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By Ray Pride Pride@moviecitynews.com

BYOSpoilers: “Star Wars: The Last Jedi”

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94 Responses to “BYOSpoilers: “Star Wars: The Last Jedi””

  1. JS Partisan says:

    Rey and Kylo’s SPECIAL BOND, is fucked up weirdness, that should be shat all over next week. It’s forced shit, that ignores the previous film. Do most people fall in love with the guys who kill their father figures? Is that a thing? It’s just weird shit, that Star Wars needs to be held accountable for…

  2. Jerryishere says:

    Yoda looks weird.
    Doesn’t really look like either OT puppet or PT cgi.
    Felt off.
    But clearly, RJ decided to write him like Empire-era Yoda.
    Jokey
    Ymmv

    Benicio wasted

    Laura Dern = good

    Kylo goes through an arc worthy of an entire trilogy…
    In about one scene

    Snoke death felt like clearing away a half baked idea to begin with

    Akbar death = bummer

  3. JS Partisan says:

    Jerry fucking nailing it.

  4. Nick says:

    for both han and luke’s deaths to work on any fundamental emotional level required an entire trilogy of films before this setting up kylo’s turn. these films are utter shit. prequels were better because they at least had some interesting moments. this is hackneyed advertisement film making. lucas was right when he referred to disney as slave owners.

  5. JS Partisan says:

    He wasn’t right to use that term, but he is right to be disheartened with what they are doing with his property. Yes. He sold it, but it’s still his in the metaphorical sense. He should have sold it to Warners. They would have fucking made the movies, that he wanted to make. Instead, he gives it to Disney, and Bob fucking Iger decides to be Mr. Big Swinging dick, and KK hasn’t helped much either.

    This leads to this. Whatever this is. They’ve killed Han, Luke, and Carrie died before they could kill her off in Nine. It’s just… why? Why is this the road they went down?

    You make Rey Random, and that just negates how JANIA SOLO IS GETTING AN ACTION FIGURE! ANOTHER ONE! WHY? PEOPLE LOVE THE IDEA OF THE KIDS CONTINUING THE FUCKING SAGA, AND NOT SOME RANDO POINTLESS SHITHEAD! Yeah. That’s excessive, but Rey doesn’t matter. No wonder Daisy wants to bounce. There’s no episode X, none I want to see at least, where some random ass pointless character is the lead of the fucking franchise.

    You can go on and on with this shit, but the sequel trilogy just needs to come to an end. IX will probably work better for me, because JJ has to end it to continue it. He has to take all of this shit… and fucking turn it into something. Right now? I have no idea what this is, and again I accept that people may go see it in droves. It’s just not Star Wars. It’s some goofy shit wearing a stormtrooper outfit, and wearing it poorly.

  6. Hcat says:

    “and again I accept that people may go see it in droves”

    Ya, you think?

    But I do agree with the two of you that it was stupid to bring back the three and then not give them the chance to interact. What I wouldn’t have given to have them smile at each other again. And the worst thing is that these deaths are not really earned, it should have been earth shattering to lose them. Losing these guys should be gut wrenching but at least in TFA it seemed like a cheap plot point.

  7. JS Partisan says:

    Hcat, there are different levels of droves. I’m not sure this movie reaches the peaks, that Iger and Co. want. They are probably going to be shocked by the reaction, but it is what it is. The EU is still there, and my god is it so much better than this shit. Jania, Mara, and Ben Skywalker. Such a better time.

  8. Hcat says:

    Well, if I were a betting man it would place it at 210 to open landing with a final 795 domestic. And that would be worthy of champagne popping.

  9. JS Partisan says:

    I’m not even guessing. There’s no way, that this doesn’t play to a wet fart to fans like me. The Luke shit, on top of the Han shit, it’s just too god damn much. This makes me feel like it’s going to be a 1.5bn movie instead of a 2bn dollar movie.

    How can I put this. SW are like a much more successful version of the DCEU. They keep doing things, that will cost them at the box office. You can’t keep fucking with people, and not expect it to catch up to you.

  10. Dr Wally Rises says:

    Words like ‘ass’, ‘shit’, and ‘bastard’ I never expected to hear in a Star Wars movie.

    Oh, and Luke casually chucking his lightsaber over the cliff, I bloody LOVED that.

  11. Nick says:

    bantha poodoo was used previously. not shocking

  12. JS Partisan says:

    Yes. You loved one of the stupidest pieces of garbage in the whole movie. Good for you, for loving trash. He threw away the entire plot of the last film, because that’s great fucking world building.

  13. Amblinman says:

    I agree with a lot of what’s been said here, I’ll just add:

    Hey, at least it was long!

    P.S. Fuck EVERYONE involved for making a 15 hour SW movie featuring Luke Skywalker and yet zero Luke Skywalker lightsaber fights.

  14. JS Partisan says:

    Let’s keep it short and sweet: this movie fails, because it’s key premise fails. Nobodies, usually aren’t the star. Nobodies, usually aren’t the ones that every counts on. Somebodies, are the ones the ones that we count on, and this movies central premise is: we don’t need someone. WE NEED ANYONE, and that’s just not Star Wars. It’s JJ’s utilitarian version of a hero, and maybe that works right now. It just doesn’t work for Star Wars, and it completely undercuts Rey.

    It also leads us here: if Bobby Iger and Co., were so scared of a familial movie series, then have they realized that people are going to want these characters to have families and continue their stories? It’s like… they aren’t that fucking smart, and that’s just disappointing. I could give a shit about episode IX. When it comes out… woo. Other than that?

    And FUCK ALL THOSE EARLY REVIEWS. My god, are those people some contrived motherfuckers.

  15. Geoffs says:

    Did you actually see it JS?

  16. JS Partisan says:

    No, Geoff. I just magically viewed it via RJMA! Of course, I fucking saw it. It is well acted, terribly paced, and nicely directed terrible Star Wars. If this weren’t Star Wars? It would be a really great film. It’s Star Wars, so it’s fucking just there. I have no idea why the early reviews were so exciting. The film, literally, is the cinematic equivalent of a Citroen 2CV. It just prattles along, and doesn’t really care when it’s getting to it’s destination. Just… slowly… moving… along.

    The fight scenes, are also shit. They are just… they aren’t on prequel level, and that’s just unacceptable. You know what’s even more unacceptable? Luke, showing up with a dye job and a fucking outfit he is shown NOT WEARING ANYWHERE ELSE, to do his fucking FORCE PROJECTION! It was more distracting to me, than Henry Cavill’s CGI face.

    Again, Daisy Ridley is such a great actress in these, and they basically end the film stating, “HEY! WHITE BOYS! YOU CAN STILL BE THE MAIN HERO OF THE SAGA! DON’T GIVE UP HOPE!” Just head shaking. It was nice to see Yoda, even though he looked like shit. He made some great points.

  17. brack says:

    I completely disagree with the idea that Star Wars has to be about Skywalkers, or that certain characters are untouchable. While it’s not perfect, The Last Jedi is getting shit on because it’s not the movie some people wanted, and many went ahead and read the spoilers, which to me seems odd, especially if you’re a fan, but to each their own. JS already made up his mind that he hated the movie based solely on the spoilers, without seeing how they worked within the context of the movie. I’m not saying this film doesn’t have flaws, there are some, but overall this movie worked well and I’m glad I didn’t read any spoilers beforehand. Luke’s death was better than Han’s, and why exactly does it matter that Rey is a nobody? Making her a “somebody” is a Star Wars cliche at this point. I never wanted her to be Old Ben’s kid or some silliness just so she fit perfectly in the history. Kylo could also be fucking with her, but I’m hoping not. To me she is a somebody based on character development and interactions. I care about Rey, so therefore she is a “somebody.”

  18. Dr Wally Rises says:

    ‘If this weren’t Star Wars? It would be a really great film.’

    See that’s the thing – you’re condemning the movie for being WRONG as opposed to being BAD. There’s a huge difference. Look at some other major franchises and series – Back to the Future 2. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Bond has Licence to Kill. All of them are hugely polarizing and have always been argued over passionately. It looks like TLJ will be the Star Wars equivalent and I’m actually cool with that.

    Oh, and Kylo is of the Skywalker lineage – it’s still very much the Skywalker saga.

  19. Glamourboy says:

    JS,

    First you review the ‘story’ of the movie before you see it, now, of course (surprise surprise), it lives down to those expectations that you set for yourself. And now you’re reviewing the ‘story’ of the following Star Wars movies…man, the INFERENCE is strong in you.

    Maybe….and just maybe….there comes a day when you realize that the Hot Wheels cars are not for you anyone, and you give them to a kid who wants them. Maybe you accept that Star Wars has moved on and left you behind. Your love for this series is rooted in nostalgia. The stories are moving on…away from the characters you loved as a kid. Get over it and find a new toy instead of the hours you put in on these blogs trashing everything…annoying everyone, enlightening no one. And that, JS, is my INFERENCE. And that’s a thing…sugar

  20. Amblinman says:

    Disagree with rbe last few posts. Movie isn’t good as either SW or a movie. It’s likw they took the most interesting threads from TFA, flushed them, and now we’re left with the most boring part: Empire v Rebels.

    I’m fine with the movie blowing up the lore, but it doesn’t really do that. It chooses to ignore it. Rey, as it turns out, may just be a Mary Sue after all. Or the less sexist version of that phrase: poorly written. She’s a fully formed invincible Jedi. No arc to the character. I was hoping she wasn’t a Skywalker because that would be boring. But we need some kind of explaination as to why she goes from zero to Hulkbuster-armor? Leia can float through space? Astral projection? Fuck am I watching here? Marvel Studios Presents Star Wars? Going into the film I was super into Ren’s character. Couldn’t wait to see how the events of TFA changed him. What I got was the exact same guy. Even his training didn’t seem any more advanced. This story didn’t move the needle even a little for any of the characters. They’ve given up on Finn. Poe wipes out a fleet of bombers and his catharsis doesn’t come until the end of the film and it’s like “Oh right. Don’t get no one killed. Got it.”

    Random things:

    What was the plan with the speeder things racing toward the giant walkers at the end? I don’t recall any weapons on them. And there is zero payoff. The rebels go out in shitty, rusted vehicles to attack gigantic armored AT AT Walkers, realize they’re in shitty, rusted vehicles and…turn around.

    How did Rey wind up in the Falcon?

    Phasma deserved a much better end. Finn deserved a much better arc with her. Also “Chromedome”? Wha?

    Luke’s death was a waste and unnecessary. It felt like they did it just because they feel each movie should kill an Original. I’m fine with killing the Originals. Han’s death in TFA was perfect and necessary to the story. Luke’s was dopey considering it was in service to nothing. And again: fuck them for not giving us one badass Skywalker fight.

    That running time. Oof. Movie loses so much steam. The audience I saw it with seemed to have a good time but you could feel the air rushing out of the balloon once they realized the Rey/Kylo team up wasn’t the climax.

    Speaking of that, bleh. Rian Johnson doesn’t do lightsabers. Whatever.

  21. Geoff says:

    Oy I am not in a rush to see this movie but I’ll be seeing at the latest a week from today with my oldest daughter as we’re taking it out for birthday…..and considering how it’s 2.5 hours, none of these spoilers even seem to phase me as I feel like I KINDA know enough to fill out about 20 minutes of run-time.

    The critics seem to be falling all over themselves to praise this thing mainly for the “risks” it takes…..ok given the spoilers I know, there better be some WILD-ass shit coming for all of this hype.

    And JS, clearly I asked because you were reviewing it days apparently before you actually saw it. :)

  22. JS Partisan says:

    Oh my god. I didn’t make up my mind, and don’t tell me that I fucking did. I gave it a fair shot. I laughed, got misty a little bit, but at the end of the day? It’s just not good Star Wars.

    Now, let’s respond to this stupid motherfucker, that I annoy so much.

    “Maybe….and just maybe….there comes a day when you realize that the Hot Wheels cars are not for you anyone, and you give them to a kid who wants them. Maybe you accept that Star Wars has moved on and left you behind. Your love for this series is rooted in nostalgia. The stories are moving on…away from the characters you loved as a kid. Get over it and find a new toy instead of the hours you put in on these blogs trashing everything…annoying everyone, enlightening no one. And that, JS, is my INFERENCE. And that’s a thing…sugar.

    I had a friend, who died recently, that read this blog. He made a great point about some of the posters here, and that point sums you up, Boy. “That place, has a lot of stupid posters.”

    THE STAR WAR STORIES AREN’T GROWING UP! THEY ARE JUST RIFFING ON THE FUCKING OT! There are no new vehicle designs. Just riffs on everything from the OT, or weirdly modernizing them. WHICH ISN’T CREATING ANYTHING NEW! I can go on and on, but this entire series is about PLEASING OLD ASS FANS. Your fucking inability to grasp this point, is why you are fucking annoying people, and should really fuck off. I drive the boat, and always have. You? You are a random poster, who shits on me for daring not to being just like you. How privileged of you.

    Wally, those films are all great, and are not polarizing. That’s just a random ass statement, that ignores how 2015 was all about BTTF 2. It’s the Skywalker Saga, and JJ taking the Skywalker saga from Luke, and giving it to Han and Leia… is some polarizing shit.

    Man, Rey got back on the Falcon, because she stole Snoke’s emergency shuttle. That’s how that worked. You also summed up the problem with Rey well. If she is NO ONE, from NOBODY town. Well… that doesn’t explain how she’s fully fucking powered, and can stand toe to toe with a fucking Skywalker descendant.

    The only thing, that makes any sense with Rey, is she was born on Jakku. A place, where everything fucking ended between the Rebellion and the Empire. Maybe, just maybe, all of that shit put the force mojo into Rey? Outside of that? Eh?

    Let me just point out: killing Luke, made my audience audibly groan.

  23. amblinman says:

    “Man, Rey got back on the Falcon, because she stole Snoke’s emergency shuttle. That’s how that worked.”

    Did I miss exposition or are you assuming?

    While I’m replaying the movie in my head:

    I have been cackling…CACKLING at the thought that the bombers were created by the sloths in Zootopia. It seems like it takes them 15 minutes to travel approximately 2 feet. (And if just one is necessary to blow up THE MOST FEARED SHIP IN THE GALAXY, why the fuck are you sending your entire fleet? Because they’re so slow you need to send in 10 of them so just one can get through?)

    Why did Luke kiss Leia’s forehead if he was a projection? No, I’m not overthinking this. Rules is rules.

    Can someone explain the dice to me? I must not be enough of a SW super fan nerd mark to get it. (I could look it up but I’m not going to.)

    What was accomplished at the Casino World again? Other than moving Del Toro into place to betray everyone? That was it, right? This fucking movie. So fucking long to achieve so much nothing.

    OH: Yes, I laughed at the “Holding for Hux” bit. However…it’s really really dumb in context of a space opera in which the odds of people using corporate phone-speak are basically zero.

    Good use of Porgs, just right. Too bad the trailer gave away the best gag though.

  24. JS Partisan says:

    The best gag, was Chewie about to eat one. That’s the best Porg gag.

    Man, Hux tells Kylo that’s what happened. How she knew Snoke had a shuttle around, is another fucking mystery.

    The bombers and that whole scene, is just… weird. It’s really a movie, that uses NAVAL TACTICS for a chase scene. It’s just, so fucking weird, that’s what they came up with. Imagine, if everyone just went to Crait immediately. The people they would have saved!

    True. They needed to kill fucking everyone, because EVERYONE CAN BE A HERO! RAH RAH RAH! I hate being against this message, but most people aren’t LeBron, and acting like anyone can be LeBRON. Ignores, that there is only one LeBron. There’s a reason why he’s LeBron. You can have this message, but guess what? That’s not how this shit is supposed to work, but Disney has seemingly thrown that out for a message… I am sure the Chinese and Russian will just love. LOVE. LOVE. LOVE.

    How did Luke kiss Leia’s head? He’s sitting on the focal point of the force in the entire universe. No. They don’t explain this at all, but that’s the only explanation. Why? The visual dictionary explains, that place is where the first jedi ever meditated. He’s the mural in the pool of water, that Luke is sitting by in a few scenes.

    Which makes it a super fucking powerful spot for a master, and he can project himself into people’s mind. This is how he can kiss Leia, because he’s in everyone’s head.

  25. amblinman says:

    “The best gag, was Chewie about to eat one. That’s the best Porg gag.”

    That was good but nope. Tellin ya. If the trailer and commercials hadn’t spoiled it, people would have lost their shit at the reveal of the Porg roaring after Chewie roars.

    “Man, Hux tells Kylo that’s what happened.”

    Oh. I must have glazed over at that point. Don’t remember it at all.

    Remember the message from The Incredibles: “If everyone is special, then no one is.”

    I don’t buy the Luke explanation. I think it’s simply one more God mode Jedi thing Johnson and company decided to throw against the wall, like deep space travel without a suit.

    Again, one of the reasons I really didn’t like the movie. If you want to expand on what the Force can do, fine. But Deus Ex Machina-ing this shit is lame. If nothing else, SW has a pretty established mythos. You can’t callback to the other movies and then insist we forget they existed.

  26. JS Partisan says:

    Man, that’s a guess, from putting together pieces from the visual dictionary. They probably just threw it at the wall, but there has to be some reason. We will never get it, but it has to be there. Somewhere.

  27. amblinman says:

    Why does there have to be a reason? Bad writing is the probable answer. Y’know, like Rey now being one of the New Mutant Jedis that are springing up across the galaxy. (The kid force grabbing the broom annoyed the shit out of me. THAT’S NOW HOW IT WORKS, ASSHOLES.)

    I like that we start with a Force explanation that it’s not about moving rocks, and it ends with the Force totally being about moving rocks.

  28. JS Partisan says:

    Man, the more you think about it. The more it will hurt your head :D!

  29. Glamourboy says:

    JS,

    You drive the boat?

    That is another classic along with ‘inference’. You are a laff riot.

    Star Wars is not for old ass fans…and that is what you sadly don’t understand. You’re the last one in the sandbox dude. It is moving forward without you. And I understand, that is what makes you so upset. It’s the whole, ‘Get off my lawn’ thing. And its funny till its sad. But yeah, its sad. And you don’t think you annoy anyone here? You must not read the all the responses that I’ve read…dude, people have LEFT this sight because of the way you’ve dumbed it down. Yes, you and your inference have dumbed down film discourse. You are among those idiots that review films based on just reading the script or just seeing the trailer–the kind of person that feels so entitled that he thinks a movie must be written just for his needs I don’t spend hours writing out every opinion I have on this site because I actually work in the film business and make movies, rather than just writing (unpaid) on a movie blog about them.

  30. Js partisan says:

    Did someone post something? Someone who matters? I don’t see anything worth a damn since Man. Did only six of us see this damn movie? 56 percent with audiences. Guess it’s official.

  31. Guys — not defending or attacking the movie (which I think had pluses and minuses), but regarding Luke kissing Leia on the forehead, that’s amply set up earlier when Rey and Kylo are able to see each other and, yes, even touch each other across vast reaches of interstellar space thanks to the Force. They are both Force-sensitive, and Snoke is amplifying things, which is why it works for them — but Luke is the Jedi master to end all Jedi masters, and he’s force projecting from the holiest Jedi spot in the universe, so he’s able to make himself seen not just by one person but by hundreds; and he’s able to achieve physical contact with his (force-sensitive) sister. I think it makes sense (insofar as any of this makes sense).

  32. leahnz says:

    i need to see it again to no doubt catch little details that might plug up some plot holes here and there (or not); there’s a lot i like about it but it is very long, i wish RJ had tightened things up a bit, a leaner meaner version would be more effective — but it does shift into gear at the end when Rey’s uncertainty/existential crisis culminates and she once again embraces her unique, take-action self so at least it ends on pace.

    thematically i thought there was more to the casino sequence than simply setting up finn and rose’s betrayal, as social/political commentary depicting a shiny upper class of frivolous aristocracy (the 1%?) that has seemingly blossomed under the brutality of the New Order, an aristocracy built and dependent upon exploitation and child slave labour (from which Rose comes).
    this – combined with the fact that the resistance is pretty much wiped out – could provide rich fodder for what i assume will be rebuilding the rebellion from the ground up with the exploited and disenfranchised people in EP IX.
    and since Rey is the Last Jedi (and the Jedi were never just skywalkers so i don’t see how that’s an issue) i’d think it’s possible that those little enslaved force-sensitive tots will be the padewans of a new era of jedi.

  33. I will also say that I’m as Old Skool a fan as they come — saw the original at the Ziegfeld in NYC in 1977, bought all the trading cards and chewed all the gum. But I don’t mind Rey taking center stage. First of all, it’s time for a new generation; Carrie’s already gone, sadly, and Ford and Hamill won’t be with us forever. Second, the fact that she’a a “nobody” hardly makes her different from farmboy Luke from backwater Tatooine. Yes, he turned out be Vader’s progeny and the princess’ brother, and that was fun, but it’s not like it was necessary in order for us to like the story. We liked Star Wars just fine in ’77 when we didn’t know any of that yet. He was just a nobody from nowhere, who’d never known his parents and grew up in a worthless backwater, pining for adventure. And if he’d always stayed that, Star Wars would still have been great. Who’s Dorothy in The WIzard of Oz? A nobody from Kansas who winds up in Oz and turns into a hero. Not because she was born to be a hero and special in some preordained way, just because she rises to the occasion when she has to. Who’s Marty McFly? For that matter, who’s John McClane? Just a random ex-cop in a tough situation who does the best he can and it turns out to be pretty damn good. Now, you could say, “Fine, make Rey an ordinary person who rises to the occasion, but in that case don’t have her randomly turn out to have world-beating powers” (excuse me, Force-sensitivity…the Force, as we’re told, is not a “power”). Sure, ok — but what about Buffy? Ordinary high-school student who turns out to be a “Slayer.” And we love it. She didn’t ask for these powers, she didn’t do anything to deserve them — but she’s got ’em and she’s stuck with them, and the fun is watching her deal with them and with the responsibility and pleasures and pains of being saddled with them. That’s a fine story to tell — there’s nothing wrong with it, if you tell it well. At least in my eyes. (If you’re wondering what isn’t fine in my eyes, it’s the long casino sequence that never quite gels — how can two of our leads just make this huge detour in the middle of a chase? — and smartass jokes like “I’m holding fro Hux” and “A page-turner it is not” which uses vernacular language and concepts that would fit in a modern-world set fantasy like Buffy but don’t at all in the high-fantasy world of Star Wars. The original had jokes too, but they were “nerf herder” and “laugh it up, fuzzball,” not “This place looks like Studio 54!” or some other of-the-70s jargon.)

  34. leahnz says:

    Rey being a ‘nobody’ seems a deliberate poke in the eye to the ‘chosen one’ trope (also, with one EP to go do we really know who she is yet?)

  35. Rey being a nobody was Rian trying not to cave to any of the fan theories: she’s Luke’s daughter, she’s Obi-Wan’s daughter, etc. Any one of those would’ve been the cause for much eye-rolling and gnashing of teeth. As, now, this is. There really was no winning on this point. The original movie dodged this by not making us think the question of who Luke’s parents were was even a question. His father was killed by Vader, a student of Ben Kenobi; now Luke is a student of Ben Kenobi and he’s going to go up against Vader and avenge his father. That’s all we thought was going on. We didn’t expect a reveal of any sort; it wasn’t set up as a puzzle. As soon as Rey’s parentage was set up as a Big Mystery — especially in a Star Wars movie, for god’s sake, which is the ne plus ultra of family reveals — the filmmaker’s boxed themselves in. It was a no-win scenario, and Rian’s “her parents were nobody” is his Hail Mary attempt at reprogramming the Kobayashi Maru.

  36. All right, one last gripe for the night, as long as I’m yammering on and JSP hasn’t shut me down yet: how many times was the word “hope” used in this script?? It was a beautiful payoff as the last word of Rogue One, finally giving substance to the Episode IV subtitle we all puzzled over when Lucas announced it. But here…hope hope hope hope hope hope hope. We get it. Hope. Enough.

  37. Js partisan says:

    56 percent audience rating. This movie’s goose is cooked.

  38. Night Owl says:

    That was….kind of weird? Between this and Force Awakens I’m realizing they decided to do a sequel story I’m not all that into. I think that’s why Rogue One landed the best for me (yes we exist JS, relax) I hadn’t been making up the story of the mission to steal the plans since I was seven…but a sequel story? Between my own imagination and the Zahn books I had that story as a kid. the new story is…OK I guess? I will say terrific visuals and quite funny movie with some major tone and pacing issues. Weird.

    Loved Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher and Laura Dern. Beautiful work.

    So you hire Benicio del Toro for that nothing character? Weird.
    So after all that set up and change of direction you’re only doing one more movie with this story and group and then moving onto a completely different trilogy? Weird.

  39. JS Partisan says:

    Night, I know people love RO, but that story was told better in countless games and comics. It now has some company on my list with TLJ, but the rest of your points I agree with in totality.

    What really bums me out, is that Luke had such a shit fucking life. When you have EU Luke who had a wife, a son, and academy, and he also had an EVIL FUCKING NEPHEW! Did he just cower away from the world? No. He fought. He didn’t quit. Why they just couldn’t give us a small glimmer of EU LUKE is just… so disappointing.

    Look at that audience score. More people on that site, liked Attack of the Clones. They liked it more by one point, but it’s still that low. A modern, supposedly infallible, Star Wars movie, that just pisses audiences off, and doesn’t pay off TFA. I am sure the whole Rey mess and killing Luke didn’t help the score either.

    Now. Here’s someone who didn’t leave the “sight.” Shocking. Nevertheless, you make solid points Charles, but the thing with Rey is simple: Star Wars is a familial story. It’s about family, and having this overpowered girl from nowhere destroys the family aspect of the story. I get why they did it, but it just doesn’t work for the SKYWALKER SAGA.

    Like I stated this before, but does Disney grasp, if they do make an episode X one day, that people will want ReyNo to have kids with someone? It’s still Star Wars, and people want the main people to have kids. The idiots at EA figured this out, but the mighty fucking SW BRAINTRUST couldn’t grasp it?

    This whole trilogy is a poor consolation prize, and the deal it’s made with fans, is getting worse every damn day.

  40. leahnz says:

    did i miss in the movie where it said Rey is sterile or something?
    (also Po kinda joey tribiani’s her at the end, comes up to her like how you doing, and Rey’s all ‘hi i’m rey’ with too many teeth so MAYBE THEY’LL HAVE KIDS)

    i thought mark hamill was excellent

    (does anyone else think that when R2 shames Luke for not going with Rey by playing leia’s old ‘help me obi-wan Kenobi’ hologram and luke says something like ‘i’m not leaving here’ that leia’s hologram itself gives him the idea of astral projecting what amounts to a hologram of himself to the stronghold? i kind of wondered if he was real in that hale of heavy artillery, a nice bit of writing anyway)

  41. JS Partisan says:

    Leah, they seemingly ripped the family heart out of the film, but do they realize their protagonist is a female? If they do episode X. Like we need that shit, but let’s state they do episode X. Would they have the gumption, to give us family and shit, or would they ignore it again? The family thing, is important like the characters being related to someone is important.

    This is why ReyNo is so confusing. If anyone can be the ONE, the supreme bad ass, then why do we need Rey? There’s only one Marty. There’s only one Buffy. There’s only one Ripley… technically. If that little kid with the broom can be the hero, then why do we need Rey? That’s just a ginormous fucking plothole, that they seemingly put there to just… shrug.

  42. palmtree says:

    While I get the hate (I had a lot of issues with it too), in the larger scheme of things, TLJ is still a pretty good movie. It’s definitely better than the prequels, even though so many people are now retroactively claiming the prequels are decent now. I have a feeling that that 56% rating will mellow as more people watch it this weekend.

  43. leahnz says:

    JS i feel you re the heart of family being gone now (and it’s only getting worse, since CF is dearly departed so it’ll be a thing to see how they deal with that final bit of fuckery to the holy trinity luke/leia/han) but jeeze there’s EP IX still to come, it’s not like han and leia were popping out the sprogs in EP V or even VI, give it some air having kids is a big decision

    (ETA what is this 56% rating of which people speak, where’s it at)

    also edited X to IX above, typo, these freakin roman numerals

  44. If you read the audience reviews that go into the 56% rating (they’re on Rotten Tomatoes, Leah), you’ll see very few of them are measured “Meh, it was okay but had weaknesses, and overall I didn’t like it” comments and most are furious “U RAPED MY CHILDHOOD” tantrums like JSP’s. Which is not to say that the movie is good, or that it’s bad, but I don’t think these early angry reactions from people who lined up for midnight screenings are representative of the audience at large. It reminds me of the people who got SO pissed off at Shane Black for daring to do what he did with the Mandarin in IRON MAN 3. A certain type of comic book nerd was apoplectic, while the broader audience didn’t care. I’m a comic book nerd, but for whatever reason, I didn’t care. I thought it was Shane being Shane, and very funny, and I went with it. Similarly, I’m able to go with it here. I feel a little sad about some things in this movie, and part of that sadness is seeing this thing of my childhood slowly come to an end and not in a certain rousing way I might have liked…but comparing it to the prequels, which were objectively shitty films, and pretending it’s worse? I’ll go to my grave resisting that sort of revisionism. This movie has flaws, and I’m not ignoring them, but the prequels were…dreck. I’m sorry. You’re angry to not get the EU Luke you’ve dreamed about for years, but making Luke a hermit in a cave doesn’t make this a bad movie. It’s a choice you don’t like, but it’s not inherently bad filmmaking or bad storytelling.

    By the way, your anger about not getting more of the characters you love (the “special” ones) and instead seeing the story move on to new characters who are described as just as special reminds me of how I felt, as a kid, reading Piers Anthony’s Xanth novels and getting mad when they stopped following the character I’d loved from the start (Bink, I think his name was) and instead being about other people. Where was Bink?? Wasn’t the whole point of the books that Bink was especially, uniquely special? Who were these other people getting the spotlight and why was I supposed to care about them? Well, 20 books later, or whatever it is, other people have other favorite characters. It’s ok. People other than Dorothy can go to Oz. (Baum did that in the books, remember.) Not every Earthsea book has to be about Ged. Not every Star Trek story has to be about Kirk and Spock — you can invent Picard, put in a cameo by DeForest Kelley in your pilot episode, and off you go. I like Rey. She’s earnest and troubled and well-acted and has pretty eyelids (so it’s even fun watching her act with her eyes shut tight). She swore she wouldn’t let Luke Skywalker down, and you know what? I believe her. I don’t care where she came from — she’s a hero now, and when she lifted those rocks, my heart swelled. And the kid with the broom? So what? At the end of Buffy, a million other slayers were empowered. Not my favorite move plot-wise, but it’s not like this is without precedent. And in the infinite number of worlds in the SW universe, wouldn’t you expect some kid somewhere to be Force-sensitive? The point wasn’t that it’s suddenly super-common, it’s that the spark hasn’t gone out entirely. There will be another generation even after Rey. “…and I’ll NOT be the last Jedi.” (And didn’t you get at least a little shiver from that lovely quasi-Biblical syntax?) You can beat us, starve us, enslave us, deny us education, but on some planet somewhere, another Luke, another Rey, will eventually rise. It’s not bad storytelling. The old master passes, whether that’s Yoda, Obi-Wan, or Luke (or Snoke), and a new young apprentice, however imperfect, rises. We’re all on our way out, JSP — even you. From the day we’re born, we’re dying. There has to be replacement, or the human adventure ends. Movies are an attempt to freeze a moment, to render permanent something inherently fleeting. And god bless them when they succeed. Those are the ones we put into vaults and love 40 years later. Very, very, very few achieve that greatness. But we keep trying. Don’t get so angry. Failure, the best teacher is. And anger leads to the dark side. Peace, my movie-loving friend.

  45. GdB says:

    For those saying Star Wars has outgrown us adult fans and is for a new generation of 5yr olds. Please kindly drink a nice warm glass of shut the fuck up.

    It is exactly my generation that kept the franchise brand alive during the late 80’s and 90’s, dumping $$ into toys and collectiblds when there was no new content for almost a decade is exactly why the brand is valued that it is. Kids today are not the reason that SW is the juggernaut it is. Generation X is. It’s because of us those new kids are into it.

    So knowing its we super fans who carried it with our hard earned dollar during the drought that got it where it is today, then it should be clear we have every right to voice dis-satisfaction over how characters that earned our devotion, and $$$, to support said franchise are treated and handled by new owners.

    What Glamourboy is positing is like saying every time a new Stones album comes out it’s only for 13-15yr olds and not the boomers who grew up with them.

    It’s asinine logic meant to emotionally manipulate an argument really over personal grudges.

    Not buying it. Not valid.

  46. brack says:

    Well said (well, written) Charles. I’m a middle-of-the-road Star Wars fan, and yeah, it’s a little sad to lose beloved characters, but it’s no different than seeing the greatest athletes disappear and greater athletes appearing out of nowhere.

    I’m not even the biggest sports fan, far from it, but my favorite athlete of all time is Roger Federer. Now, will I be mad when someone else wins 20+ grand slams and beats his record? Not at all, because I’ll cherish my memories like I do my movies.

    I’m happy to move away from the Skywalker saga, as it got very stale with the prequel trilogy, but that was more of Lucas’ poor writing that was to blame. Just as long as there’s strong characters and adventure, I don’t care if their last names are Skywalker or not. It’s called Star Wars, not Skywalker Wars.

  47. JS Partisan says:

    Brack, if that’s what you want, then good fucking lord. And Roger Federer CAME FUCKING BACK THIS YEAR! What the fuck are you even on about? Also, that’s a false fucking equivalency, because sports have different narratives then movies, because sports aren’t written. Disney, decided to take things in this direction, and it’s just a poor direction.

    You are also one of those great fucking people, that go on about the prequels being stale. Sorry, but Lucas put more story and mythos and heart in those films, then Rian Johnson has put into every film he has ever fucking made. The Last Jedi, is a shit cake in a really nice festive tin. If you want to eat the dry fucking cake, then you go right the fuck ahead. A lot of us, do not want the dry cake, and would like something a bit more savory. It’s really nice of you though, to state you really don’t care, but you are cool with the dry cake. Guess what? This isn’t about randos like you. It’s about fans like me, and a lot of fans are angry, but again you aren’t really a Star Wars fan, so yay.

    Charles, I’ve never used raped my childhood, because I love the prequels. I love the original trilogy, and TFA. This, is a garbage film, and responding to it’s garbage is not a tantrum. It’s being a human being that has blood in one’s veins and arteries, and not some automaton putting out pablum that doesn’t make sense, or fucking matter to anyone.

    Again, follow this simple statement: if anyone can be the hero, then what’s the point of Rey? Why should anyone care about Rey? It doesn’t matter what spin you, or anyone else wants to put on it. Making her a nobody, from nowhereville, and ending the movie on a little boy holding a broom he grabbed with force powers… is a fucked up message to send about the new protagonist. If you want to disagree, then go right ahead.

    AND FUCK THIS BULLSHIT POINT ABOUT THE RT SCORE! Sorry, but I’ve read a lot of those comments, and they aren’t all sexist claptrap. People are angry, and they have a right to be angry. Luke was treated like dog shit, Rey is super jedi strong for some reason, and the STORY WAS MASTER AND COMMANDER IN FUCKING SPACE!

    One more thing: TFA was a great kids movie. TLJ really isn’t, and that’s weird.

  48. Dr Wally Rises says:

    “Making her a nobody, from nowhereville, and ending the movie on a little boy holding a broom he grabbed with force powers… is a fucked up message to send about the new protagonist. If you want to disagree, then go right ahead.”

    Okay, I’ll do just that. The Star Wars Ring Theory nuts will doubtless have noticed that the broom kid and his buddies were living in the exact same circumstances as Anakin in Episode 1. We end with the kid looking up to the skies in wonder, just like Anakin Skywalker did when Qui Gon took that DNA swab from him Episode 1. It’s thematically appropriate and consistent with the saga as a whole, just as ring theorists will have noticed that Johnson smartly inverts some of the events of the OT throughout (Yoda told Luke to stay, Luke tells Rey to go. Vader killed the Big Bad out of love and self sacrifice, Kylo kills the Big Bad for personal gain.).

    This movie needs time I think. And who wants to talk about that shooting star? I’m already hearing chatter that the star is actually the Yuuzhon Vong arriving from another galaxy. There’s your new trilogy for the 2020’s guys.

  49. Hcat says:

    I for one have been waiting impatiently for a Master and Commander in space. But agree they shouldnt have done it in the SW franchise which has always been Twelve o Clock High up till now.

  50. Js partisan says:

    Hcat… Impressive. Most impressive.

    Dr. Wally, interesting, but still not answering the overall question. If the protagonist can be easily replaced, then what’s the point of said protagonist?

  51. Dr Wally Rises says:

    I’m not sure JS…. just because she’s an orphan on a junk planet doesn’t mean she can be easily replaced,maybe she saves the galaxy just out of sheer charisma (and the fact that Daisy is so damned likeable doesn’t hurt either – she actually reminds me of 90’s Sandra Bullock a bit. It’s interesting to remember that we were this close to having Fassbender as Kylo and Saoirse Ronan as Rey. Great actors , but I can’t imagine anyone else in those roles now. You can say this for Abrams – his casting instincts are almost always on the money).

    Oh,and $105 million on Friday and an ‘A’ Cinemascore (TFA was an A minus). The sky is still there, act accordingly.

  52. Night Owl says:

    So what do they do with Episode 9? Realistically you need a pretty major time jump. Building the rebellion from scratch in Act 1 to bringing down the bad guys in Act 3 for a “final” trilogy movie is too much for 2.5 hours. Hell even after the Original Trilogy, Rogue One, and that Rebels animated series the story of the first rebellion still has more they could do. Luke will be back as a Force Ghost obviously (“see you around kid”), particularly as they set up the mother-son connection for Episode 9 but that is now just not possible without a recast. So Ghost Uncle Luke steps up at some point? That’s…weird.

    Abrams is a fantastic mimic of other people’s work with an eye for characters but not a great original storyteller in the slightest. That’s concerning. I’m not a big fan of his “mystery box” obsession but it was jarring to see all that set up thrown out. And now that he’s concluding everything? I have a, well, not “bad” feeling about this, but I’m uneasy.

  53. JS Partisan says:

    Dr. Wally, and an A is not an A+, and let me introduce you to my friend, “AGE of ULTRON.” The sky only has so much blue sky to it.

    Night Owl, they aren’t going to do anything worth a damn. The easiest answer to all of this is… LANDO. They aren’t going to use Lando, because god forbid they gave a fuck about Star Wars fans.

    This will lead to some bullshit, other bullshit will happen, and that’s the end of the saga. Whoopidy doo. I’ll tell you this much: I’ve now checked out with this saga. I’m looking forward to Solo, but IX is just… Elmo Shrug.

  54. brack says:

    “Brack, if that’s what you want, then good fucking lord. And Roger Federer CAME FUCKING BACK THIS YEAR! What the fuck are you even on about? Also, that’s a false fucking equivalency, because sports have different narratives then movies, because sports aren’t written. Disney, decided to take things in this direction, and it’s just a poor direction.”

    Federer came back from virtually oblivion. Almost nobody could have predicted he’d make this much of a comeback. Almost 5 years with no grand slams, and at 35, practically ancient (I’m the same age, both of us 36 now) in tennis years, and 6 months off and no one knowing if his knee would hold. The force is strong with him, not even he believed he would win his first event back. And I use his example because his comeback would make a great piece in his biopic if there ever was one. The Australian Open final this year had as many twists and turns as any movie, with his dominance over his biggest rival icing. Not making an argument for false equivalency, but it feels like a dream for a Fed fan. He’s Luke back from the end of the galaxy more or less. And I love it.

    “You are also one of those great fucking people, that go on about the prequels being stale. Sorry, but Lucas put more story and mythos and heart in those films, then Rian Johnson has put into every film he has ever fucking made. The Last Jedi, is a shit cake in a really nice festive tin. If you want to eat the dry fucking cake, then you go right the fuck ahead. A lot of us, do not want the dry cake, and would like something a bit more savory. It’s really nice of you though, to state you really don’t care, but you are cool with the dry cake. Guess what? This isn’t about randos like you. It’s about fans like me, and a lot of fans are angry, but again you aren’t really a Star Wars fan, so yay.“

    Story and mythos do not necessarily make for a good movie if it’s poorly executed. Revenge of the Sith was a bounce back after Clones, but not enough. The PT ultimately added nothing to the Star Wars saga except embarrassment. The actors deserved better dialogue. I could go on but I don’t have the time.

    I’m a fan dude. Seen the OT countless times, could probably perform a one-man show verbatim. You’re not the authority on fandom, even if you think you are.

  55. GdB says:

    I wish I could get on the Solo train. But that one feels like a cash grab most of all. And if I understand it right, they’re going to run the narrative right up with its nose pressed to ANH, instead of going with a few years in between to have him “age” into the look of Harrison Ford.

    As much as a Childish Gambino fan that I am, I’ll be sitting this one out on principle.

  56. leahnz says:

    “If you read the audience reviews that go into the 56% rating (they’re on Rotten Tomatoes, Leah)”

    thx i should have known. the obsession with rotten tomatoes as some bellwether of anything is inexplicable

  57. Night Owl says:

    “I wish I could get on the Solo train.”

    Yeah this is me too. The thought of this movie does nothing but annoy me. I’m also mystified it is coming out in May…or so far I guess. But I can’t see Disney moving it with the title card poster and date already in theatres. I don’t think they want to show any more signs of weakness in this one. It’s bizarre though. If we go by the Rogue One timing (with this being another spin off) we would have already had a teaser trailer and a real poster by now. I get that Last Jedi complicates things but it’s not like Solo is the only big May release this year. Plus Last Jedi doesn’t lead into it at all.

    Solo will have no Star Wars Celebration cast panel, no Comic Con promotion, and again if the usual schedule holds it will be starting its promotional tour just before Infinity War premieres domestically and in the midst of its worldwide release. Then Deadpool 2 premieres a week after the release, Incredibles 2 shortly after that. What are they doing? Yes I know it’s not going to bomb of course not but with the huge numbers their first spin off Rogue One did are they really going to be happy with say, $300 and something million domestic and maybe $800 million worldwide (maybe)? Is that enough?

  58. Ray Pride says:

    RT attracts readers a critic might otherwise not be exposed to, for worse and for better. That’s the most attractive aspect for me.

  59. JS Partisan says:

    Night Owl, they will probably drop a trailer in February, when Black Panther opens. Yes. It’s insane they are cutting shit that close, but that’s what they are going to do. They, apparently, think they can’t advertise a forthcoming SW movie, with a new SW movie in theatres. Who knows what the fuck they are doing over there? I have no clue.

    Oh yeah. We live in a world, where the derided Battlefront 2, can understand the importance of family in Star Wars. While the saga films, are completely lost about it. That’s how stupid Star Wars is, in 2017.

  60. GdB says:

    Disney and Lucasfilm need to marathon some Naruto/Boruto anime or even some DBZ to recognize you don’t have to always kill off your main cast from the first run to make room for the next generation. It is possible to move them into secondary roles, keep them badass and have them have growth. Both DBZ and Naruto have successfully pulled it off going on 15yrs. For me, killing them off to make room for new heroes is the most tired and cliche way to pass the torch.

    It really feels like for whatever reason Disney wants to get rid of anything related to Lucas and just keep the brand in name only thinking that the brand “Star Wars” matters and it has nothing to do with the actual characters created and written by Kasdan, Hyuck & Katz and Lucas. Or the performance, presence and chemistry the original trio gave and all that 40yr history is simply interchangeable.

    Ridiculous.

  61. Geoff says:

    Ok I saw it yesterday afternoon though not under the most ideal circumstances….and it’s pretty good but not great. WAY too soon to give it any kind of overall assessment as is the case for any Star Wars movie at this point – these films more than any others just have SO much hype upon release, it can pull you in or put you off – but just not an ideal circumstance to evaluated the overall quality of a movie. Especially since EVERY film since and including ‘Clones 15 years ago now (wow has it been that long?) has had the same exact initial reaction when it be on social media or blogs or early reviews: “Best since Empire!”

    I can at least comfortably say that I have not felt a Star Wars film drag THIS much since ‘Clones – wow there was probably 110 minutes of a very strong movie in there but SO much bloat! I’ll see it again next week with my oldest daughter on her birthday, maybe it won’t feel as overlong.

    But thee’s a ton of good stuff in there for sure – I don’t know, JJ and Kasdan REALLY wrote them into a corner in The Force Awakens so I’m not sure how many things Johnson could have done within the core story at least to take it to something more satisfying….the Mystery Box/Mary Sue bullshit with Rey was NEVER going to have a satisfying resolution no matter who her parents were sorry. And I actually liked Ridley much better in this film and the Rey character – they have pretty much doubled down on her being a Mary Sue but it’s a story choice at this point and you just run with it.

    And I just can’t give in to the hyperbole from either direction being thrown towards this movie from the likes of John Campea and the Collider/Schmoes crew – I love a lot of those guys and you can shit on the Schmoes all of you want for how they just become weak-kneed for all things Star Wars…..but folks like Mark Ellis are still out there year-in, year-out championing films like Moonlight and Call Me By Your Name to their frat-boy fanbases. They’re falling over themselves to praise this film for the all of the “risks” it takes and sorry no….not when we have more screentime devoted to Porgs than the main villain, nothing risky about that on paper nor under the surface.

    And JS and the rest of the butt-hurt fanboys out there who are screaming about how this film “ruins” Luke….come on now. :) Story considerations aside, let’s be realistic about this: ‘Jedi was 34 years ago and Mark Hamill is NOT Harrison Ford….dude is not a freakish physical specimen who can still fly planes in his late ’70’s. Hamill has pretty much become a voice actor over the past 25 years which is super-cool but if you’re going to give him a more active role and insert him into more of the action, a lot of it’s just going end up looking silly like Christopher Lee did in ‘Clones or ‘Fellowship – I thought they used him nicely, would I have liked some more screentime devoted to him training Rey? Sure but no….we need to devote that time to more quippy jokes and Easter Eggs and set up MORE new characters like it’s a fucking Marvel movie!

    And JS, not sure why this is directed at you but we had this exchange a few weeks ago – maybe The Last Jedi will age like a fine wine and I’ll come around to thinking that every scene on the casino planet or having Poe act like hot-head was necessary to the overall story but….this movie proves my point again when it comes to franchise movies like this from Marvel, DC, Star Trek, or Star Wars: three words……KEEP IT SIMPLE!!! :)

    Nothing to do with rose-colored glasses regarding the Original Trilogy – those flaws are never going away whether they be Hamill’s excessive whining in A New Hope nor how they turned Solo into a buffoon in ‘Jedi – but those first three films kept it simple. Very few perfunctory characters, no unnecessary sub-plots, MOSTLY humor that was just organic to the story, and a very simple, focused STORY.

    And this isn’t about “Oh well this is the 21st Century and movies have changed….” No fuck that…look at some of the best, memorable films of the past ten years: what was Whiplash except a boy, his drums, and the twisted Mr. Miyagi-like mentor he goes back and forth with?? What was Nightcrawler except one evil prick’s meteoric rise to the top of nightly news snuff film reporting?

    You’re always going to have your Altman’s and Oliver Stones and Soderberghs and PT Andersons who are going to throw more shit in there and see what sticks….but they’re the MASTERS. We don’t need that shit in space operas or comic book movies plain and SIMPLE: Rian Johnson, Zack Snyder, James Gunn, David Ayer, JJ, the Russos (I hesitate to include them because they’re still just basically sitcom directors) and the whole rest of this bunch who every studio is now throwing $200 million at every year to re-boot or re-imagine or whatever the fuck they’re trying to do….most of them are just PRETENDERS, give us a strong, tight entertaining movie…tip for all of these guys: STOP pretending that you’re going to be the next Hitchcock because it’s just NOT gonna happen when you have a Kathleen Kennedy or Kevin Feige breathing down your neck to ensure that “this week’s episode” keeps the fans happy and sets up the next one….you’re just going to exhaust your audience at the end of the day.

    Better to aspire to be more like Walter Hill or John McTiernan, keep it simple. 😉

    That said, I need to see the movie again and give it some time….

  62. JS Partisan says:

    GdB, the only obvious analogy for Disney and Lucas, is Obama and the orange julius. Everything Obama did. The orange julius has to destroy. Everything Lucas wanted from the saga, a family story that spanned the generations, is ignored. It’s thrown out. What does Disney give us? Nobody, from Nowhere’sville. It’s just disheartening.

    What’s even more insane, is that they could have JUST FUCKING RIPPED OFF THE LEGEND OF KORRA! If they did that… we could still have Rey and everyone else, but it would respect the past. How they don’t get what Star Wars about, is why Bob Iger is never going to be the storyteller George Lucas continues to be.
    .
    A butt-hurt fanboy, Geoff? Fuck you, you whiny Warner Brothers schill bitch ass :P. I fuck with you, Geoff. I fuck with you, but fuck keeping it simple. There is nothing simple about destroying TFA. Why did this movie have such a great weekend? TFA! What did they do in response of that movie? NOT FOLLOW IT UP! That’s not keeping it simple. It’s being fucking ridiculous.

    And no one but you wants shit simple. Give me fucking Robocop, give me fucking DIE HARD WITH A FUCKING VENGEANCE, and give me Twin Falls fucking Idaho. This point, from you, is ass backwards.

  63. Monco says:

    This is absurd that people are justifying Rey being a nobody by saying Luke was a nobody in the origianl movie. The whole excuse for her powers in TFA was that she was a somebody just wait and see. Otherwise her ability to beat a Jedi when she had no training makes no sense. Luke succeeded in Star Wars because Han saved him. He had skills as a pilot but succeed a lot on luck. He never used his lightsaber in Star Wars. He failed in Empire and was only spared because Vader did not want to kill his son. There is no justification her being this powerful with no training. Luke goes out of his way to not train her in this movie.

    What is the conflict in Episode IX? We already saw this fight two years ago and she beat Kylo easily. Now this guy is in charge of everything?

    Luke has the power to Force teleport but can’t prevent a roof from collasping on his head? Why did Yoda wait years to counsel Luke while the galaxy burned? Why didn’t Anakin come and talk to him? So force ghosts can change weather and generate lighting? Why didn’t Yoda/Anakin/Obiwan intervene in battles?

    No point in going all that is wrong with the movie. Posters will just say get a life and its for 5 year olds. True. But this movie is bad both objectively as a film and especially as a Star Wars film.

  64. Js partisan says:

    Monco. Right on. I’d love to know what fucking movie these folks watched, because… Elmo shrug.

  65. GdB says:

    Monco, yes on the Yoda plot hole. You’re the first person who I’ve read that that bothered besides me. If I was giving notes on the script that would’ve been the first thing I said about that scene.

    I don’t get why and how RJ concludes that the story as he was writing it meant Luke had to die no matter how much he didn’t want to kill him off.

    Someone please explain how the narrative drives the direction that he has to die rather than survive the projection like a Master who got his mojo back and lived to kick ass in the next movie.

    Because as far as I can tell the math on that doesn’t add up from a story construction purpose. Where’s the rule that says a Force projection is a suicidal super move?? It’s a space “fantasy” for chrissakes. Not hard sci-fi.

  66. Geoff says:

    LOL JS, I’ll take your personal insults with a grain of salt obviously. :)

    And you KNOW I’m right – you’re even saying they should have followed the easier route of continuing Rey’s hero’s journey with this installment which would have been…..KEEPING IT SIMPLE. 😉

    And in what world is Robocop NOT a simple story nor Die Hard for that matter?

  67. Geoff says:

    And for any of you guys commiserating about Luke’s death, do any of you REALLY believe that JJ just won’t ret-con him back to life in Episode IX via force powers? This is JJ we’re talking about – if you want to resurrect a character, trope, story beat, hell an ENTIRE story from the dead….HE’S your guy.

  68. GdB says:

    Anyone else disappointed that we didn’t get more of a reaction from Luke about Han’s death or some kind of recognition of loss?

    Also disappointed there wasn’t more of a reunion between Luke and Chewie, or Luke and threepio (and R2 though they did have one scene together at least)

  69. JS Partisan says:

    Geoff, I fuck with you, and it’s about the choice Rian made to kill the character off. It’s just so ridiculous. Also, remember, that Rian Johnson feels, that this kills off Luke for good. I figured out though, that Rian Johnson is terrible with exposition, follow through, or anything else that I want from a director. JJ? He will at least give me an entertaining and fun movie. Of course, I don’t fucking care anymore, but it’s the thought that counts.

    Now, if you think Robocop is a simple movie, then much like your need to keep it simple. I will just disagree with you.

    GbD, we just have to accept, that they let a guy who really doesn’t understand Star Wars, make a really terrible movie. If he wasn’t just awful. He would get the importance of these characters, and their interaction. Instead, he just, you know, wanted to kill off as much as the resistance as possible, because Rian Johnson is a ridiculous 90s kid TO THE EXTREME!

  70. Amblinman says:

    A few of you are highlighting one of my biggest problems with the movie: throwing out Jedi myth in favor of creating a new version of X-Men. It’s one of the worst choices Johnson makes in a movie filled with bad choices.

  71. GdB says:

    It seems to be the more casual a Star Wars fan you are, the more likely to like TLJ. But the hardcore fans who drive the ancillary markets really hate this film and the preceived dump taken on Luke Skywalker.

    We were set up to believe in TFA by Han that Luke had gone searching for the first Jedi temple. Insinuating he went looking for a power or answer to save his nephew the same way he tried to save his father.. Instead we got a Luke who ran away like a little bitch after considering murdering his nephew.

    That. Is. Not. In. Character.

    No matter how much time has passed and changed that behavior change is not the character fans have known for 40yrs so they’re not having RJ pull the rug out and seemingly pull the same kind of deconstruction on Luke that Snyder did with Superman.

    I’m telling you, this bait and switch really really pissed off fans who spend the $$ on the toys and collectibles in a way no critic or moviegoer ever will.

    Audience score on RT already dropped back down a point after gaining it.

    This movie left such a bad taste in fan circles I keep reading about people cancelling collectible orders or wanting to sell all Disney sequel merch and just stick to the Lucas era.

    Hamill tried to warn the fans passively in the press putting it out ahead that he didn’t agree with the changes to the character. I wonder how he’s enjoying his slice of “I was right.”

    It will be interesting to see how ancillary markets are affected from this. As they definitely will be.

    ETA: Say what you want about JJ and TFA, but at least he honored the characters. He set Luke up not to be in exile, but searching for a greater power to save his nephew. That is in character and honoring the character. RJ took a hammer to all the setups JJ had with TFA. I would have no problem if JJ did turnabout and brought Luke back and have his true hero moments we want to see. It’s a space fantasy anything can happen.

  72. GdB says:

    Also, how da fuq did KK and Kasdan or whomever sign off on letting all this happen to Luke?

    Clearly they don’t know the formula for the magic as much as they claim.

    This is the difference b/w KK and Feige. KK is an excellent producer but not a true SW fan (as far as we know) Feige grew up on Marvel and respects the canon. I don’t think KK would’ve signed off on these changes to Luke if she really understood the material.

  73. GdB says:

    Oops! Sorry for the double post in this thread and wknd box office.

  74. JS Partisan says:

    GbB, Kennedy was the worst choice for SW. She never ever seemed to grasp what she was given, and she keeps making decisions that are going to hurt the brand sooner or later. Maybe SOLO making 625 million, will start some discussions about her? Who knows? Feige needs to run SW, because he also loves SW as well.

  75. Geoff says:

    Don’t want to go off on a genuine tangent JS but I’m genuinely curious as to how Robocop is NOT a “simple” film – simple is NOT a criticism mind you. Even with all of the satire and bat-shit side character moments, Verhoeven STILL keeps that film to 102 minutes and that’s fucking impressive – he KEEPS the story about Murphy and only Murphy even allowing for some decent screen-time devoted to Miguel Ferrer and Ronny Cox chewing the scenery….hell thinking about that movie now, that should be THE template for origin stories! Just amazing that it achieves as much as Wonder Woman, Batman Begins or Iron Man with much less to work with.

    But back to Star Wars and I think some of you folks might be a BIT too rough on Rian Johnson – it’s a well-directed movie and there’s a uniqueness there that sorry is just not prevalent in your typical JJ facsimile. Regarding the story, I STILL think at the end of the day, Johnson was trying to make the best of what JJ and Kasdan saddled him with in The Force Awakens – to be fair JS and crew, was it really Rian Johnson’s decision to make Luke some defeated hermit hiding out on the other side of the galaxy?? That was set up in The Force Awakens. Was it Johnson’s decision to make Rey omnipotent (yeah she’s a Mary Sue, deal with it!) enough to hold her own in a light saber battle with Kylo AND lecture Solo on how to fix the Falcon?? Once again, that was JJ and Kasdan. Was it Johnson’s decision to make it about the Empire AGAIN but not but yeah really even if you’re calling it the First Order this time…and not only is the Empire WINNING again, they created a BIGGER Death Star this time…..and guess what happened to the big victory achieved by the crew in ‘Jedi?? DONE….all gone to shit, we’re still REBELS, we’re still underdogs….that was ALL JJ and Kasdan. 😉

    As far as I’m concerned, Rian Johnson only had mostly bad story choices to choose from – let Rey’s parents be nobodies and YES it feels like a let-down after JJ’s Mystery-Box bullshit promising it would be something more but….make Rey’s parents some one we know and it just shrinks the universe EVEN further which is the last thing KK and crew want to do if they want to continue this story indefinitely. And if you make Luke an more active participant, turn him into Mickey Goldmill or something like that….that feels like a 180 from how he was set up at the end of TFA and you’re having to basically reintroduce the character at that point.

    Nope Johnson had shit choices to choose from and sadly, it seems that he made some unforced errors in addition to compound them – the casino sequence was like out of a different movie and it’s even debatable whether that was really HIS choosing to have it in there.

    He’s a good director and no matter what critics are saying right now about how good the film is, he needs to take on some different interesting Star Wars-related shit SOON – comparing him to Nolan when he took on Batman Beings is kind of fair since that was four years after Memento but Nolan still had a mid-budget studio film in-between with Insomnia to cut his teeth a bit with A-list actors like Pacino and Robin Williams….for career longevity, Rian Johnson needed his own Insomnia BETWEEN this and Looper, FIVE years is a long time to pass in the filmography of an aspiring director and if he’s not careful, he’s in danger of becoming the next Marc Webb….or Richard Marqand. 😛

    And far be it from me to defend Disney or Kathleen Kennedy here but what EXACTLY they did do with this movie that was SO controversial?? :) The Last Jedi is pretty much a safe, inoffensive entertainment that’s eager to please and entertain – it’s like Return of the Jedi actually….just 25 minutes longer, with more Ewoks, less payoff, but…..better acting. 😉 It’s a fucking Star Wars movie at the end of the day….you guys REALLY think that Luke is going anywhere??

    Yeah I know that Hamill is doing his post-mortem shit-talking about the film now and defending the legacy of George Lucas, but Lucasfilm dishes him $5 mill and 10 years of guaranteed voice-work on Disney XD ‘toons, he’ll be back in a fucking second to do 20 minutes as a force-ghost in Episode IX – bank on it! :)

    And JS, you’re smarter than going on about how they “betrayed” Lucas with this movie – here I am defending Disney AGAIN but sorry after hearing for 15 years how the Prequels were an abomination, can you blame them?! Yes he had his fucking mysterious “outline” for all nine episodes mapped out in 1978…and all of that Expanded Universe shit that went wild for several years, but NOBODY was making him sell this shit off – he could have just sat on it for the rest of his living years just like Zemeckis/Gale are with BTTF and everybody would have been cool.

    No way man just watching the bullshit that has happened with Ridley Scott and Alien this past year, I am FINE with some of these filmmakers just letting this shit go and MOVING ON – they had their time with these properties and it’s ok to let some one else play in the sandbox – yeah along those lines, I don’t need another Terminator movie either, I don’t give a shit if Cameron’s producing either. It’s a fool’s errand to let folks like Scott or Lucas or even Cameron keep trying to “expand” their legacy with this stuff….for every Mad Max Fury Road or Blade Runner 2049, there are literally a dozen Alien Covenants, Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps, Terminator Geneysi, Jurassic Worlds, Independence Day Resurgi, etc….best to just leave the past where it belongs, in the past.

  76. JS Partisan says:

    Geoff, The Last Jedi is as bad as all of those films you mentioned. Seriously, it fits in with writers and directors, that are given properties, and have no idea what to do with them. What they do with them, is garbage.

    Also, George would probably admit, that he should have sold Star Wars to Warners. They would have made the films he wanted to make, but he was given assurances. He’s stated as much, but Disney decided to give him a Bespin deal.

    You also, are fucking ignoring, that MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE OFFENDED. It’s offensive, as a movie. Mark was right, and everything Rian came up with… is garbage.

    And Geoff, Robocop has a ton of moving pieces. It’s not a simple movie, but we totally see the world completely and utterly different.

  77. Amblinman says:

    @Geoff we can argue back and forth on what JJ supposedly left Rian to work with. Problem is Johnson decided to wipe all of out and leave us with the most banal part of TFA, which is Empire v Resistence. That is literally the only thread dangling at the end of Jedi. There is no investment in any of the players now.

  78. JS Partisan says:

    Man, and that just bums me out. Seriously. The Rey’s parents thing? Yeah. It sucks. Snoke? Sucks even more. The story of the film without those things, is just a really ridiculous movie.

  79. Amblinman says:

    @JS, 100%. What is it we’re supposed to want to see in the next film? I have no idea what Dave is referring to when he gets exciting by the new ideas proposed here. Force sensatives as Mutants, sprouting up through out the galaxy? Wanna know what was new for SW? A Stormtrooper finding a conscience. An insecure but powerful Sith apprentice. I’m tired of people insisting TFA was just ANH repeat. Yes, it took layers from it but made something new that looked like it was going to *expand* on the mythos. Jedi just wipes it all away.

    Also, stop telling me RJ is a good director. He has a space battle that involved the need to DROP bombs. In space. Drop. Fuck you.

    And on the point that Hamill is no Ford and thus couldn’t be part of an action set piece? I call bullshit. It didn’t need to be a dancing acrobat sword fight like we got in the prequels. Skywalker deserved a better moment than sitting on a rock.

  80. Geoff says:

    “Also, stop telling me RJ is a good director. He has a space battle that involved the need to DROP bombs. In space. Drop. Fuck you.

    And on the point that Hamill is no Ford and thus couldn’t be part of an action set piece? I call bullshit. It didn’t need to be a dancing acrobat sword fight like we got in the prequels. Skywalker deserved a better moment than sitting on a rock.”

    First….needless profanity aside, from the get-go this saga NEVER played by the laws of physics and Lucas was always taking inspiration from old-school fighter pilot footage so he probably would have been RIGHT on-board with the concept of the “bomber” and that scene also features one of the emotional high-points of the film with Rose’s sister sacrificing herself like that – not sure if there was enough build-up to earn it but it works.

    Second – no, haven’t we been down this road too many times before? Lucasfilm got shit on (justifiably too) for reviving a walking, talking Tarkin in Rogue One last year and having Hamill doing a lot of saber-play could have looked JUST as silly…..like Christopher Lee in ‘Clones silly. Even the consensus now among the most die hard-Star Wars fans nowadays is that watching Guiness slowly swinging that roto-scope shit in A New Hope looked as dull as shit! 😉 Short of hiring those WETA motion capture experts from the recent ‘Apes movies to extend production by six months and REALLY work with a likeness of Hamill to perfect that shit for less than 10 minutes of screen-time, I don’t think they could have pulled it off well enough to make fans happy nor to prevent embarrassing Hamill. I get the sense that the WAY they did it (though understandably disappointing for a lot of fans) was the most feasible at the end of the day. And in retrospect, that makes it more understandable why JJ probably chose to go the easier route by pushing Luke to the background and Solo to the foreground in TFA.

  81. Geoff says:

    “Also, George would probably admit, that he should have sold Star Wars to Warners. They would have made the films he wanted to make, but he was given assurances. He’s stated as much, but Disney decided to give him a Bespin deal.”

    You might be surprised by this but I am SO glad that Warners didn’t buy Star Wars and they would have “made the films he wanted to make” seriously?? NO THANK YOU! :)

    Yeah I love Warners as a studio and I dig how they are the most auter-friendly but they do that shit to a FAULT oftentimes enough for me to know that dishing out $5 billion to George Lucas so they could then give him the Clint Eastwood “Hey that’s Grandpa over there on the lot, just ignore him….yeah we give about $30 million a year to direct whatever he wants, he’s earned it – sometimes they’re even good!” treatment but on a MUCH larger scale, no way that would have made their Wachowski and Zack Snyder embarrassments look muted by comparison. And I don’t even think that Lucas is as competent a filmmaker at this point as Snyder, the Wachowskis OR Eastwood!

    Honestly at this point, the Lucasfilm acquisition has probably paid for itself a few times over at Disney but I’m starting to wonder that if in about five years time, they’ll be doing more with Avatar.

  82. Geoff says:

    Re Robocop: if you can describe the plot in less than ten words, then the film is simple by design. Jaws and Die Hard were simple too, doesn’t make them bad.

  83. JS Partisan says:

    Geoff. You can’t describe Robocop in less than ten words. You have a fucking police union, that’s dealing with being owned by a major corporation. You have an officer from the suburbs, that goes to work downtown. He gets a partner, and they go about being cops.

    See? You want to dumb down everything into this formula you believe in, and man, you are smart than that formula. You are one of my favorite people on this blog, even though I fuck with you, because you aren’t a fucking idiot. We disagree about damn near everything, but are far from a moron.

    And motherfucker, they aren’t doing shit with Avatar. Who wants that shit? I know this blog lives in a time bubble, where the biggest film of all time is still discussed in hush and reserved tones, but come the fuck on. They have TRANSFORMERS MOVIE BOX OFFICE DECLINE written all over them. Thank god. We are finally getting a Battle Angel.

    Oh yeah, George and Ardnt would have made a movie about family, and not OP protagonist/antagonist. He would have made a movie about family, and that’s what Star Wars is about. Oh. I forgot. SW is about NO LORE, BECAUSE LORE IS TOO SCARY FOR LITTLE RIAN!

    Man, you are right the fuck on. I agree in totality. Also, why hasn’t anyone brought up, THAT FORCE PROJECTION LUKE HAS SHORT HAIR AND A FUCKING DYE JOB? What the fuck?

  84. David Poland says:

    This is an entire thread of JS Partisan ranting like a stuck pig.

    I keep saying the same thing… this film is a reboot. The oldsters are now in the back seat. Luke will be back like Yoda was back. But we’re moving on… and maybe it will be great… and maybe it will not. But all this canon crap is for the birds.

  85. Amblinman says:

    “But all this canon crap is for the birds.”

    Love it when people say stuff like this.

    Disney acquires the IP for 4b. Expectations of box office is through the roof with each new release. Once every other year now you see actual lines at movie theaters again.

    But the canon is crap and no one cares. Okay. Brilliant analysis is brilliant.

  86. Amblinman says:

    @Geoff

    “Lucas would have done it!” Doesn’t mean shit to me. I still don’t like the prequels. It was a dumb sequence poorly plotted and executed. The sequence with Rose’s sister was junk. She’s kicking a gigantic bomber to knock the 1980’s TV remote into her hand so she can drop bombs in space.

    Back to Hamill: again, you’re insisting the only way it works if horrible CGI is used. We disagree. We got a small taste of a potential fight involving Luke at the end. It came across fine. And no one is suggesting he be part of some 20 minute saberfest such as the end of Sith. Comparing Hamill’s physical state in this movie to Guiness’s in ANH doesn’t work. Hamill looks in perfectly fine shape.

  87. JS Partisan says:

    David, no, I am sorry you have a problem with discussion on a BLOG, and guess what? You are fucking wrong, and Man is fucking right. They spent 4bn for this canon, and guess what? They have been successful with producing some great new canon for these characters. Phasma has a great book, the comics are almost all really fun excursions with the characters, and their books have helped expand their universe.

    What did LFL and Disney do with this film? Flip the bird at all of that shit, and you are stating that’s a good idea? Really? This is why I have stated time and time again, that you should stick in your lane. It’s not franchise films. It’s art house films, because you lost connection to your fan side a long time ago.

    You just don’t wave your hand, and say, “Oh, it will be fine. The new swinging cats are leading the day.” No. Once again, that’s not Star Wars. Star Wars is a thing, and treating it like shit isn’t going to do Disney any favors.

  88. Glamourboy says:

    “What Glamourboy is positing is like saying every time a new Stones album comes out it’s only for 13-15yr olds and not the boomers who grew up with them.”

    I took my 6 year old nephew to see TLJ, his first experience of a Star Wars film in a theater. He loved it. I mean, LOVED it. Can’t stop talking about it. For Christmas he is getting all the toys. His favorite characters are all the new characters. That is what I’m trying to say. GdB’s example of a Stones album is completely wrong. The Stones, or any band, are allowed and should be encouraged to go in any direction they want. They may not make the album that the Stones fanboys want. Ever. Again. But you have the early albums to listen to. Star Wars is moving forward. The old characters are too old or too dead to continue on. You can make all the excuses in the world for Mark Hamill but he looked like he could barely move much less fight. Sorry, but your favorite characters are going to die. All of them. (And seriously, don’t watch Game of Thrones if you feel possessive about your favorite characters.) I think what makes me laugh the most is how the fanboys (and yes, let’s note the lack of women screaming out their entitlement here)…think they OWN this world. You are only renting a seat, my friend. And like with anything else…you don’t like it…don’t buy a ticket. Want to change it, create your own story. Or you could be just JSP and use your power of INFERENCE (hey, its a thing) and write pages and pages of blog of angry rubbish. Yes, JSP, instead of writing a book, or your own screenplay or some other creative endeavor, why don’t you just continue to use your time here to talk about how untalented everyone else is. The sad thing is, nobody fucking cares. You hate the new Star Wars movie, you can’t find any joy in it….you’re the only one that loses out. I’m taking my nephew to see it for a second time on Friday and we’re both pretty excited.

  89. JS Partisan says:

    What’s funny about you, GB. I can’t have an opinion, because you don’t like me. I can’t post here, because you don’t like me. I have to go and write shit, because you don’t like me. Say I write a book, make a TV show, or write a movie. You would hate it, because I wrote it. I just can’t win with you. Damn it! I TRY SO FUCKING HARD TO DO IT! I JUST TRY SO HARD!

    That’s just… ugh. Also, don’t buy him the toys. Buy him the black series. Spend about 50 bucks, and get him the nice Kylo and Rey from Walmart and TRU respectively. They are well made and he can play with them to his wits end. The 3.75″ toys are just not well made, and will just break on him. Don’t let his first SW toys, be shit SW toys.

    Oh yeah. If you don’t like something, then you don’t get anything from it. It’s not like this is going to be a great Rifftrax film.

  90. Geoff says:

    @Amblin – I’m not saying that Hamill’s decrepit or anything….though yeah he actually is about the same age that Guiness was for A New Hope believe it or not! I mean I GUESS they could have had him fly in the ‘Falcon and shoot shit down, hell they probably could have had him use the force to lift and crush some Imperial Walkers or some shit like that….that would have been super-cool sure. But after seeing Magneto lift a submarine or RFK stadium, would that kind of thing even feel as special anymore?

    Like I said, I get the disappointment over how Luke was used and Hamill himself was clearly disappointed but at the end of the day, JJ and Kasdan STILL set up him as a bitter hermit hiding away on a remote island after failing his nephew – I don’t know how much of a course correction Johnson could have really done for that without doubling his screen-time in a 2.5 movie that was already overstuffed.

  91. Geoff says:

    “And motherfucker, they aren’t doing shit with Avatar. Who wants that shit? I know this blog lives in a time bubble, where the biggest film of all time is still discussed in hush and reserved tones, but come the fuck on. They have TRANSFORMERS MOVIE BOX OFFICE DECLINE written all over them. Thank god. We are finally getting a Battle Angel.”

    JS, you DO realize they’re already spending more than a half a billion on Pandora: World of Avatar for Disney World right?? :) Man come three years from now, there’s going to be Navi Blue ALL over Disney Stores across the country!

    And before we just ASSUME that Avatar will follow a Transformers-like trajectory, how about we see how the first sequel does first? We’re now lumping James-fucking-Cameron in – the man who directed T2 and Aliens – with Michael Bay suddenly?? :)

    Dude I know you hated the movie and yeah, it hasn’t seeped into the consciousness since them like many would have thought (myself included)….but we’re not talking an Alice in Wonderland 3D-based flash-in-the-pan burn-out here either. That shit drops 50% not accounting for inflation, you STILL have Avengers-level grosses at the end of the day and make no mistake, NOW that the property is under the Disney umbrella (another discussion but fuck that acquisition and I hope they don’t tank ‘Searchlight), they are going to clear a path and market the ever-loving shit out of it to ENSURE that it does at least that. Thanks to this ridiculous acquisition, Disney will make sure that nothing Marvel nor Star Wars opens within two months of an Avatar sequel which would not have been the case otherwise.

  92. JS Partisan says:

    No, they set Luke up as the only hope the resistance had. You can’t have Lars Son Tekka tell Poe, “This will start to make it right again,” and then turn that into Episode VIII.

    If you read any of the post mortems. It becomes crystal clear, that Rian Johnson has nothing but bad ideas. Everyone of his ideas is to recoil to LORE and CANON. So, again, it doesn’t matter.

    Geoff, I am not sure that deal happens. Disney, literally needs Democrats to not get in power, and I’d rather have people in power who don’t want to kill me. Unless they pass this shit in lameduck next year. I don’t see how democrats let it pass. I really don’t, so it’s a wait and see on this whole thing right now.

    And guess what? Pandora land is cool, even without AVATAR branding. I don’t have to let that fucking first sequel come out. Here. Keep this shit for posterity. 2, will get 1.5, and the next three will be above or right below a billion.

    If he put this shit out in 2010. He would have had two two billion dollar movies. He didn’t, people don’t care about Avatar, and that whole generation grew up on MSCU, and SW.

  93. amblinman says:

    ” But after seeing Magneto lift a submarine or RFK stadium, would that kind of thing even feel as special anymore?”

    It’s not about the action itself, it’s about the WHO is doing the action. Seeing Luke Skywalker engaged in a fight again is pretty special. Seriously. Think about it. The idea of Luke Skywalker taking the fight to a new Empire in 2017 would have been pretty amazing. Literally anything would have been better than “Sits on a rock, dies.” And yeah, he’s about the same age as Guiness was in ANH but that doesn’t really translate anymore. Actors today are in much better shape than their colleagues from previous decades. Hamill looked pretty good when he was facing down Ren in the finale. They could have easily editied together a convincing showdown that didn’t require Hamill to go all UFC or anything.

    JS is absolutely right: JJ and Kasden seemed to be setting up Skywalker as a key to the fight. Unless we find out differently, it seems it was RJ who decided on everything else after. And none of it felt in line with Luke. C’mon. The guy turned the biggest badass in the galaxy into a good guy. You’re telling me his first instinct with his own nephew is to straight up murder him? And then hide after he had helped create this new sadistic breed of Sith (I’m including the Knights of Ren, which I hope are still a thing and feature in the next movie). No sale.

  94. Monco says:

    The final force hologram sequence is all the worse because it looked so good. Why is it hard to imagine an old Luke leading a group of young Jedi into battle like Mace Windu in Clones? He doesn’t have to be the star. By all means let Rey be his foremost pupil and do badass shit but don’t completely destroy the legacy of the character. What makes the final sequence awful is that it’s like Johnson is taunting the audience. “You want to see this? Well we could do it easily but we are not going to. Now sit there and take it.” It’s a movie that feels like it was made by someone who hated the OT.

    What is interesting to me too is that all of these directors are being fired from this franchise over “creative differences”. Kathleen Kennedy has been quick to race out and say essentially its because these directors aren’t treating the material correctly. Yet she allows this film to be made that destorys the OT. As another poster said: weird.

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