600 62
Andhadhun 55,000 54
Afsar 45,400 33
Project Gutenberg 36,000 17
Love Yatri 22,300 41
Hello, Mrs. Money 22,200 37
Studio 54 5,300 1
Loving Pablo 4,200 15
3-Day Estimates Weekend % Chg Cume
No Good Dead 24.4 (11,230) NEW 24.4
Dolphin Tale 2 16.6 (4,540) NEW 16.6
Guardians of the Galaxy 7.9 (2,550) -23% 305.8
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 4.8 (1,630) -26% 181.1
The Drop 4.4 (5,480) NEW 4.4
Let's Be Cops 4.3 (1,570) -22% 73
If I Stay 4.0 (1,320) -28% 44.9
The November Man 2.8 (1,030) -36% 22.5
The Giver 2.5 (1,120) -26% 41.2
The Hundred-Foot Journey 2.5 (1,270) -21% 49.4