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David Poland

By David Poland poland@moviecitynews.com

BYOB 121516: It’s The Big Studio Holiday Rollout!!!

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32 Responses to “BYOB 121516: It’s The Big Studio Holiday Rollout!!!”

  1. brack says:

    Rogue One was good, though not great. It gets going in the last half, and there’s one particular scene that everyone seems to love that makes absolutely no sense, but since it was this character doing it, people have been blinded by the flaw.

  2. MarkVH says:

    Yeah, I enjoyed Rogue One as well. I particularly loved that it had the courage to follow through to its logical conclusion. Also, the action is flat-out terrific.

    Biggest problem for me – and it was a big problem with Lucas’ prequels as well – is the PAINSTAKING effort to make every little piece connect to the original movie. Disney just seems to be terrified to let this universe breathe, which is probably what prompted the Gilroy re-shoots.

    Still, all in all a good time, and I enjoyed it on the whole more than The Force Awakens.

  3. Dr Wally Rises says:

    The fact that Fortysomething first-generation Star Warsies in particular are blowing their load over Rogue One is telling. Lucas was upfront about the fact that he made the prequels for a new generation of kids. Force Awakens was essentially a pilot for the new Disneyfied iteration of the franchise. But R1 feels like it’ll be best appreciated by the now adult Gen-X’ers who felt either betrayed or left behind by the the franchise. Nevertheless, it’s still the best franchise blockbuster of the year by some distance. Kudos for Edwards / Gilroy and co. for taking the property into darker and more complex areas (note that even the Rebellion is far from morally spotless in the movie) than it’s inhabited since about 1980.

  4. JS Partisan says:

    Let the universe breathe? The universe breathes just fine. That aside, this is what happens, when old men who were mad at the prequels, have the ability to make a Star Wars movie. Star Wars is gritty fucking enough. George or JJ/Kasdan/Ardnt didn’t have to do something as stupid, as to FORGET WHO STAR WARS EXIST FOR… KIDS AND FAMILIES! This film, is like the Star Wars equivalent, of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo coming out at Xmas. “Hey, Sue! Do you want to go see Lisbeth Salander, get a dildo shoved up her ass? I mean, IT’S XMAS!” Now it’s, “Hey kids and grandparents! You want to go and spend fucking two and a half hours, watching a miserable fucking Star Wars film, where fucking everyone dies? COME ON! IT’S XMAS!”

    I am sorry angry late Boomers and Gen Xers, but Star Wars isn’t yours alone. It’s a multi-generational property, that has fans of all ages. Most of those fans, are kids, and now they have this fucking movie. A movie, where Disney has gone out of their way to demonstrate, that THEY ARE NOT MAKING THESE MOVIES FOR THE RIGHT FUCKING AUDIENCE!

    They still want to make toys, but what kid wants the KILLED IN ACTION ACTION FIGURE set? What kid wants to dress as Jyn Erso for Halloween, outside of that ten year old girl, who likes morbid shit? Not having any of these characters survive, is as stupid as making Rey anyone, but Luke’s daughter. It screams of wanting to be GRITTY, COOL, and 90s GENERATION X-TREME!

    Seriously. Disney are like the Clinton campaign, with this property. You want to trust them, that they know what they are doing, but they really have no idea what the fuck they are doing. I hope they enjoy all of that Rogue One merch they have to buy back, because this movie cuts their nose, to spite their face. Here’s to Episode VIII, fixing this shit, but again… Clinton Campaign.

    Oh yeah, we live in a world where the idiots at Disney, DO NOT PUT AN EPISODE VIII TRAILER IN FRONT OF THIS FUCKING MOVIE! I cannot wait, for Iger and Kennedy to retire, so Horn and Kev can bring some fucking HOPE back to the god damn galaxy.

  5. Geoff says:

    Yeah I saw Rogue One last night and am pretty much in agreement with you guys – I liked it for the most part, definitely goes darker places that no other Star Wars film has gone before but still WAY too fan-servicey. I found it had the pacing issues of the first two prequels – takes at least an hour for the plot to really kick in – but NONE of the crappy dialogue which is a big plus of course. 😉 And all good performances too.

    SPOILER ALERT

    And yes, the CGI-enhanced cameos were pretty well done but still took me out of the movie for a bit – it’s a bit weird actually considering they re-cast the role of Mon Mothma and found a dead-on look-alike but couldn’t try with the others. Maybe they did? The uncanny valley effect was still there but you can tell that we’ve made some SERIOUS progress six years after Tron Legacy too.

    I liked it but I’m obviously in the target audience: adult Gen-Xer who grew up on the original trilogy – the film is definitely geared towards die hard-Star Wars fans and yes, Disney is obviously scared of venturing too far out because this was NOT really a “stand-alone” film or a “spin-off” nor will a Young Han Solo film be either.

  6. JS Partisan says:

    Here’s hoping, that the Han Solo film, is fucking fun.

  7. Geoff says:

    JS, I agree with you that these films are logical results from directors in our age group like Abrams and Edwards who LOVE the original trilogy but want to re-purpose the series for THEMSELVES. I had issues with The Force Awakens but let’s face it: it was EXACTLY the type of film you hire a JJ Abrams to direct and he delivered.

    SPOILER ALERT

    But didn’t Disney/Lucasfilm kind of write themselves into a corner with this movie? How can you NOT kill off the main characters when you’re placing events literally RIGHT before the beginning of Episode 4 and we never hear about them again? They had to do that and it WAS well-executed.

    “They still want to make toys, but what kid wants the KILLED IN ACTION ACTION FIGURE set? What kid wants to dress as Jyn Erso for Halloween, outside of that ten year old girl, who likes morbid shit? Not having any of these characters survive, is as stupid as making Rey anyone, but Luke’s daughter. It screams of wanting to be GRITTY, COOL, and 90s GENERATION X-TREME!”

    Good point – I’m taking my daughters to see it next week and I would be very curious to see if they have any interest in dressing up like Gyn Urso for Halloween next year just like they already have with Padme and Leia. 😉 But regardless, Disney is not stupid when it comes to merchandising….they’ll just sell a shit-ton more of “updated” Darth Vader figures in the wake of this film.

  8. JS Partisan says:

    Geoff, I take it like this: this game is BATTLEFRONT the movie. Every BATTLEFRONT battle for the rebellion, has at least one winner. It is reasonable, that they would want to make a sequel with some of these characters, because MANY BOTHANS DIED in ROTJ. You would think, that they would want to do something more with Jones and Luna, but they just waste it.

    I know the way the Marvel films do things, isn’t always your bag, Geoff. Could you imagine though, Marvel Studios having that kind of talent, and not wanting to do more with it? It’s just short sighted shit, from people who really aren’t seeing these films as anything more than profit, which is fine, but Star Wars isn’t about the money. Disney, seems to just want the money.

  9. Geoff says:

    “Geoff, I take it like this: this game is BATTLEFRONT the movie. Every BATTLEFRONT battle for the rebellion, has at least one winner. It is reasonable, that they would want to make a sequel with some of these characters, because MANY BOTHANS DIED in ROTJ. You would think, that they would want to do something more with Jones and Luna, but they just waste it.”

    I’m not so sure that they’re wasted actually…look at the mileage that has been driven on Boba Fett even more than 30 years after his character was unceremoniously killed in ‘Jedi or Darth Maul after his character was “killed” 17 years ago – there can be prequel comics, character-oriented novels like Tarkin (which I hear is very good), and/or recurring roles on Star Wars Rebels or their next regular series. Who to say that they can’t have a Cassian Andor stand-alone thriller in a few years….as long as Diego Luna ages ridiculously well, he’s in his late ’30’s??

  10. Geoff says:

    As for Marvel JS, I have no issue with it any longer – I have accepted it as the big budget workplace sitcom with superheroes and can enjoy it that way just fine. I had a good time with Ant-Man and Doctor Strange as well-funded “bottle episodes” – there’s no reason for Marvel to veer from that formula, I get it now….I just don’t see why so many other studios have to try to ape that formula, there’s other ways to consistently bring in revenue while still crafting distinctive movies.

  11. JS Partisan says:

    Boba Fett, has never been dead. He’s not even dead in this new era, of Disney bullshit. Why? BOBA FETT ISN’T A CHUMP! HE WILL RISE!

    That aside, Geoff, imagine a Rogue Two. Where Jyn and Casdian, have to come out of hiding, and steal these plans again. It would be a PTSD movie, but in the Star Wars universe. The universe could use that sort of BREATHING, but Disney doesn’t have a clue what the fuck they are doing. There is a reason why everyone wants to be Marvel, Geoff. They want the prestige, and the ability to release mid-level, that punch way above their weight.

    Rogue One, good or bad, is a fucking disaster in terms of what Star Wars is about, but you know… GENERATION Xers NEED THEIR POUND OF FLESH! TFA isn’t perfect, but it’s at least Star Wars.

  12. MarkVH says:

    SPOILER ALERT

    Worst and most shameless fan service moment in Rogue One is Bail Organa’s “I have a friend who served me in the Clone Wars and I’ll send word to him blah blah blah” moment. Having Bail in the movie was a really nice touch and an acknowledgement that, yes, the prequels do in fact exist (something TFA never really did). But needing him to toss off a boneheaded mention of Obi-Wan (thereby blowing the ANH moments where Obi gets to be saddened and shocked by the Death Star) underlined the biggest problems with the movie as a whole.

  13. Dr Wally Rises says:

    The Obi Wan reference wasn’t fan-service, to be honest it would have been more jarring if he wasn’t mentioned. Leia was looking to send the plans to him specifically at the start of ANH, lest we forget. And to be really pedantic, they didn’t recast Mon Mothma. Caroline Blakiston played the part in Revenge of the Sith, but her scenes were consigned to the DVD. As for the CGI Tarkin, the comparisons to Tron Legacy and Ant Man are a little unfair. They were still real performances from Jeff Bridges and Michael Douglas with a live actor to reference. A better comparison would be the CGI Paul Walker in F&F7, and the effect works a lot better here. Roger Ebert once wrote that he didn’t think anyone could ever be fooled by a computer generated actor, but we’re not far off.

  14. Monco says:

    “The fact that Fortysomething first-generation Star Warsies in particular are blowing their load over Rogue One is telling.”

    This was the same thing that happened with TFA. It tells us nothing other than whatever mediocre piece of crap Disney churns out will be loved by these 40 year old adolscents who hated the prequels and can’t grow up.

  15. Geoff says:

    “There is a reason why everyone wants to be Marvel, Geoff. They want the prestige, and the ability to release mid-level, that punch way above their weight.”

    Please….what “prestige” besides inflated Rotten Tomatoes scores for films that are forgotten less than three months after they are released with folks just waiting for the next episode? 😉

    What “they” want plain and simple is the MONEY that comes from a shared universe at peak performance – a reliable IP that you can give you steady revenue EVERY year WITHOUT having to overpay any one star and/or director to keep it going….which is all fine and good unless you have to shell out $50 million to Robert Downey Jr. every year eventually just for inflated cameos, then the math ends up working against you.

    Relax though JS – that’s several years off.

    SPOILER ALERT

    As for Rogue One, JS I’m not really sure what you’re so angry about to be honest – it’s a BIG galaxy and SOME folks have to die. Hell it’s called Star WARS and in WARS, usually LOTS of people die.

    Besides having major characters die – when done ORGANICALLY – is essential towards any ongoing narrative and/or shared universe…or any great story for that matter! :)

    SPOILER ALERT

    Would Lord of the Rings worked NEARLY as well if Boromir didn’t die nobly in Fellowship?

    Would Game of Thrones worked as well if Ned Stark didn’t die in the first season?

    Would The Godfather have been as intense if Sonny didn’t get massacred at that toll booth?

    Would Jaws have been as satisfying and frightening if Quint didn’t get eaten by the shark in the third act?

    And yes, would Star Wars Episode IV even have had a dramatic launching point without Obi Wan being killed by Darth Vader??

    It’s not about getting a “pound of flesh”….it’s called having actual STAKES my brother. (Are you listening Marvel?)

    Not to say it always works – shows like The Walking Dead fuck with their audiences by PRETENDING that characters have died and/or just MILKING their deaths for effect for several episodes.

    And yes, Boba Fett did die at least according to canon – he got swallowed up in the Sarlac Pit remember? 😉 And Darth Maul got chopped in half and dropped down a long chamber in his only big screen appearance. And yet years later, Lucasfilm is still able to milk those characters for all of the cash they need. You can still get new Maul/Fett toys and you’ll still see folks cos playing as those characters.

    So relax man – you’ll get a stand-alone novel on Casdian soon enough. 😉

  16. JS Partisan says:

    Darth Mail is a part of Rebels. He didn’t die on that day in TPM either. Boba Fett, has popped up, vaguely, in the new canon books, so he’s still not a dead character.

    Also, there is an inherent difference between a make up/costume character, and a humanoid character. Seriously, in the history of this toy line. It is rare to have multiple dead characters, human characters, as a wave of figures.

    Disney, seemingly, reshot this movie, it seems, to kill off these characters. Which is dumb. Not as dumb as claiming ANH is this film’s sequel, but still pretty fucking stupid.

    And Geoff, no one forgets Marvel films. That’s the point.

  17. Stella's Boy says:

    That isn’t true JS. Obviously you know I don’t like Marvel films, but I work with other film nerds at a university, many of whom are studying film, and they are much bigger fans of comic book movies than I am (and we argue civilly about them constantly). But they dislike many Marvel films and find some of them very forgettable. Which is fine. That shouldn’t diminish anyone’s fondness for those movies if that’s their bag. I like a lot of Blumhouse movies, but some of them are forgettable crap. And so it goes.

    Is there any reason to see Rogue One if I haven’t seen The Force Awakens yet? I’ve got all the snow shoveled and am thinking about taking my 9-year-old, but neither of us has seen TFA.

  18. Sideshow Bill says:

    Personal note: I love the Marvel movies but I remember almost nothing at all about Thor 2. I saw it in the theater, and have never watched it since. I remember liking it. I remember when Thor smashes the rock guy. I remember the “twist” at the end. It was barely 2 weeks after my wife died so maybe that has something to do with it. But otherwise I’m a blank on that one.

  19. Geoff says:

    Come on now JS, you’re sounding like a Trump supporter – there IS a middle ground on these topics you know. 😉

    SPOILER ALERT

    Yes the seams from the re-shoots were fairly obvious in Rogue One but I’m not seeing how the MAIN drive from the Disney machine was to ensure that those main characters died! I have little doubt that they were ALWAYS going to die – infact I would gather that moving image of Gyn and Cassion on the beach with the shockwave of the Death Star blast swallowing them up was likely the ORIGINAL final shot. But hey, the Vader stuff in that hallway was AWESOME and well worth it…..the final shot with Leia was a nice idea just poorly executed with iffy CGI. I can see why it was done though – obviously it benefits the brand to end the film on a note of “hope.”

    There was obviously stuff with Forest Whitaker and Riz Amed which was left on the cutting room floor which is a shame but the first hour was already overloaded with choppy exposition.

    I don’t know I’m guessing this was similar to what happened with Batman V Superman – Edwards was probably delivering a three hour cut that was WAY too dark and they needed to lighten it up and streamline it resulting…in a film that felt very choppy for half its run-time. Gotta give Disney, Gilroy, and Weitz props though: that third act really soars, probably some of the best action we have ever seen in a Star Wars film.

    “Darth Mail is a part of Rebels. He didn’t die on that day in TPM either. Boba Fett, has popped up, vaguely, in the new canon books, so he’s still not a dead character.”

    It’s funny but we’re actually not disagreeing on this one, JS – yes Darth Maul has popped up on Rebels AND Clone Wars, they’ve made extensive use of his character even after his supposed “death” in The Phantom Menace. And guess what?? They can do the SAME thing with Cassian Andor – GUARANTEE, the character becomes a recurring character on Rebels next season giving a Diego Luna a regular vocal gig and gobs of cash from convention appearances for the rest of this life. So once again, Disney will still be able milk cash from that stone. 😉

  20. Geoff says:

    “And Geoff, no one forgets Marvel films. That’s the point.”

    Suuure they’re all going to be memorialized with AFI and the Library of Congress fifty years from now.

    Wanna keep going on this one?? Fine go to the average person on the street and ask them: quote me a line of dialogue delivered by Bane (2012) or Ultron (2015)….ask them if they remember who played Catwoman in Batman Returns (1992) OR who played Baron Zemo in ‘Civil War (2016)….THAT’S the difference between actual MOVIES and big-screen TV! :)

  21. Pete B. says:

    I’ve seen Ant-Man twice and can’t remember it.

    Does Darth Maul have a really nasty scar? Only one piece bathing suits for him.

  22. Geoff says:

    Never saw a whole episode but from what I can remember, they give him mechanical legs to us Pete – one pieces won’t cover that up.

  23. JS Partisan says:

    No, Pete. He has an awesome pair of cybernetic legs, he misses his brother, and he’s looking for someone.

    Geoff, a trump supporter? Good fucking lord, that’s such shit, and there is no middle ground with you, or even Stella’s associates. Why? If the Marvel movies do not work for you, then something grand and awesome is passing you by on a grand scale. You make all of these toolish comments, Geoff. All of these dicky asides about the MCU, but it’s the MCU. You folks in here, may not like it, but scoreboard doesn’t lie. Oh look. DC is crying about all those views, that a GUARDIANS trailer can receive. While you know, everyone watches the Wonder Woman trailer and goes, “I hope that shit doesn’t suck.” BIG SCREEN TV? Better than ZACK SNYDER’S POORLY PRODUCED SHIT SHOWS!

    Now, no one is going to remember a line from Bane, but they sure as shit will make fun of his voice. I do it, all the time, because it’s god damn ridiculous. I highly recommend the auralnauts on Youtube, because they fucking kill with their Bane impersonations.

    Also, who says Ultron wasn’t a terrible villain? The best part of that fucking angle, are Vision and Aida. That’s it. You also, are shitting on Daniel fucking Bruhl, and they could easily remember him as, “That guy from Inglorious Bastards.” Also, no one fucking remembers Batman Returns, because it’s fucking awful. That’s the difference between YOU and the REST OF MOVIE GOING AMERICA: NO ONE BUT YOU, GIVES A SHIT ABOUT BATMAN RETURNS! There is only one Catwoman now, and her name is fucking Anne Hathaway. Hell. They’d probably remember Halle Berry before Michelle fucking Pfiffer, because NO ONE BESIDES US OLDER FUCKS, REMEMBER GOD DAMN MICHELLE PFIFFER!

    If Star Wars were some mid-level horror franchise. I am sure you would know, EXACTLY, what’s going on with these movies right now. Conjuring 4? SURE! The second biggest franchise on earth? WHA’S HAPPENIN?

  24. Stella's Boy says:

    But I am saying there is a middle ground. I know plenty of people who love some Marvel movies, like others, and also find some forgettable and not very good. What’s wrong with that? Why does that bother you so much? All of us are passionate about movies. That’s why we’re here. Most of my friends are just as passionate. But I don’t know anyone else who takes a series of films so personally. I don’t care that you like horror a lot less than I do. I don’t think anything is passing you by. But if I like most horror movies more than any MCU I’ve seen, you get upset.

  25. The General says:

    Stella’s Boy to answer your question there is zero need to have seen Force Awakens to watch Rogue One. Technically you don’t have to have seen any Star Wars, but it will be 10000X more enjoyable if you have at least seen Episode IV: A New Hope.

    I have no doubt these characters will reappear somewhere (not the least of which in books, comics, etc.) But several of them are easy fits in the anthology movies (if Lucasfilm wants ). I mean Cassian is a rebel spy, he and K2 can pop up anywhere in that Bounty Hunter movie they’re planning. Jedi mythology stand alone movie? Chirrut is your familiar face (Baze too).

  26. Stella's Boy says:

    Thanks General. Good to know.

  27. Geoff says:

    Yes there is a middle ground – what is so heinous about enjoying the MCU for what it is?

    And I’m not slamming Daniel Bruehl – he was actually very good in that movie – but I’m just saying that film and its performances are not nearly as memorable…..and that’s by design because there are ZERO stakes and Disney wants to reassure the audience that everything will be A-OK so they can all appear together in Avengers 3.14.

    I mean you REALLY want to deny this at at this point?? Kevin Feige had a big Chinese Theater presentation with the stars of all of these movies about two years ago announcing this VERY THING and announcing the slate of movies for the next five years.

    It’s not really blasphemous to point out how there is a distinct formula at this point, the movies are starting to blend together, and they ARE becoming less memorable

    And hey Catwoman is bigger than any actress playing her or has played her….Anne Hathway was good but Michelle Pfeiffer was AWESOME! And if Pfeiffer hadn’t left such an impression then why did they cast a young actress who looks JUST LIKE her to play young Selina Kyle on Gotham more than 20 years later? Oh and you’re contradicting yourself now: Hathaway OWNS the role she played four years ago but NOBODY remembers anything about Bane from the same movie?? :)

    Here’s hoping that Megan Fox doesn’t get cast as her in Gotham City Skanks as rumored. 😉

  28. JS Partisan says:

    Geoff, for what it is… to you. If you think of it as having no stakes, as having a formula, then to you it’s not much. Obviously, because scoreboard don’t lie… it means a lot more to most of the moviegoing audience. Just look at the damn longevity of the thing, how it’s TV shows (who don’t even get to really connect to the fucking movies) break the fucking internet. It’s a cultural phenomenon, that you just love shitting over… constantly. You even shit on Rogue One, because Disney.

    Again, it’s fine to debate and discuss things, but I really try to not shit all over people’s taste. You, on the other hand, just love throwing around the poo poo! FLINGING IT LIKE A MAD MAN!

  29. Stella's Boy says:

    JS you frequently point to box office gross as evidence of Marvel movies being good. Is quantity always proof of quality? I recall people saying that if that were true Transformers would have won Best Picture in 2007 (or Spider-Man 3, but you get the point). Speaking of Spider-Man 3, it’s one of those movies that made a ton of money but seems to be hated by just about everyone who saw it. Generally speaking the MCU is well-liked and I am not arguing otherwise. As a horror lover I know what it’s like to have people shit all over your taste, so I am not trying to bash you for liking the MCU. I have friends who are first in line for every one of them. But sometimes it seems to me like you are accusing people who don’t like the MCU of being wrong (hence defending it by mentioning box office as if that’s proof of them being wrong).

  30. JS Partisan says:

    There is not right or wrong. There is just the shit the Mcu has been getting on this blog, since 2008.

  31. Geoff says:

    “Again, it’s fine to debate and discuss things, but I really try to not shit all over people’s taste. You, on the other hand, just love throwing around the poo poo! FLINGING IT LIKE A MAD MAN!”

    I think you’re conflating a lot of the shit that Dave himself has thrown at movies like Iron Man and The Avengers with this current discussion but if you want to look back into this history of this blog, I LOVED those movies too and even called out Dave for his bias against them.

    But that was in 2008 and 2012 and sorry man, I have not seen anything from the MCU that even approaches the balls-out entertainment value of those two films – not flinging shit, just observing.

    I went to ‘Winter Solider, ‘Guardians, and ‘Civil War opening weekend after hearing RAVES for weeks about them from some of my favorite YouTube critics (Jeremy Jahns, Chris Stuckmann)…..expecting and hoping for a grand time at the movies and sorry but I just didn’t get it – Winter Soldier is a strong action movie with some fantastic action sequences but after hearing for weeks about how it was the comic book genre rebirth of the “70’s political thriller” I just didn’t see that.

    I think a BIG part of the issue with the MCU formula is that it has been completely enabled by the excessive praise some of these films have been receiving – if critics and hard-core fans hadn’t been praising folks like the Russo Brothers as the second coming of John McTiernan, then would it be SO bad if Feige took a flyer on some one else? You might actually get better movies AND still maintain high box office…you CAN have both.

    We’re talking eight years and like 15 films at this point….if some one can’t spot a trend from that kind of sample size, then what’s the point? There’s a formula and yes, I (among others) am starting to find it a bit tired. I still hold up Iron Man as one of the best blockbusters of recent years and even better than The Dark Knight which came out that same summer to higher acclaim….but eight years later, seeing that Doctor Strange (still a fun movie) was basically just Iron Man-with-trippy-visuals then NOBODY could fault me for wanting a bit more.

    You can be a fan of something and expect MORE….otherwise you’re just another fanboy jizzing all over themselves over Rogue One because “OMG….they had AT-AT’s on the beach!!!” which I know you’re not. 😉

  32. Geoff says:

    Short version JS: don’t be such an easy lay, nothing wrong with making him work for it a bit more. 😉

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