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David Poland

By David Poland

Weekend Estimates by Klady: Episode 8 – The Box Office Taken For Granted [COMMENTS HAVE SPOILERS]

Weekend Estimates 2017-12-17 at 9.22.31 AM

The fourth $200 million opening ever.

The Force Awakens doubled its opening gross on the second Friday on their run. Will we be reporting a $440 million domestic cume for The Last Jedi next Saturday morning (or in the case of other outlets, presuming to try to be first, even if it’s just a guess)?

Force did $240 million more between the second Friday through the third.

Disney got their opening, even though Thursday night was not as insane as last time… now other landmarks are ahead.

All the guesswork about why it did this or that or how “real audiences” feel about the film… don’t know yet.

This is the film that fixes the bland imitation of the past that was Episode VII with smart, new ideas that can lead to a Star Wars future that is about the next set of rebels, not about the history of the franchise. To be fair, maybe the JJ mirror-fest was needed to get into the next era. But Last Jedi is a beginning, not a middle movie or closer. I am anxious to see it again. That wasn’t true for Force Awakens.

Ferdinand opened weakly. A bit of a recovery on Saturday, as younger kids showed up. But $13 million for a major-studio animated film is anguish.

A24 has tw of the Top 10 this weekend…impressive.

Here is the Oscar-hopeful breakout for this weekend

OScar hopefuls2017-12-17 at 9.50.34 AM

Wonder is the only movie currently in theaters on more than 1,100 screens looking to mount an Oscar push. The Post and All The Money In The World are coming. Phantom Thread, a dark horse to do a lot better than expected come the morning of Oscar nomination announcements, is also coming, though I don’t expect them to go wide to start.

The done-at-the-box-office group of contenders:

Dunkirk – $188,045,546
Get Out – $175,484,140
Baby Driver – $107,825,862
Blade Runner 2049 -$91,385,254
The Big Sick – $42,873,127
Wind River – $33,800,859
Victoria & Abdul – $22,157,715
Detroit – $16,790,139

144 Responses to “Weekend Estimates by Klady: Episode 8 – The Box Office Taken For Granted [COMMENTS HAVE SPOILERS]”

  1. PcChongor says:

    Am I reading it correctly that “Loving Vincent” has made it to $6 million? Seems like a wonderful number given how long its production took.

    With Iger set to become Supreme Chancellor next year, A24 is single-handedly maintaining my faith in the continuance of interesting American cinema. Glad to see them have such a fantastic fall and winter.

  2. palmtree says:

    TLJ doing more in one weekend as Justice League in its entire 5 weekends has got to hurt.

  3. GdB says:

    It seems to be the more casual a Star Wars fan you are, the more likely to like TLJ. But the hardcore fans who drive the ancillary markets really hate this film and the preceived dump taken on Luke Skywalker.


    We were set up to believe in TFA by Han that Luke had gone searching for the first Jedi temple. Insinuating he went looking for a power or answer to save his nephew the same way he tried to save his father.. Instead we got a Luke who ran away like a little bitch after considering murdering his nephew.

    *** End Spoilers***

    That. Is. Not. In. Character.

    No matter how much time has passed and changed that behavior change is not the character fans have known for 40yrs so they’re not having RJ pull the rug out and seemingly pull the same kind of deconstruction on Luke that Snyder did with Superman.

    I’m telling you, this bait and switch really really pissed off fans who spend the $$ on the toys and collectibles in a way no critic or moviegoer ever will.

    Audience score on RT already dropped back down a point after gaining it.

    This movie left such a bad taste in fan circles I keep reading about people cancelling collectible orders or wanting to sell all Disney sequel merch and just stick to the Lucas era.

    Hamill tried to warn the fans passively in the press putting it out ahead that he didn’t agree with the changes to the character. I wonder how he’s enjoying his slice of “I was right.”

    It will be interesting to see how ancillary markets are affected from this. As they definitely will be.

    ETA: Say what you want about JJ and TFA, but at least he honored the characters. He set Luke up not to be in exile, but searching for a greater power to save his nephew. That is in character and honoring the character. RJ took a hammer to all the setups JJ had with TFA. I would have no problem if JJ did turnabout and brought Luke back and have his true hero moments we want to see. It’s a space fantasy anything can happen.

  4. Alex says:


    @ GdB: You are right. Add to this the facts that both Snokes story and Reys parents are pretty much pointless and you have up to 3 big issues for people that actually are interested in these characters and their stories.

    I also was annoyed from the beginning because for 15 minutes I thought they’re copying a previous movie – again (the whole evacuation). A few bad jokes, especially with Hux. Then the weak Finn/Poe storyline. All just meh. But I actually liked most of the stuff after the casino planet. Especially the visuals in Snokes throne room and the ice/salt-planet. And the ending is fine I think.

  5. Monco says:

    “film that fixes the bland imitation of the past that was Episode 7 with smart, new ideas“

    Please. The plot was so stupid it was laughable. It played like a parody.

  6. GdB says:


    I think the Snoke thing is the second biggest grievance. Fans of the film are making the excuse backstory doesn’t matter because it didn’t matter for Palpatine. Bullshit. Fans that drive the ancillary markets want to know:

    1. Who Snoke really is?
    2. How did he get so powerful in the dark side under the nose of Palpatine and Vader and the rule of two?
    3. How did, and why was he able to seduce Ben away from a Jedi Master uncle who loves him?
    4. What did Snoke show Ben Solo about Vader that justfyed going to the dark side over Luke and began his Vader obsession?

    3 out of those 4 questions are pertinent to the narrative in a way the Emperor’s backstory never was..

    Many are saying how it seems RJ really hated TFA and purposely took the hammer to all of JJ’s setups. Leaving him nothing to work with for IX. Going by the cut of the film, its not hard to believe.

  7. JS Partisan says:


    “Personally, I think this is the film that fixes the bland imitation of the past that was Episode 7 with smart, new ideas that lead to a Star Wars future… ”

    I won’t be too hard on you, Dave. You haven’t read the comics, or watched Rebels. You don’t know, that the comics, books, and Rebels have set up more exciting and ideas for the future, then anything in this film. THE BENDU, Dave. THE BENDU!

    Also, what critics like you seem to be`missing, is that Episode VII excited people for the franchise. It gave people new and exciting characters, and new mysteries about what’s happening to this world. How were we repaid? A MOUTHFUL OF GREEK SALAD!”

    “that is about the next set of rebels, not about the history of the franchise. To be fair, maybe the JJ mirror-fest was needed to get into the next era. But Last Jedi is a beginning, not a middle movie or closer. I know that I am anxious to see it again. That wasn’t true for me of Force Awakens.”

    And no one asked for them to give us a future that wasn’t familial, wasn’t about the past, and wasn’t about characters we love. This whole premise, is just garbage. Why? TFA is a fun, fast paced romp. TLJ is a slog, that rips off Master and Commander, and it shits in my mouth. Excuse me, and millions more, for not being excited about what comes next. If JJ promises to take a bat to this garbage film, then maybe. Just maybe. I will get excited for it.

    What comes next for this supposed Star Wars film, is a drop. Hopefully, it’s big enough to send a message, but five or six hundred million is close to given. It still screams Jurassic World numbers to me, but you never know how much the anger will fester.

    ETA: Snoke had a ring from Vader’s Mustafar home. Why?

    Why did he have DRAPES IN FUCKING SPACE?

    Who were those assholes, that apparently saw multi-dimensionally for him?

    Rian Johnson is a failed director and writer, because he doesn’t seem to understand that you have to EXPLAIN THINGS! He has exciting ideas, but doesn’t explain anything. He’s like Admiral Holdo, and we are all Poe Dameron. If he just TOLD US WHAT’S HAPPENING, but he is like, “Nah. It doesn’t matter.”

  8. Sideshow Bill says:

    The fighting over Star Wars just amuses me. Haven’t seen it yet so I’m not making a judgement either way. But I’m 46, almost 47. I LOVE STAR WARS. Love it. Grew up with it. But the fanboyish, invested in every nuance of every character part of me has faded. People saying they know what is and isn’t out of character for Luke…well, we all have our interpretations and that’s fair. I’ve avoided spoilers for the most part but from what I read here about Luke’s arc i can’t say I’m discouraged. I’m interested in that idea.Whether it plays for me in the film has yet to be determined but I’m not turned off at all by it.

    I’m really happy the fanboy part of me has settled down. I still love shit. I still get riled. I’m not happy about what they’re doing with the Dark Phoenix X-Men film. But It doesn’t keep me awake at night anymore and I don’t spend hours arguing on the internet about it. My love for cinema has never been stronger but my passion for the geek stuff has matured. unlike….I dunno…one particular person who posts here and DOES CAPS LOCK AND COMMAS A LOT,,,,,,CAPS LOCK DON’T QUIT!

  9. JS Partisan says:

    It’s not fanboy shit, you fucking dolt. IT’S JUST A RESPONSE TO CINEMA! Here. I will make it easy for you, because you are 47, but don’t grasp shit too easily.

    “Hi. I am TFA.”

    “Hi. I am TLJ.”

    “I give you a fast pace, action packed movie, and introduce you to new characters, and what’s happening in the world of Star Wars.”

    “I give you a Master and Commander naval battle IN SPACE! I also give you some action, and you know those characters that you introduced?”


    “I either make them pointless, dumb, or heartless. I take everything that made you excited for the next generation of Star Wars, and dump it in the trash.”

    “But what about Luke?”

    “He’s an asshole.”

    “But… he’s supposed to make things right! He sent the map to Lars Son Tekka for a reason!”

    “Nope. He didn’t. If he did? Didn’t matter?”

    “What about Rey’s parents?”

    “Oh. She’s an overpowered nobody.”


    “Yeah. The kids call her, ‘Reyno.'”

    “Did anything I set up for you, have any payoff?”


    “Well. I guess I will just leave now. Thanks for not paying off the THIRD BIGGEST FILM oF ALL TIME. I am sure, that will work out for you.”

    “Fingers crossed.”

    Eat a comma, bitch. I love all film, and your stupid ass gets excited for shit horror films. I guess you are one of those special horror fans, that think you are just better. Why don’t you shove a gremlin up your ass, and have a festive holiday season :D!

  10. Sideshow Bill says:

    You’re too easy.

  11. Doug R says:

    Just watched the Obi-Wan/Darth fight again. Obi doesn’t hit anything but Darth’s lightsaber and disappears as Darth is trying to hit him.
    Was old Ben really there at all?

  12. Monco says:

    Sideshow, I simply agree with the man who created the character with Lucas:

    “I at one point had to say to Rian, ‘I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character.” – Mark Hamill

    But you’re going with the “it’s for kids, get a life” argument. That is always an unarguable point we won’t be able to win. But as others have said the people who this stuff matters to is the reason Disney paid 6 billion for the franchise.

  13. Sideshow Bill says:

    Lucas and JS wanted pure slavish brand management. Apparently, Rian Johnson did something else. I interested in seeing that something else. Nothing I’ve heard has turned me off one iota.

    Also, Rogue One is good, and don’t say you love “all film” and then say you hate horror. It’s OK if you don’t like horror movies but if you do then you don’t love “all film.” I don’t particularly care for musicals but I watch them and give them a chance. I like things from all genres. It’s a quibble, yeah, but it’s just another example of how JS talks out of both sides of his gigantic mouth.

  14. Amblinman says:

    Y’know, defend the film or don’t but anyone responding with “Its a movie, dork boy, get over it” on a MOVIE BLOG is a schmuck.

  15. That Guy says:

    Most of the complaints about THE LAST JEDI are from a bunch of fanboy whiners.

    What did the original trilogy tell us about Palpatine? ZILCH. He’s a title mentioned in ANH. He appears as a hologram in ESB. He’s in the last half of ROTJ and he’s awesome but he doesn’t exactly give a rundown of his life’s history before he dies. That stuff was all from Extended Universe garbage and the prequels.

    “Oh they made Luke a coward!” No, they made him human. Like he was in ROTJ. He felt driven to do something horrible and reconsidered, and felt so much shame he hid himself away from everyone he ever knew. Tragic. He redeems himself in this movie. It’s called a character arc. And he’ll probably be in the next as a force ghost.

    Beginning the process of separating the Star Wars franchise from the redneck Skywalker family was going to happen, and it makes sense for it to happen in the penultimate chapter.

    Episodes 1-9 is about the Skywalker blood line and there’s one left, Kylo. Guess what, he’s probably going to die in episode 9 and that’ll be that for the Skywalker bloodline.

    Some hardcore fans would love to see movies about Luke and Han’s kids and grandkids and cousins and postmen for the rest of their lives but why subject the rest of us? That’s what the EU is for, fanboys who want their fan service ladled out thick and greasy.

  16. JS Partisan says:

    Bill, keep the fuck up. I love horror films, but I am not excited for them. You and SB (not throwing you under the bus, fella. Just pointing something out.), have geeked out about horror films in this blog, and you give me shit for loving comic book films. You see the problem there? One genre isn’t inherently better than the other. We can like the other more, but you just gave me shit for loving comic book films… again. I responded in kind, because most modern horror films have no soul, or just make me shrug. Excuse me for having an opinion.

    Also, Rogue One used to be good, before LFL butchered it. LFL,seemingly don’t understand the property they run. It’s not slavish devotion. It’s respecting the lore. They’ve disrespected the universe, it’s main hero, and turned Leia into a SUPERLEIA. People have a right to be upset, and to hard pass the rest of this shit.

  17. JS Partisan says:

    That Guy, you aren’t even worth the time, because the easiest response to you is… THE FUCKING PREQUELS, THAT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LOVE, AND IS SW FOR A GENERATION!

    They were raised on questions being answered, and lore being important. Everything you wrote up there, is from a bitch ass whiny fuck boi, that never loved Star Wars, and doesn’t understand how no was asking for “My parents wouldn’t let me watch Temple of Doom, because they were overly religious,” Rian “RYAN” Johnson, to destroy what the franchise means to people.

    How fucking lacking in empathy do you have to be, to think that fans having a problem with the direction of something, makes them whiners? What a shit you are.

  18. Dorney says:

    JS/IO, you are the fucking dolt.

  19. JS Partisan says:

    Who the fuck are you, and why the fuck should anyone care about you? Hmmm? Oh look! A LURKER! Oooooooooooohhhhhhh. SMDFTB!

  20. Dorney says:

    I think you know who I am. I will give you a hint “engaging smoke monster … Ha Ha Ha”. Do carry on being the dolt.

  21. Js partisan says:

    No clue, asshole. Thanks for stopping by, and SMDFTB!

  22. Joe Leydon says:

    JS: With all due respect, I would be willing to wager that most people who have faithfully followed the Star Wars movies since 1977 have never read any of the paperback tie-ins, or watched the cartoon show spin-offs. I would count myself in that number (with one exception: I did watch the Star Wars: Clone Wars feature). And like the rest of the folks in my tribe, I’m all about the movies, the movies, the movies (no treble). I agree with Dave (and there are four words I seldom string together) that the new direction taken by The Last Jedi is a fascinating, even provocative one. And if you sit down and watch all of the movies in narrative chronological order (not in the order they were released) within a week or so, I think you’ll see the new film flows smoothly out of all that has gone before.

    And FWIW: Here’s how I rank the 10 Star Wars features released so far:

    And here’s what I have to say about 10 movies that wished they were Star Wars.

  23. PcChongor says:

    Aren’t there already two goddamn Star Wars discussion threads on here? Shit’s now become like a bad case of nerd herpes that takes hold of movie sites and toy stores everywhere every Christmas. Is no one even going to mention that “Just Getting Started” somehow made almost $6 million. Who in the ever loving fuck is seeing that film!?

  24. Doug R says:

    Yeah, I read Splinter in the Mind’s Eye and the first Han Solo book which is 1.5 more Star Wars books than 95% of these movies’ ticket buyers.

  25. Ray Pride says:

    Wonder if JUST is getting money from those legendary blue-hair matinees: movies that only show before 5pm.

  26. JS Partisan says:

    Joe, with all due respect: No. Go look at how many NYT best sellers are Star Wars books. Go see how many of the comics have been in the top ten. Who do you think buys the toys? If getting you is better for LFL, than keeping me. Someone who actually participates in Force Fridays, goes to celebrations, and on and on and on. Guess what? You know what’s cooler than a 2bn dollar movie? Billions more in licensing, and if folks like me aren’t happy. You see where I am going?

    And again, who cares about the fucking direction of the movie? It’s just a garbage movie, that straight up rips of Master and Commander, and fucking has so many stupid parts to it. It’s like… if you enjoy that greek salad… Me? I like Ron Howard and the cast of Solo. After that? James Earl Jones hand clap.

  27. Arisp says:

    JS – do you ever air out your mom’s basement?

  28. palmtree says:

    Bill, you shoulda said “All too easy.”

    Joe, great list and I agreed with it all…except I’d switch one and two. But then again I wasn’t around to buy a first-run ticket as you mentioned.

    JS, if Disney doesn’t want to just make big budget film versions of existing stories, then they don’t want to. They clearly don’t feel that’s their job. And you still have the stories you like, no one took those away. Yes, you can be angry about it justifiably, but at the end of the day, those critiques are not really about a movie, but a corporate brand. The movie as a movie isn’t all that bad.

  29. JS Partisan says:

    Palm, have you read what I’ve been bothered about with this movie? Seriously? It has nothing to do with the Disney execs lying to George, and not using anything that he gave them. It has nothing to do with how they tossed away the EU, and how the EU treated the OT better in every way.

    It has everything to do with TFA. It’s not even the mysteries or anything to do with TFA. It’s that they decided, in the second film, to completely disregard the third biggest film of all time instead of following it up. They literally were given a large lane of success from TFA, and what did they do with it? They shat on the executive producer of their franchise, they shat on his movie, and they shat on Lawrence Kasdan. I’m not Kasdan’s biggest fan, but he and JJ crafted this world, and they completely threw it away. Who fucking does that?

    If TLJ was the first fucking nu-SW movie, then it’s still a bad movie. It does shit, that is just weird, and that weirdness touches every aspect of the film. How this is some revelatory moment for FILMMAKING and SW escapes me, because it’s just such a poorly made movie.

    That’s the point, palm. If you want to make X-MEN FORCE MUTANTS, then do that with THE FIRST FUCKING MOVIE! What did they do? They ripped TFA apart, and made two really bad movies in one. This is as bad as what Warners did with JL. It’s Henry Cavill’s mustache removal bad, but JL is at least fun. There’s no fun to be had. Funny moments? Sure. Outside of those, it’s just so fucking dire.

    Also, seriously, Geoff, is fucking right. There is a Disney bias out there, and it leads to LFL getting away with doing something, that’s out and out… illogical. Imagine if Lionsgate or Summit, decided to completely undo everything in the first films of Twilight and Hunger Games with Breaking Dawn and Catching Fire. Wouldn’t that be insane? Why isn’t it insane, when Disney does it? OH! I KNOW WHY! It’s Disney, and they get that Coen Brothers pass.

    If you like the movie, then good for you, palm. I love Master and Commander, and didn’t need the space version.

  30. JoeLeydon says:

    JS, if you want to buy toys, please don’t think I will try to stop you, or think less of you. But your argument that people should adjust their movies to sell more merchandise is… well, sad. Put it this way: The 400 Blows never sold any Happy Meals.

    Palmtree: I hope I didn’t sound like a snob. But for me, it’s a bit like Gone with the Wind — I can watch it dozens of times, and read zillions of books and articles. But it’s never going to have the same impact on me that it had on Depression Era audiences when Scarlett O’Hara said: “As God is my witness, I’ll never be hungry again!”

  31. JS Partisan says:

    Joe, that’s a terrible fucking argument. Star Wars, is more than just the movies, and always has been. It’s the fucking toys, it’s the t-shirt, and it’s the flamethrowers. You don’t pay 4 billion, for just the movies. You pay 4 billion (and George really undervalued that shit), for the billions more you can make from merchandising. I doubt most of you know what happened with Battlefront 2, but let’s just state that a SW game being so heavily ANTI-CONSUMER. Probably changed the gaming industry. That’s the power of fucking Star Wars.

    If you make a movie, that doesn’t get people interested in anything else. The anything else, being one of the key reasons you bought shit to begin with. Well, you know, go look at those Rogue One toys.

    It’s nice of you to be like everyone fucking else on this blog, and not understand fandom. Not understand being a fan, but guess what? You think Bob Iger likes seeing his film having a lower score on RT than fucking Attack of the Clones? Hell no. You might not get it, but they do, and they are probably hoping for the best right now. It’s not like they will shit on Jurassic World money, but they have got to hope enough people will be duped to see it over the holiday weeks, and ignoring the anger online. Hell. The Hollywood fucking Reporter put out a bullshit article about the anger today, and it completely doesn’t get it either. It’s simple: if this is what you wanted to do in the first place, then why didn’t you start this way?

    And motherfucker, who wouldn’t want a 400 fucking Blows god damn happy meal? Seriously? GREAT ARTHOUSE CINEMA HAPPY MEALS! NOW AT McDONALDS! COMING UP! BERGMAN MONTH! You’ve got to think fourth dimensionally.

    ETA: Putting this here: Hamill said rehashing one of his lines with Mashable. “I’m just saying, what could have happened between the last time we saw him and now for him to be that way? Even if it was the worst thing in the world, I said to [Johnson], ‘Jedis don’t give up.‘”

  32. Nick says:

    what are “the smart new ideas” TLJ supposedly puts forward? everything about this film is bland.

  33. JS Partisan says:

    Nick, I have no fucking idea. It’s a total fucking void, because it ripped out the heart of SW, and threw it into a trash bin. Again, why should anyone care, when they just rebooted the rebooted fucking movie?

  34. brack says:

    While the questionable fan rating on Rottentomatoes is in the 50s, the Cinema Score was an A, the same as The Force Awakens. So yeah, something fishy there at RT.

  35. David Poland says:

    The most stupid Last Jedi argument is that it is some sort of suck up to Disney and commerciality.

    If Rian wanted to suck up to insure more easy money, make Rey related to the past stars, put those old stars front and center and keep them there, and make sure there is a Death Star.

    Instead, we get a movie that leads to a future of a tiny band of rebels trying to bring down the next generation Empire. How could they possibly? All kinds of dangers ahead for the franchise based on the ideas in this film. Like it or hate it, the idea that it is lazy or not trying is just stupid.

  36. palmtree says:

    “It’s simple: if this is what you wanted to do in the first place, then why didn’t you start this way?”

    JS, I think that was the whole point. *SPOILER KINDA*

    We’ve seen the reveal of famous parentage before and it’s become a cliche in its own right. The only real twist left is…well, exactly what they pulled here…make the movie about how everything you think will happen is actually a weirdly narrow-minded construct. It may be an insane and problematic approach, but it is actually saying something. It’s just not necessarily what you wanted it to say.

    And you keep repeating this Master and Commander thing as if the original Star Wars wasn’t also an amalgam of influences from Hidden Fortress and Buck Rodgers, etc.

    Joe, for me it was Forrest Gump, which I’ve come to realize isn’t all that great. But still, because it came at the right moment in my life, it will always be this weirdly perfect emotional experience (even if intellectually I despise it).

  37. Nick says:

    love seeing people try to rationalize the horrible plot here by twisting themselves into circles. now star wars isn’t about epic mythology. now it’s cynical. now it’s about people that have nothing to do with anything interesting because…that’s real life. please. star wars has turned into pc propaganda. virtua signaling at its very finest. maybe the greatest headline to define this was rian proudly proclaiming that star wars is indeed ready for a female director!*

    *he’s directing the next big trilogy.

  38. MarkVH says:


    Weird that I find myself agreeing with JS (not about the TFA stuff, though, since I thought TFA mostly sucked), but I’m just really not feeling the new direction here. You can expand the mythology without betraying it, and the whole thing re: Rey’s parentage feels like a big “fuck you” to the OT. So odd that they chose to go this way.

    Other random thoughts:

    It feels every bit of those 150 minutes. Endless.

    Rey is still a nothing character and I couldn’t give less of a shit about her.

    Liked Dern a lot and wish they kept her around.

    Some great visuals, especially the light-speed-jump-through-the-imperial-ships and the Luke-Kylo samurai battle. Shame they were wasted on such a crappy story.

    WTF is up with the projection shit? People can touch you only when you want them to (e.g., when you’re light-saber-battling them)? Makes no sense.

    The Finn/Rose stuff on the casino planet was as bad as anything in the prequels. Also some really shitty expository dialogue that felt prequel-like too (Leia’s “Hope has gone out of the resistance…” or whatever)

    Nothing new here, but Phasma may be the most useless character in SW history.

    The editing in this movie is a fucking mess. Just bounces from one storyline to another with no rhyme or reason. There’s no flow, no rhythm. Really contributes to feeling the length.

    Kylo is less interesting now than he was at the end of TFA, even though I really like Driver in the part.

    I kind of hate that they spent all of TFA building Luke up as the great savior of the Resistance, and then they never actually got him off the island before killing him off. I guess this sort of thing could be viewed as clever to some, but to me it’s a giant cop-out.

    I have no idea how they wrap this up and…more importantly…I don’t really care.

    I’d be perfectly fine if I never saw this again (though, with two young sons, I don’t imagine that’s realistic).

    So many different directions Disney could have gone in with this trilogy, I’m still disappointed that just decided to rehash the “Rebellion vs. Evil Empire” stuff. Boring.

    I’m not a “fanboy” and haven’t really felt invested in Star Wars for a long time, though I was hoping to be delighted by these new movies in the same way that the OT delighted me when I was growing up. But even as a more casual fan, this felt like a mediocre movie and a bad Star Wars one. It’s not about geek obsession over minutiae. It’s about a fundamental betrayal of the foundation Lucas laid, and that really does matter. Love it or hate it, it ain’t really Star Wars.

  39. Sideshow Bill says:

    “Amblinman says:
    December 17, 2017 at 1:34 pm

    Y’know, defend the film or don’t but anyone responding with “Its a movie, dork boy, get over it” on a MOVIE BLOG is a schmuck.”

    That’s a fair criticism of what I said. I won’t retract what I said but I will take that criticism, consider it and be better in the future. Respect, Amblinman.

    See, JS. That’s how it’s done. That’s called discourse, being magnanimous, mature….ya know, admitting when you might have been wrong. But you’ve never ever been even a little bit wrong or off-target, have you?


    (btw comparing yourself to a failed screenwriter with anger issues isn’t a good look but rock on, kiddo).

    I’m seeing the film Sunday afternoon. I’ll refrain from saying anything else about the movie until then. If I agree with JS I’ll admit as much.

    Anyway, petty feuds aside….KILLING OF A SACRED DEER. Holy shit. I was entranced from beginning to end. Still gathering my thoughts on it but it’s a keeper.

    Can’t wait to pick up my Blu Ray of MOTHER! this week and revisit that.

    JS, your comment about shoving a gremlin up my ass and having a festive holiday made me chuckle. I just might do that.

  40. Amblinman says:

    Mark summed it up perfectly. (Minus TFA, I loved it.)

  41. Hcat says:

    If you have spent 40 years buying the merchandise it does not mean you own Star Wars, it just means you own a lot of toys.

    Yes they make a shitload of money on toys and tshirts, and certainly that went into consideration of the price of buying Lucasfilm, but the idea that the reason they made the prequels or the new trilogy, to continue the most beloved and successful franchise created was based on the idea that some people were still buying toys throughout the eighties and nineties is fucking nonsensical. This is Star Wars not Cars. Without a single piece of ancillary merchandise this shit would get made.

    And a quick question to these True Believer Star Wars fans who hate this film, Are you still buying this the first day its available on video?

  42. MarkVH says:

    Oh, and one more SPOILER-related item:

    Yoda torching the Jedi temple seems cool in theory and makes for a fun moment, but Empire explicitly laid out that Force ghosts can’t interact with the physical world. “If you choose to face Vader you must do it alone. I cannot interfere.” One more big “fuck you” to the OT.

    This stuff matters.

  43. amblinman says:

    “Oh, and one more SPOILER-related item:

    Yoda torching the Jedi temple seems cool in theory and makes for a fun moment, but Empire explicitly laid out that Force ghosts can’t interact with the physical world. “If you choose to face Vader you must do it alone. I cannot interfere.” One more big “fuck you” to the OT.

    This stuff matters.”

    No it doesn’t. It’s going off in an exciting new direction! Y’know, the one that involves New Mutant Jedis and a storyline centered on a David and Goliath battle. SO new!

  44. Hcat says:

    So are there going to be enough available screens in the next two weeks to allow Murder and Daddy’s Home claw to a hundred million ala Kingsmen?

  45. JS Partisan says:

    Bill, you got pissed off at me, over a misunderstanding. May you and Stripe have a festive holiday season. Also, it’s named after McWeeney, because that’s how he used to respond to things almost 20 years ago.

    Hcat, is that what I wrote? No, I wrote that the power of the force toyline showed, that there was still life out there for these properties. They didn’t get the prequels made, but they did play a part in the special editions.

    Palm, why do I bring up Master and Commander? SPACE BATTLES SHOULDN’T WORK THAT WAY! They haven’t worked like that, in any Star Wars film until this one. It’s a weird film to reference for Star Wars, but Rian Johnson is just a weird dude.

    I agree completely with Mark and Man again. While Hcat, fuck and god damn no. I keep reading people online going on about having to see that shit twice, and it just reminds me of 2002 Spider-man. A movie so fucking bad, that my brother and I had to see it TWICE, on consecutive nights to confirm it was as bad as we thought it was. I’ve seen this goofy shit once. That’s enough. There’s no way I am giving them any more fucking money for this shit film.

    Again, I am looking forward to Solo, and after that? James Earl Jones hand clap.

  46. Dr Wally Rises says:

    “Oh, and one more SPOILER-related item:

    Yoda torching the Jedi temple seems cool in theory and makes for a fun moment, but Empire explicitly laid out that Force ghosts can’t interact with the physical world. “If you choose to face Vader you must do it alone. I cannot interfere.” One more big “fuck you” to the OT.

    This stuff matters.”

    Nope,in Return of the Jedi Obi Wan rests his distinctly non-corporeal butt on a rock to chat to Luke. I’ll kind of give a pass on this one, Johnson does foreshadow the ending when Kylo feels the rainwater from the island on his hand. And the cut opening of Return of the Jedi on the Blu Ray does show Luke and Vader talking to each other across space.

  47. MarkVH says:


    Eh, I don’t buy it. If Force ghosts can fuck shit up, why doesn’t Yoda use his lightning-bolt-bringing-non-corporeal self to torch the giant First Order ships and save thousands of Resistance lives in the process? Can Force ghosts only blow up inanimate objects? If so, why?

  48. JS Partisan says:

    They weren’t talking. They were sensing one another. They also weren’t across space. They were on different ships within a football field’s link of each other.

    Also, Old Ben sits on the log, because Alec’s fucking knees hurt. That’s the story, but he didn’t touch Luke. He just sat on a log, because the actor’s knees hurt. How is this same, as Yoda destroying a tree? What bullshit that scene is. What absolute garbage.

  49. palmtree says:

    Mark, I kinda agree with most of your assessment. But yeah, some of the things you hated I just hated less, or at least was intrigued by, or considered annoying but not a dealbreaker.

    JS, I guess that Master and Commander comment makes more sense now. But the whole idea of remaking well-known naval movies in space sounds awesome! I’d be first in line for The Hunt for Red October…IN SPACE!

  50. palmtree says:

    JS, in the other thread you were saying the island is the most force-yist place in the entire galaxy, so then being able to have special powers there makes sense. And now those special powers are a plot hole? Honestly, I thought your explanation was pretty cool the first time around. Don’t change!

  51. Hcat says:

    Wow, that is a very strong No Thank You response for Wonder Wheel. This looks like his weakest performing film since Cassandra’s Dream got a dumped release from Weinstein. So after decades of being hounded by the allegation Allen finally became too toxic for his loyal audience. I don’t see Amazon picking up his next film after both this anemic launch and their own internal problems, and I doubt anyone else is going to be lining up to take a PR hit to be in the Woody Allen business.

    JS, that was more for the GDB guy than you, though you both seem to be on the same page as far as what the franchise owes you. You are perfectly entitled to hate a movie and the choices that were made by it. Its just the whole ‘I am a bigger star wars fan than others because I own more t-shirts than you’ attitude that irks me. I’m interested in your take on where this went wrong just not on how you are delivering it. But of course how you deliver your thoughts are not up to me, I’m not the schoolmarm here. But the idea that Star Wars was not the same experience for all of us because many of us didn’t build the legos into our forties or buy the continued novelizations is crap. I can love the movie and the subsequent ones without making it a hobby or religion.

  52. Hcat says:

    As far as Hunt for Red October in Space…I would love that as well…unless someone could find a better example I would have to say that the revamped Battlestar Galactica got the closest to how actual ships might travel and maneuver in a gravity free firefight. Wrath of Khan seems somewhat close as well, though that was mostly just two models exchanging body blows.

  53. MarkVH says:

    It doesn’t cover all of my issues with the movie, but I thought Alyssa Rosenberg’s assessment of TLJ in WaPo was particularly astute:

    Star Wars or otherwise, it troubles me that we keep letting movies like it off the hook for shitty storytelling just because they’re “fun” or tickle the nostalgia bone.

    And I’ve repeated it ad nauseum, but to me, the textbook case for how to re-launch a franchise and make it matter is Creed. Respectful of the legacy (even the shitty parts) while charting an interesting path forward and making us care. Star Wars, for me, fails in both.

  54. JS Partisan says:

    Palm, I agree with them, but that shit works inside of the world. Of course, Rian can’t explain it in the movie, because LORE IS SO SCARY!

    Hcat, there is a difference between being a fan, and liking something. We’ve had this discussion on this blog before, and the point still stands, for me at least: Liking and loving are not the same thing, and I love this shit. You like this shit. Thus the difference.

    It can irk you all you want. I am constantly irked, that fandom of any kind perplexes you, and leads to scorn. Look at the shit I am getting, for disliking a movie, and look at the shit others aren’t getting. Fucking Poland takes a shot at me, like I posted all 90 post in that other damn thread. I can go on and on, but I am a huge SW fan. This film is shit, and that’s ignoring everything it did to TFA.

    It’s my choice not to care. It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has everything to do, with hating the story choices, and thus not wasting my time on this saga.

  55. Doug R says:

    Why the big deal about Yoda torching the temple? He used lightning, which is a charge negating itself between the atmosphere and something on the ground. This was Jedi central, I think there’s some energy here. All Yoda has to do is move energy around.
    Nick, why the lazy right wing talking points? You missed S(ocial) J(ustice) W(arrior) and cuck(old). Surprise you didn’t slip in a M(ake) A(nnikin) G(reat) A(gain).

  56. JS Partisan says:

    Doug, it doesn’t matter. Disney and LFL, have decided it just doesn’t matter, so shrug.

  57. MarkVH says:

    It’s weird how much I agree with JS about this movie, but in general I’m troubled by the number of people championing TLJ not despite it big “fuck you” to the original trilogy and the series’ overall mythology and characters, but because of it. It seems like such a cynical move – ignore history and just focus on the future! – and “progressive” in all the wrong ways. If major pieces of the mythology can be thrown out with the stroke of a keyboard, then why should we care about any of it?

  58. Hcat says:

    “I love this shit. You like this shit. Thus the difference”

    That is the whole point, I love Star Wars and you dismiss it because I haven’t read the Dark Horse comic series or some other obscure qualifier that you would have for fandom. I saw the original Star Wars, loved it, end of story. You do not get to define how I feel about it.

    “Look at the shit I am getting, for disliking a movie,”

    You are not getting shit for disliking a movie you are getting shit because it sounds like you are having a brain hemorrhage over the film. There have been plenty of others that have expressed boredom to outright disgust at the film and nobody called them out because they can express their opinion at conversational level that is a bit calmer than an orangutan tossing its feces.

  59. JS Partisan says:

    Mark, that’s my problem. If anything is replaceable, then why should any of us care, about any of these characters? It’s the point I keep making: if anyone can be Rey, then why should we care about Rey? This should be writing 101, and someone should have made this point.`

    Hcat, why would I want to have a discussion, with a piece of shit like you? Did you read what you just wrote? It’s not only racist and degrading, but it demonstrates you just don’t care about anyone but you. Fuck off.

    The hot blog: where you can be racist and hurl around fucking mental illness quips, but god fucking forbid you give a FUCK! THAT’S JUST FORBIDDEN! Being racist and hateful though? BRING THAT ON!

  60. Hcat says:

    Everyone who bothered to post gives a fuck, they are just able to do so as adults, without having everything be a an irreversible tear against their psyche.

    And racist my ass, Christ man, is there anything that doesn’t wound you to the core? Get a grip on yourself.

  61. palmtree says:

    The review that Mark mentions from WaPo does a great job of critiquing it all, but then…still has room to enjoy Rey’s parentage twist. That review probably comes closest to how I feel.

    JS, storytelling 101? What makes a hero a hero isn’t famous parents and it isn’t having superpowers. It just seems like every big movie has had the cliche of the hero being the One who is chosen by lineage or superpowers or both and must become who they were meant to be. But that was never the hero’s journey, just a glorified case for aristocracy. It’s lazy (i.e. actually bad storytelling).

  62. JS Partisan says:

    Hcat, you still miss the fucking point, but you are Captain fucking Obtuse. Again… door, because I would never refer to anyone as a fucking ape, but you did real easy. I wonder why? Hmmm. Door.

    Palm, we will just disagree, because Joseph Campbell was a friend of George’s. Look online for their joint interview. I doubt Mr. Hero’s Journey would side with you, but you never know. The Force isn’t a meritocracy. It never has been. If it were, there would be more than two siths, because the best siths would rise to the top not just the ones left standing.

    Again, if anyone can be the hero, then what’s the point of focusing on Rey? That’s the question you and people who like this shit, aren’t answering. The movie doesn’t even end with her. It ends with some little white boy, being the hero. That’s such a fucked up message, but again… if anyone can be THE HERO, then what’s the point of Rey? There isn’t one, outside of subverting expectations and lore.

  63. Hcat says:

    Please share with me the point then, other than you didn’t like a fucking movie that you were looking forward to, which you have a lot of company with, but you are the only one throwing a weeklong tantrum about it. But again anyone points out your behavior and you are being either silenced because of your opinions, or ganged up on.

    You complain that I care only about myself while the whole time you have been dismissing others because they are not true fans that love as deeply or care as much. The only thing worse than having every third movie be this tentpole IP bullshit is listening to you whine and bitch for a month prior and after release about how they are fucking everything up.

  64. JS Partisan says:

    Whine and bitch and moan? Fuck you. That’s all your old ass has done, that’s all a lot of you old white bastards do, if I dare share a fucking opinion. One more time, because this is how fucking egregious you fucks can be. You literally had a 100 plus post thread about Battleship and other movies, not being that bad.

    I fucking dare to have a fucking opinion and be vocal about it, and you fucks get your gray ball hairs all in a twist. You’re the fucking ones who throw little tantrums and hurl insults, when I don’t dare fit in your little bullshit box of what a film fan, a cinephile is supposed to be. Which is funny, because I’m watching damn near anything that interest me… all the damn time.

    Your fucking ass, Hcat. Can’t even get his decaying ass to the fucking theatre, but somehow I’m the problem? Again, fuck you. If you are going to be an asshole, and not understand it’s not a tantrum. It’s criticism, then fucking find that door, and don’t let it hit you on the motherfucking ass. Here’s some just for men, just in case you want to cover up down there.

    And Poland, you are the most absolutist motherfucker I know. If it doesn’t fit in your paradigm. You rage against it, you try to twist numbers to your point, then ignore them when they don’t work for you. Look in the mirror, Sonny Jim. You’re a worse me than me !

  65. palmtree says:

    JS, yeah, I know they were friends. In fact even better is The Power of Myth, the multi-part interview series with Campbell and Bill Moyers shot on Skywalker Ranch. In it, Campbell lays down that becoming a hero is an internal struggle we all face, not some special chosen one contrivance. We care about Rey because of the changes she has to go through and the choices she makes along her journey and the flaws she has to overcome. Rey’s twist places the story much closer to Campbell’s heroes.

  66. Sideshow Bill says:

    JS Wrote:

    “Bill, you got pissed off at me, over a misunderstanding. May you and Stripe have a festive holiday season. Also, it’s named after McWeeney, because that’s how he used to respond to things almost 20 years ago.”

    And you got pissed because I made a “mental illness quip.” As someone who has battled sever mental illness since my teens (I’m 46) i reserve the right to quip about it. In fact, one of the ways i cope is I have –get this– A SENSE OF HUMOR ABOUT IT. I make self-depracating jokes and comments all the time, day in and day out. It helps me cope. Again, do not fucking talk down to me on this subject. Do not act all high and mighty. You’re being a dick. Having a sense of humor about life and film and problems is probably foreign to you. Get one. You’ll live longer.

    And one correction: I have NEVER piled on you for getting excited about superhero/comic book films. I’m an unabashed fan of the genre. I’m with you for the most part. It’s just that, as I said, you’re kind of a dick about everything and therefore you’re an easy target.

    HCAT wrote:

    “Everyone who bothered to post gives a fuck, they are just able to do so as adults, without having everything be a an irreversible tear against their psyche.”

    THIS. EXACTLY THIS. Everything to you, JS, is an absolute. “an irreversible tear against their psyche.” That’s why I poked you about the StarWars fanboyism. You seem to be one very tightly wound dude.

    That being said, happy holidays, JS. Have fun with your child and wife. My kids are older and some of the magic is gone. Enjoy it. And try and find some peace over Luke’s character arc.

  67. palmtree says:

    And let’s not forget we live in a world where we get another John Williams score. Things could be much worse.

  68. JS Partisan says:

    Bill, I am not tightly wound what so ever, but I am not taking shit from a single fucking one of you. Not now. Not fucking ever. You haven’t fucking earned it. How am I supposed to know you have schizophrenia? I don’t follow you on any fucking social media, and you made your little quip as a DIG TO ATTACK ME, THEN YOU GET MAD AT ME FOR STATING THAT’S NOT COOL! You gave me shit AGAIN, as if you are in the fucking right to use MENTAL ILLNESS as an ATTACK!

    It’s fucking garbage, but don’t try to understand me. I don’t try to understand you. You’re just in my way, of the points that need to be made. You are either down or not. It is what it fucking it is.

  69. Hcat says:

    ‘Hcat. Can’t even get his decaying ass to the fucking theatre’

    Well that’s absolutely true, but then again I love Star Wars not Disney so I am able to wait and see others reactions and gauge if its worth the trouble. You have helped to convince me I am using my time wisely to get the Christmas things done first if I do go at all. As for these old cracks, born in 72 (and the ass is fine, the belly is what is decaying), which I think is within three years as yourself. Just because I no longer subscribe to Mad Magazine and sleep in power ranger pajamas doesn’t mean I am a senior citizen.

    And somehow you are not an ass for not knowing about his mental health, while I am a racist even though I don’t know your race?

    “I don’t try to understand you”

    That’s the fucking gospel, no one’s opinions but your own matter and the rest of us ‘don’t care enough’ or ‘don’t know the history’ even if its not the cinematic one. I have gotten on the wrong side of quite a few regulars but their interactions never devolve to the shit it does with you.

  70. Sideshow Bill says:

    LOL. I’m not mad. I don’t give a fuck what you think. This is enjoyable and passes some time. That being said, I’m not going to be lectured on mental illness and what’s appropriate, especially by a guy in the internet who seems frankly a bit unhinged.

    and yes, you don’t know for sure that I have schizophrenia, but why would I lie? I also don’t know for sure that you’re a man. Actually, I’m pretty sure you’re not. You post like a child would post.

    Sorry to be “in your way, in the way of the points you need to make”, in the rudest, most obnoxious ways possible. Yes, the point about LUKE DON’T QUIT just HAS to be made. The nation hangs in the balance as it awaits your rock-solid fansplaining.

    Again, I believe in killing ’em with kindness. Merry Christmas, dude.

  71. Hcat says:

    But moving on,

    There have been Jumanji reviews for at least a week, Post has come out to raves, but even though Jackman seems to be on a goodwill tour for the last week Showman still seems to be embargoed? Can’t imagine that bodes well.

  72. amblinman says:

    Is there anyone…really, ANYONE who cares about a PT Barnum musical? I know Jackman is desperate for a song and dance pop cultural moment but I dunno that something centered around a freakshow is the way to go in 2017.

  73. Hcat says:

    I don’t know I think the older crowd that pushed Murder on the Orient up to the century mark had to have seen the trailer for this. At a PG rating it seems decently positioned in the ‘compromise movie for the whole family slot’ Christmas break movie. If you have three generations hitting the theater together a non-offensive musical might somehow top the list.

  74. Ray Pride says:

    Social sentiment is lifted.
    Formal Review Embargo is December 20, 12:01AM PT

  75. palmtree says:

    I know people who have expressed interest in Showman. I was shocked to be honest, but the idea of Jackman in a musical does sound kinda magical around Christmas time.

  76. leahnz says:

    “Again, if anyone can be the hero, then what’s the point of focusing on Rey? That’s the question you and people who like this shit, aren’t answering. The movie doesn’t even end with her. It ends with some little white boy, being the hero. That’s such a fucked up message, but again… if anyone can be THE HERO, then what’s the point of Rey? There isn’t one, outside of subverting expectations and lore.”

    lordy help me i’m going to try to answer this, JS:

    SPOILERS (shouldn’t this all be in the spoiler thread, i feel sorry for people reading this one that haven’t seen the movie yet)

    first, can i point out that there’s still one more instalment in this trilogy to go, so we really don’t yet know exactly what the deal is with Rey or who she is, just clues (to just assume that BenRen is being a straight shooter in this regard could be folly, and the people who dumped her off as a tot may not be her biological parents at all, this concept actually has obvious precedent in the star wars ethos).
    as luke himself points out, there is something very unique and sublimely powerful about her that actually scares him and reminds him of his dear old pops, who was himself unique in his origin and such. in the pit Rey sees herself many times over, and when her parents are to be revealed, it’s herself she sees behind the glass. what if she has no ‘parents’ in the tradition sense (precedent here, too, with anakin, who had no biological father. could she be an original like him, some biological/spiritual creation without parentage as we think of it? just spitballing here but i don’t think we know yet to make any determinations)

    the jedi – those tappers-in to the energy of the light side the force – came from somewhere and even canon says they are not all skywalkers, it just so happens that the story of star wars (renamed EP IV a new hope) began with the skywalker family and their ‘saga’. but there have been other jedi through time, and i think if one thing is now clear in these new instalments its that Rey will be the lynch pin for a new era of jedi.

    asking, ‘why the focus on Rey?’ is like asking, why the focus on Anakin (if you take in the story chronologically rather than as told filling in backstory), or why was so-and-so the first jedi (sorry if this has actually been answered in all the ‘outside the movies’ SW lore, i’m a huge OG star wars dork but i have my limits of dorkdom).

    it’s not that ANYONE can be a super-force-feeler and the hero, it’s that Rey is this special person and this is her story. how she comes to reignite the jedi order.

    re: the ending that you say is ‘some little white boy being the hero’, this is reading a great deal into and projecting an assumption that is not grounded in the content of the movie. these enslaved children, we don’t know their parentage, but what’s clear is there are still force-sensitive would-be padewans out there – just as there have ALWAYS BEEN force-sensitive would-be padewans, luke had his own school for them – to bring into the fold and with whom to rebuild the jedi order (and the rebellion, one assumes).

    ymmv on how this has been executed thus far

  77. Night Owl says:

    I think I’m more on your page about the ending Leah but my read on the little boy was that it could carry over something from the Force Awakens, just not in the way I thought it would (but it could and that itself seems rare in this movie). At some point Snoke said something like “if Skywalker returns the new Jedi will rise”. Well Skywalker did return and did something so incredibly brave and insane that the story is spreading across the galaxy. Now the people with Force sensitivities hear the story and begin to rally, begin to get braver. The legend draws them out. There’s no reason they would know Skywalker “died” (“died” until his numerous appearances in Ep.9).

    It does make me curious that we now know from Luke himself that some of the students survived Kylo’s rampage. Did they all go evil? Did some run? Would they sense their former master “leaving”? Would they be inclined to follow Rey, powerful as she is, having seen Kylo snap?

  78. Amblinman says:

    “It does make me curious that we now know from Luke himself that some of the students survived Kylo’s rampage. Did they all go evil?”

    I thought these were the Knights Of Ren?

  79. leahnz says:

    yes interesting theory and questions nightowl
    i’m actually weirdly keen to see what’s in store for rey and the gang (and really, this weird EP VIII IS about family, it’s just that it’s the formation of a new type of family as the old one is killed off) in EP IX because it’s all left very up-in-the-air (rey rocks pun intended)

    everyone seems to assume in this new retool/boot/incarnation that Rey is LUKEV2.0, but she’s really more ANAKINV2.0

  80. JS Partisan says:

    Leah, my mileage is not in kilometers, so nice theory. It’s too heavy in lore and stuff, and we can’t have Lore anymore.

    Where have the Greatest Showman spots been? I haven’t seen a one. Is that movie going wide this week? Is it limited? Anyone?

  81. Bulldog68 says:

    I’m going to pull a classic JS and give a review of a movie I haven’t yet seen.

    I fucking love this movie. Even though Empre Strikes Back was to me a pivotal starting point in my love for film so much so that I ditched school at the age of twelve and cried like a little bitch when Han Solo was frozen, and basically began to worship at the altar of George Lucas, the very fact that these fucking fanboys, and I counted myself as one of them, criticized TFA for being too similar, and now trash TLJ for being too different, so much so that they are manipulating the RT scores the way Republicans gerrymander voting districts.

    Good on you Rian, for daring to fuck with the Star Wars canyon. Because we live in a world where Superman kills, Batman gives up, the Mandarin is a media ploy, and Thor is a road comedy.

    I honestly don’t know whether I’ll like TLJ when I eventually see it, but from all appearances we have a Star Wars that’s forward looking instead of looking back. So Luke Skywalker changed. So fucking what! We all change with age. Here’s hoping Jurassic Park does the same thing. If you’re going to revisit movies from my childhood, show me something new goddammit. Otherwise what’s the fucking point.

  82. JS Partisan says:

    Bulldog, did you guys just miss the spoiler revolution twenty years ago? I didn’t review the film. I discussed the spoilers and like the film? They are shit.

    Again, it’s the basic inability to fucking grasp the frustration, and shitting on people being frustrated with just poor execution all around. I can have empathy for you fuckers, but god forbid I share actual frustration… you get a hair up your ass. It’s bullshit, but Bulldog can’t decided how much bullshit he wants to shit on me or not.

    Enough of this fucking garbage… but this right here?

    “Good on you Rian, for daring to fuck with the Star Wars canyon. Because we live in a world where Superman kills,”

    And it sunk an entire fucking billion dollar enterprise.

    “Batman gives up,”

    Nah. He’s been on the job 20 years, and we are getting Jake next. Doubt he’s going to give it, but I love you fuckers get that air up your ass about this point. Go read fucking Knightfall. Go read the first arc from the New 52. It’s an established part of shit, but the fellas on the hot blog. By golly. They just can’t handle it. Schucks. ”

    “the Mandarin is a media ploy,”

    Nope. That’s still a dangling thread, because they “technically” fixed it.

    “and Thor is a road comedy.”

    It’s also a movie about choice, about what one wants to be, and what one needs to be.

  83. Bulldog68 says:

    And that’s why fanboys are fucking upset. If I have to go read a comic to understand your movie, or why you got your tits in a twister, then you’re failing to understand that these movies, as much as you wanted it to be, were not fucking made for you. .oooo1% of the people who attended Star Wars know what the new fucking 52 is. (see what I did there)

    Fanboys don’t drive the success of movies. Filmgoers do. In massive amounts. Movies are made for filmgoers seeking entertainment for their families. They don’t give a flying fuck if you know about the ultra universe, or dimension 6, or the turquoise Hulk on Planet Ragnarok in Comic Epiosode 232.

    What they hope is that their movies are broadly entertaining to appeal to the most amount of people, and while they will base their movies on all kinds of shit from the source material, they will fuck with it all they want to make that shit accessible and entertaining, and they will hold out a small hope that the fanboys will come along for the ride. Because if only fanboys liked their movies, then every Marvel movie would make World of Warcraft money at the domestic box office.

  84. Nick says:

    looking over all the reviews it seems that people who like TLJ are virtue signalling and people who don’t like it seem to want their films to have compelling narratives.

  85. Night Owl says:

    “I thought these were the Knights of Ren”

    Amblinman, apparently not. According to people who know who know this stuff far better than me the Knights of Ren pre-date the fall of Luke’s school. So they could have joined up but they wouldn’t be the originals. That’s why I’m thinking they didn’t all end up there and that’s an easy path to give Rey some experienced allies for the final fight without wasting time with her (or even Spirit Luke) having to try to train them.

    But considering they’ve done nothing with the Knights of Ren at all (I guess the name sounds cool) maybe they won’t bother. Missed opportunity though….but that’s not new in this trilogy.

  86. Dr Wally Rises says:

    Actual box office talk in the box office thread! Yes! It seems that the actuals are a hair OVER $220 million. I’ve never seen estimates and actuals be so suspiciously close on a movie this large. Just a few weeks ago for example, the finals on JL were quite significantly under the estimates. What to make of this? Just really accurate forecasting? Or did Disney want that nice round $220 million figure so badly that they found a way to get it by hook or by crook?

  87. Sideshow Bill says:

    Disappointed in the extras on the MOTHER! Blu Ray. Barely anything. That’s OK. I own the film now. But there’s no doubt a double-dip down the road. Maybe Criterion. I’ll buy it again.

    Got my Star Wars tickets for Christmas Eve day. I hope to be good and drunk by showtime.

    Nick, have you considered that people who like the film just fucking like the film? You, nor JS, are the final word on anything. Nor am I. Discourse and debate is fun and useful but at the end of the day some like it, some don’t and we move on. To use the phrase “virtue signalling” is complete douchebaggery. Why not just cal TLJ fans “snowflakes” and go piss on some poor brown people while you’re at it?

  88. Hcat says:

    By originally estimating 96 million JL would have topped Civil War and Guardians, it saved a little face to goose the numbers. Or the drop off on Sunday actually took them by surprise. But Disney had no reason to goose the numbers 225 or 230 would be effectively the same number and it always looks a little bad when things are adjusted down (even with a massive number) so why not go with honesty?

  89. palmtree says:

    Yup, and the estimates get reported more often than the actuals.

  90. JS Partisan says:

    Bulldog, you are wrong. It’s called the DCEU. You need to accept, that fans have more of a voice now than ever, so stop it with the fucking condescension. It’s so quaint, and anachronistic.

    Seriously, this whole weekend hasn’t been about box office, as much as it’s been about the RT audience score. Why? FANS. Stop hating and understand, that your voice only matters, when you speak up, and fans do that every day to these properties.

    Bill, I know people like the film. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with them. The mental gymnastic they are going through to justify this shit, is rather funny.

  91. Hcat says:

    There is no way in any plane of existence someone at Disney is euphoric about this opening only to have their mood crashed by a fan score on Rotten fucking tomatoes. Box Office is what matters (and since its Disney the merchandising as well). Some internet wailing means nothing as long as all of them bought a ticket. This is cherry picking some obscure point because it agrees with your views. Not defending the film, I dislike that Disney has the property and do not have high expectations for this or future installments.

    Did Warners get the message on how they have handled Justice League, sure, but not from the fanboys because they still paid the price of admission.

    Don’t you think the response to ‘the internet is angry about our film’ is ‘and the sun rose in the east again today’

  92. Bulldog68 says:

    “Seriously, this whole weekend hasn’t been about box office, as much as it’s been about the RT audience score. Why?”

    When the RT score is gamed by fans with motives, then it’s no longer a barometer, and in fact, has never really been. JL currently sits at 79%. TLJ made more in one weekend than JL made in 5. Suicide Squad sits at 61%, Dr Strange at 86%, yet SS bested Strange by almost $100m.

    The cinemascore, which polls actual moviegoers has TLJ with an A, ironically the same as Thor, and also the same as the last two new Star Wars movies. Metacritic has it at an 86, higher than Thor’s 73. How come you’re not quoting that? The sites that are based om better methodology have TLJ ranking higher, so exactly what is the major impact of these fanboys, when Disney has apparently put out a crowd please piece of popcorn cinema that will ensure people return for the next one. There is no requirement for people on RT to have actually seen a movie to post a bad, or good, review. It’s really a very unreliable movie thermometer.

    “FANS. Stop hating and understand, that your voice only matters, when you speak up, and fans do that every day to these properties.”

    I do agree with this part. The fans have spoken. Unfortunately you are stuck in Carly Simon song. You think it’s about you. You are not the droid they were looking for. The droids who spent $220m over the weekend were.

  93. JS Partisan says:

    Bulldog, you quoting Carly Simon not only dates you, but demonstrates how far from the norms you and most of the people on this blog are.

    And guess what? RT matters more, but please go enjoy yacht rock, and have a good day.

    Jesus fucking Christ, Hcat. If all the fanboys paid fucking admission, then it would have been right in line with fucking BvS. Stop acting as if this isn’t a fan dominated industry now, and why the fuck do you old fogies still have some fucking hate on against fanboys? Is it because you’ve lost? Probably.

  94. PcChongor says:

    So I’m not going to waste a second of time reading through the endless amount of “backlash” articles and hysterical, more-than-a-little-sporadically-all-caps comments to find out why people are so pissed about TLE, but I just saw it and felt they did an excellent job lighting J.J.’s mystery box, nostalgia fest nonsense from TFA on fire and pissing on its grave as much as a giant, mostly still safe and boring Disney produced Star Wars sequel can. Had some great visuals towards the end and even a smidge of broader political intrigue with certain characters refusing to pick sides, so I was happy with that and look forward to Johnson’s new trilogy, which will hopefully finally deliver the post-Lucas Star Wars film the world deserves.

  95. Hcat says:

    A minor point but fuming about someone changing the direction of the films of your youth is about as grumpy old man as it gets.

    I do get how you feel, I was excited about the new ‘not your father’s superman’ until I found out I was the dad that they were talking about.

  96. PcChongor says:

    That casino scene might’ve been the most subversive in film this year. Could’ve sworn I saw Iger and Murdoch doing blow off a bantha somewhere in the background!

  97. Bulldog68 says:

    “Bulldog, you quoting Carly Simon not only dates you,”

    With pride.

    “RT matters more” Looks like you should’ve taken Sean Spicer’s job on judging crowd sizes. Saying it doesn’t make it so. Show the EVIDENCE.

    I’ll agree that RT scores can matter for movies like The Shape of the Water, or Wonder. Movies that more depend on good word of mouth to break out. It mattered for The Witch, and Mother, where critics more or less went for it, while audience reactions either sank or impeded those movies from doing more at the box office.

    So stop posting declarative statements like “RT matters more” without some support for your opinion.

  98. JS Partisan says:

    Geritol Cat, you once again miss the point. I still have Luke, I still have EU Luke, and nothing Rian Johnson or LFL does changes that one bit. I am pissed at the movie, for sucking. Let me type it again, and this time read it with your glasses on. I am pissed at the movie, for sucking.

    Pc, TFA had an exciting color gaumet. TLJ looked like the bottom of a fridge, in a city apartment. It’s just ugly. Ugly and dirty..

    BD, it’s not ME FUCKING STATING IT! It’s the INDUSTRY STATING! Why don’t you stop fighting me for a fucking minute, and just google. Did you miss the fucking article the THR put out, with industry sources stating how they hate RT? Come on, man. It’s not a declarative fucking statement. It’s an industry fact right now, because the people who go to movies… the younger generation. Put a lot of faith in that score, but keep on swinging buddy. I am apparently your white whale.

  99. palmtree says:

    The gymnastics needed to appreciate TLJ = watching the movie in front of you

    The gymnastics needed to hate on TLJ = watching the movie and then comparing it to a hypothetical movie it should have been which is based on a bunch of ancillary materials most filmgoers are unaware of

  100. Bulldog68 says:

    “Did you miss the fucking article the THR put out, with industry sources stating how they hate RT? Come on, man. It’s not a declarative fucking statement. It’s an industry fact right now, because the people who go to movies… the younger generation. Put a lot of faith in that score, but keep on swinging buddy. I am apparently your white whale.”

    You’re still flapping your gums without any evidence. Show me how the RT score has affected the box office. How can you say that “people who go to the movies” hate TLJ, and quote RT scores, when there is no proof that the people who put up reviews either saw the movie, or all out admitted that they were gaming the system to drive the numbers down, and not put ANY stock in other rating systems, that actually are based on actual moviegoers? You’re cherry picking your data to match your belief system.

    Just because you say, and with no evidence, that “young people put faith in the RT score” still doesn’t make it a fact. I work in media, and I have yet to hear one 18-29 year old say “oh the RT score is too low. I’m not going to see that.”

    By the way, I have a Kenyan Birth certificate that you might be interested in buying. Millions of people believed that, so it must be true.

  101. Hcat says:

    BAH, damn new guys mucking up my Star Wars….They know who their messing with!!!! Anyone can be a Jedi…That’s NOT HOW IT WORKS!!! Did they think I wrote all that fan fiction for my HEALTH? I MAPPED IT ALL OUT FOR THEM…mess with my canon and feel my wrath!!!! I drive the dang gumb industry. My emails and letters and comiccon questions drive their creative process………They are BEHOLDEN and ONLY LISTEN TO ME AND THE FANS!!!!!! Fuckin’ 90s boy making changes I WAS IN STAR WARS UNDEROOS BEFORE YOU WERE BORN!!! STILL AM!!!!!

    Disney buying Fox THAT WAS MY DAMN IDEA!!!!! I Told them to spend 50 billion so Wolverine can fight the Hulk!!!!! BAM POW!!! That’s all me and my comic lovin’ brethren. WE DRIVE ALL THE BOATS!!!!!!! The billion dollars of Star Wars? ALL ME and The FANS….. AND THEY WILL TAKE OUR DEMANDS.



  102. MarkVH says:

    “The gymnastics needed to appreciate TLJ = watching the movie in front of you

    The gymnastics needed to hate on TLJ = watching the movie and then comparing it to a hypothetical movie it should have been which is based on a bunch of ancillary materials most filmgoers are unaware of”

    This is silly. You can not like the movie and direction Disney chose to take the franchise in without knowing anything about the expanded universe. I’m just an old-school admirer of the original trilogy who doesn’t love a) the movie in front of me AS A MOVIE or b) the direction they chose to take the story in. Like, it’s cute that they decided to basically take a chainsaw to everything interesting about the original trilogy instead of actually building something new on it, but not thinking that this is a good thing is actually a totally valid sentiment. It’s like if suddenly they made a new Godfather movie that revealed Michael was working as an undercover FBI agent this entire time. It invalidates a lot of what came before – which is what made a lot of people fall in love with it in the first place – and that matters.

    It’s not just the fanboys, and dismissing legitimate criticism of the movie as just fanboy whining (although there’s plenty of that going on) is lazy.

  103. palmtree says:

    I’m responding to a comment about “gymnastics” being necessary to appreciate the movie. And sorry, it doesn’t require any, unless it meant simply reflecting on the movie.

    Mark, I’m not dismissing legitimate criticism. Criticize away! I’ll probably agree with most of your criticisms too. Just as long as it’s based on the movie.


    (For the record, I don’t love the movie. But it’s also not a bad movie, and I have issues with the editing and the length and some of the plot holes. None of those are dealbreakers for me however.)

    No, I was talking about people who hated the movie and have a special level of vitriol aimed at it. (i.e. The people who are bringing in ideas of what the movie should have been about from outside the movie.)

  104. Sideshow Bill says:

    I watched KRAMPUS last night. It’s become a holiday favorite. I’ve interpreted the ending many different ways. But this time it bothered me because I saw it as Krampus giving up. Before his work was truly completed. If you follow canon and the Krampus Expanded Universe then you know KRAMPUS DONT QUIT!!! THE MENTAL GYMNASTICS….AND CAPS LOCK STUFF!!!!….ITS NOT ME ITS MIKE DOUGHERTY AND LEGENDARY AND THE ENTIRE STUDIO!!

    At least the PBEU gets it ri right. PAUL BLART DONT QUIT FUCKERS!!

    That stopped being funny at KRAMPUS DONT QUIT, if it was ever funny at all, but hey— there ya go.

  105. Nick says:

    are you saying the new trilogy isn’t virtue signaling? or are you saying it was but also using an ad hominem argument?

    the new films are yelling at us about many things. our original heroes are irrelevant. our desire for complexity is unwanted. and everyone is anything but white and that girls RULE. i call that virtue signalling. they do it so much that it derails most of the narrative just to fit it all in. these films are empty shells. even when it comes to action. the prequels had more memorable moments. nothing i have seen compares to the lightsaber duel in phantom menace. no imagery is as memorable as darth maul.

  106. Thunderchild says:

    I’m curious as to why dynasty with respects to Rey matters so much. My impression of the prequels was that the whole anakin/padme relationship had to be kept a secret was because such things were frowned upon by the Jedi and that being the case, looking for parentage to explain force power seems strange. Part of the Skywalker myth was that the force was strong in their family, I thought it made them the exception, not the rule.

    That being said, if I was responsible for training my nephew, knowing he was turning, unable to stop it and then pretty much cementing that decision and then said nephew not only overpowered me, went on a rampage and killed every single other student, who was also my responsibilty, can’t say I’d want to be found much either.

    I really enjoyed the film, but I enjoyed it for the differences where I found TFA hard for the similarities.

  107. Night Owl says:

    The other thing is too Thunderchild is if it makes box office sense for them to have another Skywalker…there will be another Skywalker. They’re making this up as they go. Unless the Solo movie REALLY bombs there will be a young Luke standalone at some point. There are a lot of years unaccounted for. Then there will have been a child hidden away for their protection/to give them a normal life, whatever. If some filmmaker wants to use a character from Rogue One? Or Admiral Holdo? Standalone, earlier timeline. They’ll go with whatever idea they like/think will sell. Last Jedi settled along of things….until it hasn’t. Kind of a weird way to build a universe but hey, they’re making billions.

  108. Doug R says:

    Nick, Star Wars is about an entire galaxy with Millions of different stars and planets. Why does EVERYONE have to be a WHITE GUY? Even here in AmeriKKKa, the south was built with AA labor and the breakthrough transportation technology, the train was built with Chinese and AA labor.
    Sideshow, wondering where Observe and Report fits into the Blartverse, or is Blart in the Rogenverse?
    JS, The Verge has an article written especially for you:

  109. JS Partisan says:

    Bulldog, GOOGLE THE FUCKING ARTICLE! Good lord. It’s like you are too fucking lazy to accept, that you’re fucking lazy and can’t google. RT is a force, and even Dave wrote about it. Stop being a fucking dick for two seconds in your online fucking life, and just fucking google.

    Bill, fuck you. Also, the whole point of Paul Blart, is that he DOESN’T QUIT TRYING TO BE A COP TO MAKE HIS KID PROUD! Good fucking lord!

    G Cat, fuck you double.

    If you getting coal in your stocking motherfuckers, don’t want to be nice, then we don’t have to be nice. Enough of you anyway. Have a fucking wonderful Xmas, you fucking filthy fucking animals.

    We have yelled and insulted one another enough. Let’s just truce, and passive aggressively hate one another again? Is that alright with everybody?

  110. Sideshow Bill says:

    JS wrote

    “We have yelled and insulted one another enough. Let’s just truce, and passive aggressively hate one another again? Is that alright with everybody?:

    LOL. Agreed, buddy. I don’t hate you though. I only have hate in my heart for Trump, Ryan, et al. And that guy who replaced Ian MacCulloch in Echo & The Bunnymen for one album. Douchebag.

    And like I said, after I see the movie and if i agree with you I will come here and eat my words, sir.

  111. Hcat says:

    That has got to be the strangest Olive Branch I have ever seen.

    “Fuck you double, you filthy fucking animal how about a truce.”

    Well I am game if you are you spazzy lunatic eunuch.

    Now how about some trailers, Ocean’s 8 looks promising hopefully not as featherweight as 12 and 13. Seems like 8 was selected to leave 9 and 10 open for sequels? Bullock is one of those movie stars who can hibernate for a few years and then come out with a movie and have everyone go “oh that’s right I Love Her.”

    Gringo looks less promising, a little too manic, but have been loving Theron lately and just saw Loving over the weekend and am willing to give Edgerton the benefit of the doubt in whatever he chooses to do.

    And the reviews for Greatest Showman are all over the place while they all acknowledge the same exact flaws. Seems like your enjoyment of the movie depends on how much you love Broadway style Jackman and how much ultra sincere cheese you can digest. I’ve been thinking it could be the dark horse of the holiday corridor, but now looks like a struggle to sixty million and gone by Feb situation.

  112. Joe Leydon says:

    JS: Want to see how you and all the other “Look at the Rotten Tomatoes audience score” chumps have been played?

  113. Stella's Boy says:

    He’s actually the Founder and President of Down With Disney’s Treatment of Franchises and its Fanboys.

  114. Night Owl says:

    On the flip side Joe, this article says the alt-right “crusaders” (insert eye roll) are full of shit and it’s just been divisive among people who actually care enough to vote on Rotten Tomatoes. That’s…not the general public.

    The debate rages on I guess. Personally I’ve moved on to await the breathless “What Went Wrong” thinkpieces when Solo tops out well under $900 million worldwide. Over/under on how many articles blame the “backlash”?

  115. Hcat says:

    Well there’s a catchy title. DWDTFF just rolls off the tongue.

    But I would like to point out for all the legion of problems I have with JS he has shown absolutely no signs of ever being one of these alt-right gamergate manboys.

    The rest of the series providing impressive though smaller grosses than TFA may not indicate backlash as much as TFA just benefiting from an explosion of pent up excitement at there being a new Trilogy. Putting these out every year could lead to these leveling out around Rogue One levels now that the original series regulars are gone.

  116. Stella's Boy says:

    I don’t know his constant berating of anyone who even mildly disagrees with him and his histrionic rants and lashing out at everyone, those aren’t that far removed from the manboys. It’s just unpleasant and off-putting and no fun to encounter.

  117. Bulldog68 says:

    I guess disagreeing agreeably is an acquired talent.

    In other news, looking at the daily box office numbers, and Justice League already has suffered one indignation of being overtaken by Wonder on the charts, now its daily number comes in at just $23k above Thor. That’ll be a real punch in the gut if Thor overtakes JL in the dailies after being released two weeks earlier.

  118. Hcat says:

    And Thor is playing in fewer theaters so its average per screen is a tad higher so yes enthusiasm for Thor is still higher than for JL. Though is there really any larger indignity JL can have than being JL? They had to free up 6,000 plus screens on Wed. I have to think JL, Daddy’s Home and Just Getting Started will take the biggest hits so Thor may already have overtaken it.

    And I don’t know why someone would do this but by misspelling his name and posting with none of his usual charm, it might not be our Beloved BBQ Joe that posted the link above.

  119. JS Partisan says:

    TLJ is almost behind a 100m day to day, and that’s going to be even more coming out of this weekend. The backlash, is real. Those DWD assholes, are trolls trying to make the backlash about themselves. If they indeed fucked everything up, then RT would have fixed the audience score. The score from critics and audience, have both gone down some points the last couple of days, but one group claiming they did this is insane clickbait bullshit.

    Again, whatever you feel my point is or what not with the Last Jedi, can we all agree that it’s insane to follow up the THIRD BIGGEST FILM OF ALL TIME (adjusted for inflation) TFA, with a movie that repudiates it? Does anyone else but me, find that insane?

    My continued frustration with all of the coverage and the discussion of the Last Jedi, has everything to do with how we aren’t discussing this level of insanity. Who does this? Don’t people have to get fired for this? Is 1.5bn really what LFL wanted to make from this? They had a good year to fix this film, but no one from Disney or LFL thought to themselves, “I wonder if this is going to piss people off?”

    Seriously. LFL went full on TED 2 with their sequel, and that’s just insane. TED 2, being a movie, that basically repudiates all that happened in TED. Which is the worst kind of sequel, and that’s The Last Jedi… the worst kind of sequel.

  120. Bulldog68 says:

    “can we all agree that it’s insane to follow up the THIRD BIGGEST FILM OF ALL TIME (adjusted for inflation) TFA, ”

    Where did you get that number from?

  121. Hcat says:

    So the weekend box office for TLJ was 10 percent off of TFA but the weekday box office is 50 percent. Most schools were in session for at least the first half of this week, I don’t know if that was true for TFA. That could account for the disparity, we will have to probably look at the grosses the week after Christmas to see if they get closer to the original. But if they continue to run that far behind you may be right. Right now they are still on track for the number 3 spot domestic.

  122. Hcat says:

    Quick question for an unscientific sample, for those of you who did not like Jedi, How many times did you see TFA in theaters?

  123. Bulldog68 says:

    I don’t live the states but I think I read somewhere that less schools are off this year than when TFA opened.

    Also, Empire Strikes Back ended with $100m less than Star Wars. No one was screaming in panic. This is the third Star Wars movie in as much years, so there is no pent up demand anymore, less foaming at the mouth for the next installment. And it’s now in a world where it’s not the only blockbuster franchise in town. Marvel, DC, Potter, Disney live remakes, and other wannabe franchises. When Empire came out, the next highest grossing movie was 9 to 5. And no Netflix, nor proliferation of home cinemas, Grand Theft Auto, nor shorter cinematic window. Frankly sometimes I’m amazed that movies put up these numbers sometimes.

    Just this year, the year that superhero fatigue was put to the test, people still flocked. with the only low point being JL, and that low is $230m, or what we applauded Dr Strange for. The fact that TLJ will get to $600m and beyond still astounds me. Empire was 37 years ago. The first Star Wars was 40 years ago. Hell I’m surprised that wasn’t part of the marketing, Star Wars is 40 FUCKING YEARS OLD. That’s blowing my mind actually.

  124. leahnz says:

    remember when outdoor queues went around the block.
    if someone in ’77 had come up to me and my friend when we were kids standing in line for tickets to star wars out on the street and said, “in the next few years this movie will spawn two more movies and become a trilogy, then in 22 years when you’re all old in your early thirties with kids and stuff three more ‘prequels’ (pretty sure that term wasn’t born yet) plus a whole universe of toys and books and comics and games and shit, and then in the sci-fi year of 2015 when you’re ancient and grizzled and there’s off-world colonisation and alien visitation and such they’ll make yet another star wars trilogy – plus a couple spin-offs – with three more movies planned after that”, we would have said ‘wut’ and thought they were bonkers

    (ETA in the queue to see star wars for the second – of many – times, my friend’s brother and his ne’er-do-well mates tried to cut in line with us and a guy behind us took exception and there was what to this day is the gnarliest fist-fight I’ve ever seen, like in real-life, close up)

  125. JS Partisan says:

    BD, isn’t the current films the adjusted for inflation? Damn it. I got them in reverse. Sorry. The third biggest film of modern times.

    Also, why do you think it’s getting to 600m? If it falls off considerably this weekend, which seems like it’s going to happen. It’s looking more at 500, and that is far from disappointing domestically. International will tell the story, but Rogue One money isn’t what they want for a NOONE SAGA movie. Especially, with under a billion looming with Solo, because unless that shit is spectacular. It screams, “800m!” Screams it.

  126. Doug R says:

    To be honest, I think Solo would be lucky to do Iron Man numbers. Of course Disney marketing being what it is-but after dropping Lord/Miller, it ain’t gonna be a ground breaker.

  127. Bulldog68 says:

    You’re forgetting Christmas legs JS. Every day from Friday until New Years will be like a weekend. It got a bump from Wednesday’s numbers today, so it’s at $296m. By Sunday it’s at $400m or close to it. There is virtually no way it will not double this gross over its entire run. Yes Jumanji presents some competition, tougher than TFA faced, but it’s still the premier family event of the season, and there is no way it falls off a box office cliff. It will be carried over $600m by sheer momentum. I actually think it may split the difference between TFA and Rogue and end up north of $700m. In fact both movies had an identical 41.7% of their eventual total domestic gross after 7 days. That puts TLJ at $709m. If it falls short of that number, it won’t be by $109m. Doesn’t matter whether you or I like the movie or not. It’s just the math.

  128. JS Partisan says:

    BD, Xmas Eve is Sunday, and theatres usually close by Six. It’s not hitting 400m, til Monday, and it’s not about liking it or not. You just assume, that it’s going to hit the middle of the road between TFA and RO, and I am assuming it falls behind both.

    Let us see what happens, and if you are right. I will state as much, and you know vice versa. I’m more fascinated now, with how a SW movie handles antagonism, and how that affects the box office. That’s the story. If it overcomes it, then that’s another story. Right now? I just want to see where that goes.

  129. Stella's Boy says:

    No theater around us closes by 6 on Xmas Eve. It’s business as usual. I’ve never heard that before.

  130. MarkVH says:

    Apropos of nothing, but perusing critics’ Top Ten lists, this year is starting to feel a lot like a lot of 3-star movies are getting elevated to 4-star status based mainly on the fact that there really haven’t been many actual 4-star movies. Thinking specifically of stuff like Get Out, Wonder Woman, Baby Driver (which for me is more like 2-star). Even flat-out terrific movies like Lady Bird and Dunkirk feel more like around 3.5-star pictures than instant classics. Haven’t seen Call Me By Your Name or The Florida Project yet, so maybe there’s greatness in them, but this is the general vibe I’m getting for the year.

  131. Doug R says:

    Around here, they usually drop the last 9 and 10 pm showings on Xmas Eve and drop the first noonish matinee on Xmas day. Otherwise, wide open.

  132. JS Partisan says:

    SB, you have nothing that closes at Six in Detroit, on Xmas Eve? Also, who the hell wants to be in a movie theatre, on Xmas eve night?
    That’s different. Yes. Here in the south. They run the four o’clock shows, then call it a day.

  133. PcChongor says:

    “Phantom Thread” was the only truly four star film for me, but there’s zero chance of it picking up a Best Picture statue. Beautiful Swan Song for DDL.

  134. Stella's Boy says:

    I don’t live in Detroit. Not sure why you think I do. And where I live yes the theaters have totally regular hours on Xmas Eve, with showings starting at 9pm and 10pm as per usual. I imagine lots of people will be in a movie theater on Xmas Eve night.

  135. Dr Wally Rises says:

    All TLJ has to do is approximate Rogue One’s multiplier (and the weekday drops are roughly in sync with R1 so far) and it coasts past $700 million. Which is less of a drop from TFA than Empire was from Star Wars, or Clones was from Phantom Menace.

  136. Hcat says:

    I would assume there is decent but not heavy business on Christmas Eve, there are plenty of people that don’t do the Rockwell Christmas for various reasons, and a trip to the movies is the perfect salve for being outside what is considered the norm.

    and lest we forget,

  137. JS Partisan says:

    That’s some funny stuff, and it’s not about Rockwell shit. It’s about, being in a theatre on Xmas eve doesn’t seem like fun, and I love sitting in a damn theatre. Let us all be home, eating food, and enjoying Ralphie wanting that damn Red Rider bb gun!

    Wally, and again, that’s what I want to see. If it actually makes this shit happen.

  138. Hcat says:

    Its just that there are people that for whatever reason don’t have a shot at the Rockwell, can’t manage the travel, estrangement from family or simply the lack of one. I would think that being by yourself not doing much on Christmas Eve is sadder than going out to a film to take your mind off the relentless onslaught of cheer that you are not participating in.

  139. JS Partisan says:

    I just looked at local theatres, and the rat bastards at Regal are making people work til almost MIDNIGHT on Xmas Eve. What scumbags. The other theatres, all have last showings at 4:15, or no later than 7:45.

    And no, I’d rather be alone, playing Madden, and listening to Xmas music. Different strokes, but a theatre is a solace. Don’t want to sully it on Xmas :D!

  140. Pete B says:

    Having worked in the mental health field for a number of years, Christmas is one of the busiest times of the year for facilities. Too much stress with families, relationships, finances, etc.

    I’m sure a trip to a theater to lose yourself for a couple of hours is therapeutic.

  141. Bulldog68 says:

    I had some friends back in Trinidad that would spend their Christmas Eve in the theater. They would sneak in their spiked eggnog in flasks, slices of rum cake, and Christmas ham sandwiches. I’m talking about a crew of about 10 guys, most were single though.

  142. JS Partisan says:

    That’s cool.

The Hot Blog

Leonard Klady's Friday Estimates
Friday Screens % Chg Cume
Title Gross Thtr % Chgn Cume
Venom 33 4250 NEW 33
A Star is Born 15.7 3686 NEW 15.7
Smallfoot 3.5 4131 -46% 31.3
Night School 3.5 3019 -63% 37.9
The House Wirh a Clock in its Walls 1.8 3463 -43% 49.5
A Simple Favor 1 2408 -50% 46.6
The Nun 0.75 2264 -52% 111.5
Hell Fest 0.6 2297 -70% 7.4
Crazy Rich Asians 0.6 1466 -51% 167.6
The Predator 0.25 1643 -77% 49.3
Also Debuting
The Hate U Give 0.17 36
Shine 85,600 609
Exes Baggage 75,900 62
NOTA 71,300 138
96 61,600 62
Andhadhun 55,000 54
Afsar 45,400 33
Project Gutenberg 36,000 17
Love Yatri 22,300 41
Hello, Mrs. Money 22,200 37
Studio 54 5,300 1
Loving Pablo 4,200 15
3-Day Estimates Weekend % Chg Cume
No Good Dead 24.4 (11,230) NEW 24.4
Dolphin Tale 2 16.6 (4,540) NEW 16.6
Guardians of the Galaxy 7.9 (2,550) -23% 305.8
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 4.8 (1,630) -26% 181.1
The Drop 4.4 (5,480) NEW 4.4
Let's Be Cops 4.3 (1,570) -22% 73
If I Stay 4.0 (1,320) -28% 44.9
The November Man 2.8 (1,030) -36% 22.5
The Giver 2.5 (1,120) -26% 41.2
The Hundred-Foot Journey 2.5 (1,270) -21% 49.4