MCN Columnists
David Poland

By David Poland poland@moviecitynews.com

Review-ish: The Avengers

It’s mighty… mediocre.

There isn’t anything BAD about the film. On the flip side, the only thing I took away as remotely memorable was Joss Whedon’s rendition of The Hulk.

Downey does his Iron schtick. Thor is a little looser, but still a bit of a stiff. Sam Jackson has never really been this uninteresting. Paltrow, in brief appearances, is better as the cat who has already eaten the canary. And the earth-bound Avengers, Captain America, Black Widow and Hawkeye are really stranded through much of the film, victims of bringing dull knives to a CG gun fight.

The opening sequence with Natasha Romanoff is meant to be edgy and dark and non-CG-surprising in a heavily CG movie, but we’ve seen this scene literally hundreds of times, 95% of the time shot better. Of course, the fantasy of it being Scarlett Johansson letting herself being smacked around before giving it back 10x harder… well, I guess that is a geek orgasm. (I prefer thinking it was just spilled Coke on the floor.)

But hey… it was fine. Whedon remains a much better writer than a director, though this film has endless passages of talking that seem to do nothing but fill the running time with the cheap content of actors talking on a set. And I have no idea what Marvel obsession there is with massive ships that fly over cities and have little value to the story until the countdown to a crash begins. But, whatever.

For me, the ONLY thing I feel any compulsion to see again in this film is Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner and, again, Whedon’s take on The Hulk… basically the take that this comic book loving kid felt was the most natural I’ve seen on film. Perhaps it was only a real option because The Hulk was not counted on to move the story, but I would happily pay to see Whedon’s Hulk movie with Ruffalo. The understanding of power and rage and intellect really, really works.

On the other hand, the adversaries in this film really, really suck. It’s petty motivation and not well defined and in the end, it’s another endless storm of faceless, characterless machines (or whatever the hell they were) wreaking havoc.

It was fun to recognize Powers Booth and Jenny Agutter in little roles. It was fun to see director Jerzy Skolimowski (here in a DP/30) hamming it up. It was amusing to see Cobie Smulders in Sue Richards’ uniform from Fantastic Four, her primary superpower seemingly the ability to stay incredibly skinny. And honestly, the great Harry Dean Stanton turning up was a little painful. He didn’t seem well.

All that said… it was okay. It’s probably the best of the Marvel-made Marvel movies, though I prefer Captain America up until the very end (which, after messing up that ending, is not really in this film as it is in CA, as I recall it) and I get why Iron Man is so beloved, even if I was turned off by some bad directing and the shocking lack of a character arc. But Whedon does deliver the Marvel Universe and it feels fresh enough.

Very much defining this movie is the Captain America character, who remains strong and focused in spite of mocking by Stark… Evans is really quite good in the role. But… so what? In the end, this is a movie about the mechanics. Cool suit, cool hammer, big green. Lots of stuff to break. I’d be interested in the Xavier/Magneto relationship of ideas between Stark and Rogers… but there is only time to glimpse it here. I’d be interested in S.H.I.E.L.D. as a player… but only a glimpse of it here. Johnasson is actually quite good in her role… but it is just not that much of a role.

The only thing that stuck, for me, was Hulk. And really, because it was the first time we’ve seen a CG Hulk that had a little joy to him. And Ruffalo is a great brooder, so getting into the levels of emotion around that character, with Whedon writing, could be a joy. Meanwhile, the pure pleasure of id displayed here is very quick to stick.

The one other action sequence that should have been great was not because the motivations made no sense…. when Iron Man and Thor go at it.

So I’m not calling out everyone giving it a pass. Some of the enthusiasm seems a little ratcheted up by all the hype and the Whedon lust (welcome to his first hit movie), but I’d have to go red on the Tomato rating too. It’s fine. It is what it appears to be.

I just wish it was actually a really good, memorable summer Movie Movie. And it’s not. It doesn’t suck, but it’s not One Of Those.

In the world of mega-movies, we have five more shots this summer. Battleship, Men in Black 3, Prometheus, Amazing Spidey, and TDKR. If 2 of them are great Movie Movies, I will be very, very happy.

189 Responses to “Review-ish: The Avengers”

  1. Big G says:

    This is the best of the Marvel movies? I take it that must mean David didn’t even like Spider-Man 2, widely viewed as one of the two or three best Superhero movies ever? That was a Marvel movie, right?

  2. hcat says:

    Loved Evans in a similair role of a focused hero in Sunshine, was the only person on the ship not to take their eye off the goal and the only one who seemed to place the importance of the mission above his own safety.

    Big G, David said Marvel made Marvel movies, which would be the two Iron Mans, the second Hulk, Thor and Cap. All the others are liscened out to other studios.

  3. Tuck Pendelton says:

    I have a sneaking feeling DP’s got the right pulse on this one. A fine movie, that everyone is giving extra applause for. It’s happened many times before. I absolutely thought Iron Man was enjoyable, but by no means the “genre masterpiece” many heralded it as.

    Of course, I’ll still be seeing it to get my own taste.

  4. JS Partisan says:

    Wow, David Downer strikes again. Shocking. Now post your rave Battleship review so we can all have our “CALLING A SPADE A SPADE” moment. SERIOUSLY, YOU EVEN REFERENCE BATTLESHIP AND THAT IS HAS A CHANCE OF BEING GREAT? Yeah, seriously, what the fuck.

    Oh yeah, seriously Tuck, David Poland is flatlined when it comes to this time of year. He doesn’t get worth reading again until Toronto. This is why you have him praising Hancock (PETER BERG FOR REALZ) over Iron Man and TDK and countless fun Summer things that happen every year with this man.

    The really fun part will be if Avengers becomes a BILLION DOLLAR MOVIE, outgrosses Spidey like crazy, and how he will react to it. His reactions to Inception in 09 are still top 10 all time in hilarious Hot Blog posts, so it will be interesting to see how he responds this weekend and forward.

  5. MarkVH says:

    I have no real dog in this fight (not that I’m not looking forward to the film), and God knows how I hate siding with JS about, well, anything, but yeah, I pretty much could have set my watch to this.

  6. JS Partisan says:

    Mark, you do know that I’m not Gilbert, right? That you probably agree with me and probably like some of the same things! Shocking, I know, but these things happen! Nevertheless, the Battleship review should be David’s finest hour. It’s Pete Berg, it’s Rhinanna, and it’s what the spoilers about that movie are. Go read them if you want because they are… HI… LAR… IOUS.

  7. Jerryishere says:

    Poland is right.
    It’s just… Okay.
    The middle section is just a lot of jabbering on a big floating ship.
    But there are moments of enjoyment sprinkled throughout.
    Ruffalo’s Hulk is indeed far and away the highlight.
    The transformers ending is less well realized than something Bay would do, but it has the advantage of quipping superheroes instead of robots.
    For me it was a wash.
    Not a disaster. But not a movie for the ages either.
    But folks will eat it up… Though I did hear some grumbling at my (industry, not reviewer) screening. Just a little. But some.

  8. chhristian says:

    So what if AVENGERS makes a billion, JS? Does that therefore make your dismissal of AVATAR an epic facepalm?

  9. Krillian says:

    “Tonight on Hannity: the anti-American Hollywood crowd has struck again, premiering their blockbuster The Avengers NOT on American soil first, but elsewhere. Joining me to comment on this is Dick Morris, author of the new book ‘TOES: How Liberals Are Sucking the Liberty Out of Us’ and acting legend Kirk Cameron. Let’s go with you first, Dick. Why does Hollywood hate America?”

  10. JS Partisan says:

    Christian, go watch Fight Club, and understand some of us are perplexed at how the world goes all Daniel Plainview on James Cameron material (even though you give me shit for something that no one agreed with David about, nor do you ever get that Forbes supported my statements about the BUMP). I don’t get it but we are discussing this YEAR Mr. Antagonism, and David stated Amazing Spidey would make more.

    An interlude right here to let you know Christian that THIS IS NOT THE HOT BLOG by JS PARTISAN! This is THE HOT BLOG by DAVID POLAND. Why you or anyone else acts if I am to be held accountable as if I were David, is a constant bit of hilarity from you folks. You will not get a Battleship review out of me, no matter how hard you try, but I am sure David will let you know in 2500 words how Pete Berg is the SO MUCH FOR REALZ better than Michael Bay. Which will lead to us giving him shit for it. When you are the top man, the made man, and the guy running things, you are to be held accountable and not HIS POSTERS! Unless his posters shit on the blog but more on that in a bit :D!

    Once again, he had his shining moment with Avatar (and who likes Avatar over Fight Club? How fucking tacky) and after that, well, not much more, but you keep on trying to start a fight. Your buddy Gilbert might be a lot of things but he’s not a shit-stirrer but he does take a shit on the blog, but that’s a HORSE OF A DIFFERENT COLOR!

  11. chhristian says:

    Its also a comment site which opens you up to your own claims – Todd Phillips take on DP says it all.

    Again, you can’t claim AVATARs success as some bizarro accident while you’re always trumpeting the billions from some film you love as proof audiences know best.

    Id take AVATAR anyday over that whiny white plight paen FC. I hope I have another choice though.

  12. David Poland says:

    Am I wrong in remembering that you, JSP/IO, raved Hancock after trying to kick my rhetorical ass about it before you saw it? Maybe it was someone else.

    As is often the case when you go on one of your factually false historical rants about me, I can’t help but think you are doing a comedy routine. You’ve been reading me for nearly 5 years. You can’t really remember what I’ve written so completely inaccurately. It has to be schtick.

    Your ENTIRE claim about me not having a strong sense of what will happen at the box office is based on two movies in 15 years… Dark Knight and Inception. And in both cases, you were much more wildly over the ultimate numbers than I was under.

    Finally… I don’t really give a damn what you think of my opinions. I offer my personal opinion. I offer perspective. You are always free to disagree. But you, like many, would rather attack me that have a real dialogue of disagreement.

    I still believe Amazing Spider-Man will make more worldwide. But given the advantage of the opening day slot, it could go the other way. Possible. We’ll see.

    And Forbes is an utter joke when it comes to box office and this industry. Stone cold morons. You are smarter than them… and you still refuse simple math on Avatar and anything else you don’t like. Zzzzzzz

  13. bulldog68 says:

    The rule is: When you like a movie and it goes gangbusters at the box office, its affirmation that you’re tapped in to the moviegoing zeitgest and you know what’s best. When you dislike a movie and it does gangbusters at the boxoffice, the general public are lapdog fools who will slurp up any drivel that the director has to offer.

    Dems the rules folks.

  14. David Poland says:

    That Todd interview remains one of the funniest documents of Hollywood myopia ever. Funny. And meaningless.

  15. David Poland says:

    Are you talking to me, bulldog?

    Don’t think you can be or you really don’t get me.

    I don’t see the audience as anything but people who make choices. The only people whose behavior I ever question on this issue is the media.

    I respect the choices that audiences make… which have NOTHING to do with how I feel about the content.

    And will The Avengers do 50% more than any other Marvel-made Marvel film? Maybe. Seems like a reach. I guess if The Avengers opens to $180m+, it can. But we have seen, year after year, that the rest of the world is more sequel/franchise-friendly than we are. They are a little past the 1/2 mark on Iron Man 2’s international number after 1 weekend.

    Alice in Wonderland making $1b didn’t make it a good movie. But people don’t tend to get worked up about that. Not geeky enough.

    Dare I note AGAIN that 2012 grossed $55m less worldwide than Inception? GET IT?!?!

  16. anghus says:

    It’s a solid 3 Star Movie. I can’t say i disagree with your assesment.

    Lots of Spoilers ahead. Be warned…

    It’s really cool seeing all your favorite superheroes on screen at the same time. Ruffalo is great. I thought Chris Evans’ Captain America was equally fantastic.

    The only “hell yes” moment for me in the entire movie is when Banner says “That’s my secret Captain… I’m always angry”.

    There’s a lot of funny little moments, but it feels oddly anti-climatic. Loki is a great villain, his army is really boring. Thor has so little to do. He’s boring and overly noble. He has a half second of a grin on his face while fighting the Hulk. I wish he had a few more of those moments.

    Third act was epic and huge and entertaining. First two acts were so generally useless to me. Other than a couple of fight scenes and Ruffalo i could see myself pressing the imaginary remote control and skip to the moment where the portal opens up over Stark Tower.

    Liked it. Didn’t love it. I get why people will be excited. It is kind of cool to have a movie with Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, and Hulk on screen. I would have loved something a little more coherent and with villains who felt threatening. For all the wanton destruction there seemed like a lot of high fiving going on. With half of Manhattan being leveled, i’d think you’d end up with a more somber moment or two before everyone declaring “We’ve won”.

  17. JS Partisan says:

    Christian, you haven’t seen Fight Club, so you don’t know what it’s about. That’s the point: one movie is about something unique and interesting, while the other is Dances with Wolves featuring BLUE TECHNO KATZ! Again, that’s your taste, this is my taste, but did you not read what I wrote about Daniel Plainview up there? I don’t get the love for Cameron, never will, and thus will always under-estimate any movie he ever makes til the end of time even though moviegoers will prove me wrong by going in droves. The Asteroid mining though, that’s probably going to work!

    David, only someone of an overly inflated importance would think anyone would do a comedy routine about their writing and reviewing. No, sorry, I AM NOT GILBERT (I also have a life. I have stuff going on. I do enjoy this blog and even some of your post from time to time, but that doesn’t mean I keep a chart of every fucked up statement you’ve made. My name is not Don Murphy after all). You folks confuse me and Lex when Lex and I are a million miles apart in just about everything. You failing to get that, when I am busting on you from time to time but no more than anyone else, is why you are so filled with HUBRIS!

    Seriously though, I enjoy Hancock (love Alice in Wonderland and would get worked up over it, but Disney owes Cameron some points on that film because Avatar getting people all 3D CRAZY helped it a ton), but it’s not even in the top 20 of Superhero films. It’s love story is pretty nice but you put it up against a film that should have won an Oscar and a film that started the Avengers. Sorry, don’t see it, don’t believe it, and don’t accept it.

    Oh yeah, you know what you get from that 55 million between 2012 and Inception? A BETTER FUCKING MOVIE SO WHAT’S YOUR FUCKING POINT :P!

    Seriously Ang, if David wrote like you did above. He’d be a lot easier to stand. Also BD, trying to figure out what will make bank is more than that, it’s just an interesting to game to see if you or me or anyone else we know, can figure out what will really take off.

  18. martin s says:

    JS – I get your beef, when Dave is talking numbers.

    He’s not in this review.

    You veered into a separate subject as a way to discount Poland’s opinion.

    By your current reasoning, the more financially successful a movie is, the better the film. Yet, you’ve been bowing at the alter of Fight Club for a few threads now, and that movie tanked.

    As for Avengers, I’ve held back on saying much because I know I have an allergic reaction to all things Whedon. But the farther away we get from Premiere night, the more reality seems to be kicking in; a massive third act offsets the standard Whedon filmmaking of the first two. Whoever made the call to juice up the third, which happened during production, saved the day.

    I do think Dave would have been right about Spidey performing better, but the A&M for Avengers has been unparalleled in Marvel’s history. The odds of Spidey matching that, while duking it out with TDKR for attention, is not possible.

    …and it’s beyond a safe bet that TDKR will be the best of the three.

    Note: Spidey and Spidey 2 were in the realm of Avengers A&M, but the Disney licensing machine makes it feel even more ubiquitous.

  19. I saw the movie yesterday in Venezuela and it really worked. I must confess I wasn’t interested after seeing the first trailer. And then a friend said that it was the Raiders of the Lost Ark for a new generation and I was offended by the remark. But I think it’s a truly good film, not just an OK movie. And the audience (mostly 9 year olds) cheered. Probably for them The Avengers was a enjoyable experience.

  20. Sarina says:

    How can Black Widow not be much of a role, when her screentime is bigger than the Hulk, Thor and Hawkeye? If anyone was underused, it was Jeremy Renner’s Hawkeye, who isn’t given much to do in the film.

    I thought Scarlett Johansson was good, but it may be due to the fact that the last time I saw her as Black Widow, she was mediocre, whereas here, she gets to play less of a mystery flirt and more of a strong and complex character.

    The Hulk is the star of the film. Mark Ruffalo was perfect, but the film suffered from being too overlong (did we need endless scenes of exposition?). It only began to be exciting in the 2nd half.

  21. chhristian says:

    If audiences cheer, the film deserves success. I miss those days.

    And if you had said “Hollywood myopia” to Philips, the interview would have been twice as classic.

  22. Chris C says:

    I agree with the review. The movie was very disappointing. The story line seemed to be copied from Transformers 3, the first half of the movie was slow and pointless. It had a few memorable moments, but the villain was weak, the ending anti-climactic, captain america’s suit was retarded, and overall, it didn’t leave me with a desire to see a sequel.

  23. JS Partisan says:

    Martin, I’d love to agree with you but you know, I am me, and I am not discounting David’s opinion. Sure, he went David Downer, but we all knew this is coming. My original post accepts his opinion but brings up David and Summer mixing like Root Beer and Bubblegum flavouring at Sonic.

    I’ve never stated David Poland is an idiot because he is not. I disagree with him as do a ton of people, but that doesn’t mean there is a discounting of his opinion on my part because it’s my opinion of his opinion and if you dislike my opinion, then you can ignore it :D!

    Nevertheless, this review-ish thing is Dave doing his catty contrarian take on the film. It’s his thing, that I do not particularly like, but that’s my opinion after all. I’m seeing the film tomorrow and will let spill afterwards.

  24. David Poland says:

    Once again, JSP, an indicator that engaging you is an utter waste of time.

    Or maybe I just need to write a book on how assholes argue on the web.

  25. bulldog68 says:

    No DP. I was not referring to you.

  26. bulldog68 says:

    Sorry that I wasn’t clear about that DP, but it was more speaking toward JS’s vitriol toward all things Bay and Cameron that succeeds and his willingness to completely right off there successes and say the audiences that showed up for said movies are basically brain dead farts who wouldn’t know a good movie if it hit them in the face, but when Dark Knight or now Avengers does well, (guaranteed most of the same audience that saw Avatar and Transformers 3), its because they are enlightened.

    Will we know prescribe the same adjectives to the “less discriminating” international audience that powered Pirates 4, Transformers 3, Avatar, Titanic 3D, Wraith of the Titans, John Carter etc to boffo numbers, and now Avengers? In other words, do they show up for any shit in 3D?

    Now before I am accused of calling Avengers shit, let me state that I haven’t seen it, and don’t expect it to be. But it’s JS’s scorched earth attitude that gets even the ones that sometimes agree with him to just shake their heads and just give up on the conversation.

  27. chhristian says:

    And he has not even seen it which counters his amazing previous claim that to opine on an unseen film is bullshit.

    Anyway, its a lovely day.

  28. anghus says:

    js, this isn’t a personal attack by any stretch, but more of a universal truth.

    why would anyone try to engage with JS on Avengers? Whoever said ‘scorched earth’ nailed it. He will love it with reckless abandon and tell anyone who doesn’t that they’re an old sell out contrarian cocksucker.

    Seriously people. Save your words. Unless your post starts with AVENGERS IS THE WORLD’S GREATEST MOVIE you are going to end up in a very endless and extremely pointless conversation with JS.

  29. ThriceDamned says:

    Well, I for one (and absolutely not the only one, judging by the loud cheers and clapping) absolutely LOVED it.

    I thought it was an amazing balancing act by Whedon how he managed to get everybody a kick-ass moment, totally earned and supported by team dynamics that made sense to me. It wasn’t perfect, but there were however so many perfect MOMENTS in it that totally got me that I was completely swept away.

    Not since Speed Racer has a movie TOTALLY made me feel like a kid again like The Avengers did on Friday night. Me and all my friends who went with me, all guys in their early thirties, went completely nuts for it and were just giddy afterwards.

    Oh, and David is right about the Hulk if nothing else. He absolutely OWNS this movie and has never been realized as well as here…worth the ticket price all by himself.

  30. JS Partisan says:

    David, you are the pot, the kettle, and the black all rolled into one. I can have a better conversation with you then anyone you’ve ever interviewed for those DP/30s. You keep on demeaning me and I will keep on firing right back at you. The fact that you think I am an asshole remains freaking hi… larious.

    Christian, you know Fight Club has nothing to do with white plight right? Oh you don’t? Unlike you, I’ve at least read enough reviews to get the gist of what’s going on in Avengers, I know who dies, I know how they die, and I know whose running things. Please explain to me why Tyler Durden is doing what he’s doing and turn your smugness down THREE… WHOLE… POINTS!

    Now onto Bully Ray!

  31. JS Partisan says:

    Anghus, do you even have the ability to read properly? Seriously, you wrote a meh review about this movie but did it in a non-dicky way. That’s how all meh reviews should be, but unfortunately things do not always work that way.

    David wrote a smug and catty review. It’s what he does when geeks like something and it’s bullshit. Don’t be smug and catty, and we will be cool. That’s the UNIVERSAL TRUTH ANGHUS. No wonder McWeeney literally stopped what he was doing once to call you an asshole.

    Now onto this from Bully Ray:

    “Sorry that I wasn’t clear about that DP, but it was more speaking toward JS’s vitriol toward all things Bay and Cameron that succeeds and his willingness to completely right off there successes and say the audiences that showed up for said movies are basically brain dead farts who wouldn’t know a good movie if it hit them in the face, but when Dark Knight or now Avengers does well, (guaranteed most of the same audience that saw Avatar and Transformers 3), its because they are enlightened.”

    Jesus fucking Christ man, that’s one ENTIRE FUCKING SENTENCE! Now I know you love using the search engine so please, point out where I’ve ever referred to people who like Avatar or Transformers 3 as brain dead farts?

    I will admit to not getting how anyone can praise Cameron from Titanic on. Nor does praising anything Bay has done on the producing side or directing side outside of Transformers make any sense to me. You know what else? MOST PEOPLE WOULD PROBABLY AGREE WITH ME AND THEY MIGHT REFER TO PEOPLE WHO LOVE THOSE FILMS AS BRAIN DEAD FARTS! Me, not so fucking much. I love Abyss and the Rock but please, let us not split hairs with your bullshit analysis of me.

    “Will we know prescribe the same adjectives to the ‘less discriminating’ international audience that powered Pirates 4, Transformers 3, Avatar, Titanic 3D, Wraith of the Titans, John Carter etc to boffo numbers, and now Avengers? In other words, do they show up for any shit in 3D?”

    They love 3D and James Cameron. Good on them but it’s probably the arrival of China on the scene, that really helps these international numbers. They really love spectacles and 3D, so our films are made for them.

    “Now before I am accused of calling Avengers shit, let me state that I haven’t seen it, and don’t expect it to be. But it’s JS’s scorched earth attitude that gets even the ones that sometimes agree with him to just shake their heads and just give up on the conversation.”

    Scorched earth is like a lot of posters here, who constantly try to hammer away at people. Only to make themselves look worse in the process. Several people do this on this blog and it’s been the continued pattern used to attack me or Gilbert for years. My strategy is to not take any shit from you people about anything that you constantly try to give me shit for on any given day. If that rubs you or anyone else the wrong way, so be it. Nevertheless, people see things differently but it doesn’t make them a brain dead fart. An asshole maybe, but not a brain dead fart.

  32. bulldog68 says:

    Like you always say JS, if you can’t respect the name, you don’t deserve a response. And is this your way of calling me a bully?

  33. JS Partisan says:

    No, BUT THIS MAN HERE!

    http://www.officialpsds.com/images/thumbs/TNAs-Bully-Ray-psd58775.png

    HERE! Somethings are just done for a reference, BD.

    That TDK-R trailer is freaking tremendous and seeing as it’s going to be opening in front of The Avengers. IT’S RELEVANT!

  34. bulldog68 says:

    However, something that JS said reminded me of something that I pondered on when Avatar was released. JS said that international audiences love Cameron, something I don’t entirely disagree with it, bit I’ve wondered whether Avatar would have been the #1 grosser of all time if Cameron had kept on directing and releasing movies during the 12 year span between his two movies, and what percentage of its gross was driven by the fact that this was his first movie in 12 years?

  35. JS Partisan says:

    BD, it could be the 12 years, but Titanic 3D demonstrates how much China loves Cameron and 3D. The dude is basically making the big melodramatic spectacles they have been making themselves for years, so he plays to their wheelhouse. The spectacle probably works elsewhere as well but China seems to be a good touchstone for Cameron’s international prowess via Avatar and Titanic 3D.

    Why Avengers is playing big internationally, is thanks to those 5 films laying the groundwork. It’s a sound strategy that I doubt Warners would want to replicate but if Marvel gets their billion dollar film out of it. I hope Warners re-considerate it.

  36. christian says:

    JS, I interviewed Jim Uhls for a magazine profile long before you saw the film. A totally faithful script to the book, which I hated. So why would I love the film? I get why people do and it’s to Fincher’s credit.

    But AVATAR is about imperialism and transcendence with far more technical than even Fincher. But the script ain’t the strong point.

    But the WHOLE PLANET loved AVATAR and you didn’t. Who’s wrong based on your own arguments here?

    Weeeeee…..

  37. christian says:

    And Krillian, that’s so odd you bring up faux-FOX outrage over the overseas premieres first – I was literally thinking the same thing as a sign of some kind of new era of global greed or synergy. Irony!

  38. JS Partisan says:

    Christian, that’s not my argument about Avatar, and it never has been. If you use the google though, you would easily find how much the planet disagrees with you.

    Now why would you love Fight Club? It’s not like the book. How do I know. Beaches, swing dick, and so on and so forth. It also has a great script and deals with transcendence as well. It’s also not a blatant rip off of Dances with Wolves but you know, splitting hairs.

    Oh yeah, TDK-R trailer again, FUCKING INSANELY AWESOME.

  39. Don Murphy says:

    JS – no you are not me- you are far too patient with this blundering commentator full of sturm and drang signifying nothing. You don’t make real movies which since 2011 now have clauses in them making sure no money is spent on MCN nor any access given to Kingo Poland. You see I committed the biggest sin of all- knowing more than Kingo and thus daring to correct his Heinous. When he posted the blistering attack on me six months ago I expected his industry wide fan base to ask me what was up. I received a total of one comment and the person was on my side, whatever the hell that is. So go JS, give as good as you can, at the end of the day rest assured, Mr. David Poland’s life remains empty, his friends imagined, and DoublePenetration/30 (the majority of which receive under 50 views) a laughing stock.

    This is also the guy, JS, when informed of my wife’s severe illness, resorted to mockery.

    I don’t know if you will even see this, I was blocked the last time I tried to post (it’s how he handles the truth) which was months ago and still might be.

  40. SamLowry says:

    The whole planet loved taking a 3D ride. Take the 3D away and your ride has four flat tires and a blown engine.

    And though it’s nice to see compliments piled on this third movie version of the Hulk, my view is still tainted by early shots of Ruffalo looking more like a steelworker than a 98-pound weakling. Banner’s supposed to be the “Before” picture in the Charles Atlas ad, an impotent wuss who seethes with rage because everyone and their dog is stepping on him. But if he looks like he can actually take someone in a fair fight then his desire to “Hulk out” would disappear.

    And Fight Club is a tremendous motivator for the 99%. If the banks and credit card companies continue to screw with us, we can always fantasize about blowing their headquarters’ up…in a completely fictional and not at all real manner, of course. Though there is the issue of finding and taking out their data backup centers, too….

  41. JS Partisan says:

    Sam, seriously, your turning a phrase ability kicks all sorts of ass.

  42. Krillian says:

    Haven’t seen it yet, but part of me wished that if they thought Ed Norton was too disagreeable to work with, they would’ve given Bruce back to Eric Bana.

  43. meatmog says:

    I have seen this film twice now. I consider myself an fan of the genre with discerning taste. I think this is a great movie period. It will take more than 200m opening weekend. It will also benefit from repeat viewings. There are more than mere rumours that the final american release will feature some extra footage too to appease it’s later distribution. Thankfully the perennial obsession with US box office is diminishing in it’s place has come a more educated appreciation of the global market. This will be a 1bill+ movie it may achieve this with less than 25% of it’s revenue coming from the states and canada

    Whilst by no means perfect this movie captures something that is needed right now in our society a sense of fun and adventure…. The few negative reviews I have read have a common thread: dismissive of the genre and the sheer scale.

    I can understand this. A film of this nature swallows up the media and it’s competition forcing critics to view it who would not ordinarily have an inclination for such films. This reluctance to accept/participate often leads to poorer reviews which are often commentaries on the budget and scale of the marketing machine behind them. It then sparks an indie ‘anti establishment trend’ This is a minority view, rightfully so in this case.

    Whedon has a 3hour long version. I dare say that for the fans this will unlock further revisits to this film in the future

  44. cadavra says:

    To anyone under 30: Seriously, after the umpteenth time you’ve seen buildings collapse, fireballs flipping cars end over end, freeways break apart, giant cracks in the ground open up and humongous explosions caused by giant robots/aliens/monsters/whatever, don’t you start to get the LEAST bit bored?

  45. chhristian says:

    FIGHT CLUB is exactly like the novel with the exception of the books more abstract ending – and since the films narration is taken from the book which you clearly never read, uh…what was I saying….and it appeals to folks like lexg, who has nothing but disdain for occupy wall street.

  46. meatmog says:

    @cadavra Nope not bored and I am over 30 and probably true for the majority of my demographic too.Besides it is what the comics are all about

    I guess you are another one for the ‘don’t get’ it column, which is fine by the way

  47. christian says:

    And in the end, i don’t care what the frame rate is of a film unless it’s got a STORY. Does anybody say, “48FPS will make you care about the characters and the intricacies of the screenplay!”

  48. Jossy says:

    I am a bit surprised about this review, but then I found out Mr Poland actually laughed during Hangover II. So I guess he is into the low and does not understand the high brow!

  49. Foamy Squirrel says:

    “Haven’t seen it yet, but part of me wished that if they thought Ed Norton was too disagreeable to work with, they would’ve given Bruce back to Eric Bana.”

    I sat in on an interview with Bana a couple of weeks ago and he seemed to have no real desire to go back to “blockbuster” movies. He was far more interested in doing smaller movies with his mates about his Holden car.

    EDIT – Are we getting RT viewers again? Is this going to be a repeat of Hunger Games with hit-n-run ad hominems?

  50. Joe says:

    I have been coming here for years and have always loved what LexG contributed (even the meltdowns) but JS/IO has been an irritating asshole for as long as I can remember.

    Have your opinion and let others have theirs, dick.

  51. JS Partisan says:

    Joe cry me a fucking river because this is how that reads; “I LOVE THE UNDERAGE COOZE DISCUSSION, THE SELF DESTRUCTIVE DRUNKEN RANTS, AND SUICIDE THREATS BUT HOW DARE SOMEONE HAVE STRONG OPINIONS, WHAT A DICK!” Seriously, that fucking response from anyone is such bullshit on their part, that Biff Tannen could drive a car into it.

    Why you share that opinion on this blog, where the man is banned in perpetuity and strongly hated is beyond me, but your love for Lex is why you should head over to HOLLYWOOD ELSEHWERE. It’s like this place, with some of the same posters, but with a shittier lay out. Also, Jeff Wells who bought your man Lex a steak. They also share your love for that man to such an extent, that they will even have 70 plus comments about him there! THEY EVEN HAVE PEOPLE OFFERING HIM JOBS! IT’S MADE FOR YOU, MAN!

    Christian, guess what? BZZT! YOU’RE WRONG! “Whilst on a nude beach, the Narrator meets Tyler Durden, a charismatic extremist of mysterious means.” The book and the movie are two different things and it is very much pro the 99 percent. You can think you know what the movie is and think using Lex as a reason to hate it makes sense, but you damn will know you would not let anyone else get away with such an argument on this blog or probably in real life.

  52. Steve Lamacq says:

    Well i thought this was HUGE fun. An absolute blast. Fun, funny, exciting, giddy but most of all, a ride. The action scenes are all great and perfectly balanced with the talky scenes. The dialogue in these scenes is as much fun as the action. Lots of laughs with a couple of BIG laughs that had the whole sold-out theatre roaring. Claps and whoops at the end proved that i wasn’t alone. You can argue with a critics opinion but when a huge audience spontaneously cheers once the credits roll, something has gone right!

    Sure, a lot of the thrill is seeing these characters together at last and that novelty may wear off on subsequent views but feeling is there is enough here to make it a keeper. I for one would love to catch it again.

    For the record, i am VERY anti-3D and have a so-so opinion on IMAX. I saw Avengers in IMAX 3D and it was EPIC :)

  53. martin s says:

    Oh, sweet christ – who are the sub-humans?

    Meatmog – Your answer to people being dismissive of Avengers, was to be dismissive of them. Congratulations. You’re a vapid ass.

    Steve – I hope you’re getting paid well. Or you’re 10. Or a program.

    …if this “insightful commentary” is from people following Twitter or RT links, JS is going to become the bellwether of objectivity.

  54. Paul D/Stella says:

    I’ve been dreading The Avengers opening week for a long time. Certain individuals above have confirmed my fears. The Fanboys have taken over. Sigh. Bring on Prometheus.

  55. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Martin – Meatmog’s post comes off a little condescending (“This is a minority view, rightfully so in this case”), but not worthy of being called “a vapid ass”. And there’s nothing wrong with Steve’s post apart from being light on commentary on the film itself.

    If anything, “Jossy” is the only “sub-human” so far. Lighten up a little.

  56. pisher says:

    I don’t see why all the Whedon Worshippers are hating on Mr. Poland. Rotten Tomatoes says this review is ‘fresh’.

    The movie sounds a bit stale. 😉

  57. Krillian says:

    Well, I hope it’s good and my teens can’t WAIT to see Avengers. I’m more geeked for Dark Knight Rises and Prometheus, but I like Whedon, and for me Capt. America > Iron Man 1 > Thor > Hulk > Iron Man 2.

  58. JS Partisan says:

    Why would you fear a movie opening? Good lord is that a weird statement from such a normal human being. Prometheus looks awesome as well. You folks act as if it’s impossible to do two things at once. You at least didn’t bring up the possibility of Battleship being great, so that’s a positive.

    I do find it funny that a horror fanboy is crying about other people’s enjoyment. If this were a horror all-star movie. Your excitement would be visible from space!

    Again keep making the sub-divisions and RUSH WILL KEEP TEARING THEM DOWN WITH THE POWER OF CANADIAN ROCK!

  59. anghus says:

    the fanboys really haven’t taken over. they just yell the loudest. The Avengers will be huge, but it will be huge not just because of the fanboys. it will be huge because Marvel has spent the last few years building goodwill and have created an army of action figure carrying kids who are punped to see this movie.

    The strategy itself is unique and interesting. The fanboys will show up regardless. You could have Avengers starring Anthony Sabato Jr as Iron Man and Zac Efron as Captain America and there’d be a line of fanboys a half mile long. The fanboys are just happy the movie exists.

    With two Iron Mans, Thor and Captain America, they were able to give these characters respectable adaptations which proved to mainstream film audiences that these flashier super hero movies didn’t have to be garish spectacles that lacked a broader appeal.

    So with eight years plus (Spiderman had a lot to do with legitimizing marvel characters at the cineplex) of good solid, decent adaptations, you get the Avengers which is basically the cinematically equivalent of a money shot.

    You had Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America as your sweaty, grunting build up. The Avengers is all about release and climax. This is the payoff, audiences being sprayed with two hours of white hot pathos.

    Expect a lot of people to be super excited by the 2 hour orgasm they paid $50.00+ to see (combining the ticket prices for Thor, Cap, Two Iron Mans, Hulk, and Avengers). Of course people are going to be excited for the happy finish.

  60. Paul D/Stella says:

    I don’t know Foamy. He played the “you don’t get it” card. That’s about as condescending as it gets.

  61. Foamy Squirrel says:

    [Irony]

    Oh man, you haven’t BEGUN to see condescending…

    [/Irony]

  62. Paul D/Stella says:

    Ha. As someone who has been on the receiving end of the “you don’t get it” claim here, I’m a little touchy about that one.

  63. pisher says:

    The dread is for the way certain online fans will react to any criticism of The Avengers as Art Crime, even though the film wasn’t created as art, but as commerce. It’s there to sell toys. Future generations of fangeeks will not bow down before it in awestruck wonder. They will sneer at its hopelessly outdated CGI, its cheesy costumes and its even cheesier dialogue. And nobody else will care.

    I think the studio got their money’s worth from Whedon, who was given a job many directors wouldn’t touch–they found their Michael Bay of the longjohns set. And Whedon found a use for his inner comics nerd. And will reign in majestic spendor at ComicCon for years to come. And be utterly forgotten by posterity. But he’s rich, so who cares? :)

  64. Krillian says:

    1. He’s rich.
    2. He can do whatever he wants the next few years.
    3. He’s doing what he loves.
    4. Millions love him for it.

    Good for him.

  65. JS Partisan says:

    You don’t fuck with Whedon. It’s one of the rules of the internet established way back in 1998! Also, sorry Paul, I thought you were referring to me because I did not see meatmog’s statement. My bad and much apologies, but it is still a bit off to be freaked out about a movie opening.

  66. hcat says:

    Is there even possibly anything “not to get” from the Avengers?. I’m always confused by that arguement when it comes to massive matinee blockbusters. Like there is some symbolism or nuance that detracters are missing from this thing?

    I can easily tell from the box office successes of these things that I am not in the majority but Superhero fatigue hit me a few years ago. Back at the beginning of the century no one was more geeked out about finally getting an X-men movie than I was and for all of its flaws I was excited about each new annoucement of a new Marvel hero making it to the screen. But after nearly all of them were ho-hum (first and third Spiderman, Iron Mans, first Hulk) or outright crash and burns (Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Ghost Rider, second Hulk) I have just come to dread the inevitable sequels, reboots and origin stories.

  67. JS Partisan says:

    HC, that’s an interesting take on the fatigue, but most of those movies can be seen as a wash. Sure you have Spidey 2 in there but 2008 changed everything, and that you got burnt out before hand sort of sucks. You are fine with it and all, but it still sucks from a “comic book movies are better than ever” perspective.

    Also, there is always symbolism and nuanced moments that can be missed in any movie, but in particular these movies have a lot of them. Almost every action these characters take has decades of backstory behind it. There’s always more going on and you can miss it. Stating that everyone infers everything the same way as if we all get it, is to ignore that you can miss stuff, and thus not get it. Even I have not gotten a movie that I later get. It happens.

  68. LYT says:

    “To anyone under 30: Seriously, after the umpteenth time you’ve seen buildings collapse, fireballs flipping cars end over end, freeways break apart, giant cracks in the ground open up and humongous explosions caused by giant robots/aliens/monsters/whatever, don’t you start to get the LEAST bit bored?”

    To anyone over 40: Seriously, after the umpteenth time you’ve seen relationships collapse, upset people flipping tables end over end, couples break apart, giant cracks in the protagonist’s worldview open up and emotional explosions caused by repressed trauma/incompatibility/funny quirks/parenthood/whatever, don’t you start to get the LEAST bit bored?

    In other words – every genre and subgenre has its hallmarks that people who go to such movies like. Don’t pretend yours also don’t.

  69. hcat says:

    I am willing to give all sorts of props to X2, First Class, Spidey2 and Nolan’s Batmans. But with the Avengers after watching the five prelims over the years I am less excited about this film than if they had just put it all together without the buildup. To me instead of a must-see this feels like a have-seen. Unlike Dark Knight a few years ago I don’t see any real suprises that they might take with the narrative or action.

    And this fatigue is not reserved only for comic book films, Battleship looks like it suffers from ID4 syndrome, where you could take scenes from blockbusters from the last twenty years and remake the film in its entirety.

  70. anghus says:

    Drew said something a few years back when writing about POTC At Worlds End about how the special FX are so amazing that Hollywood can make anything a reality now. And hes right. What cant they do?

    The problem is now that the awesome epic events begin to lose their punch. You cant watch the third act of Avengers without thinking about Transformers 3. Or the last ten minutes of Cloverfield. There are only so many ways to destroy a major city. While its technically impressive its lost the wow factor.

    Ultimately audiences wont care because its Iron Man and The Hulk in the middle of a cratered metropolis or Optimis Prime. Eventually the major metropolitan battleground will wear out its welcome. Just like the action sequences staged at shipping ports which has become the lazy location for fight scenes over the last decade.

  71. JS Partisan says:

    Oh yeah just to demonstrate how I roll: Cad and Lou, I can like both of those things. Why? ECLECTIC, YO!

    That aside, Anghus, you know comics. You know what the NYC means to Marvel and that means that the big urban battle isn’t going to go anywhere in terms of these movies. That reason being the NYC, in most of the recent 616 events outside of AVX, take place in the NYC.

    You also stating that ultimately people won’t care that the Avengers are in the middle of it. Ignores that, hey, the reason why people are seeing and will see this movie is because THE AVENGERS ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. This isn’t poorly created CGI robots. These are men, Hulk, and a woman in the middle a big ass fight. It’s different but still very Marvel and why people will pay to see it.

  72. Tuck Pendelton says:

    Anghus: “the fanboys really haven’t taken over. they just yell the loudest.” Amen brother. Truth to power. That demo gets SO MUCH attention, but their dent in the box office is fairly small. I remember that ridiculous story four years ago that the Dark Knight would have a bad second weekend because the fanboys were at ComiCon and couldn’t see it. HA! Do some math AND some reporting.

    I love movies, all kinds. But two genres I’ve completely been oversaturated with in the last five years: Super heroes and zombies. Done. I’m Done.

    Whedon – Everyone remembers his good stuff, and makes excuses for the wretched. They tend to forget Storm’s line, “You know what happens to a frog when it gets struck by lightening?” which he wrote.

  73. Paul D/Stella says:

    When I said the fanboys have taken over, I meant here in this discussion. Even then I suppose your point about them just yelling the loudest is true. I was being a little hyperbolic.

  74. cadavra says:

    Luke: That’s an apples and oranges comparison. People yelling at each other can be done in literally hundreds of ways, to the limits of their native language. An explosion is just an explosion. I have nothing against AVENGERS–I will see it and in all likelihood enjoy it–but when you see consecutive trailers for it, PROMETHEUS, BATTLESHIP and GI JOE 2, you start to think it’s all one giant destruction fest. You guys can mock me all you want about DARK SHADOWS, but at least there will be nothing else like it in the marketplace for the next couple of months, perhaps all summer. And when foreign countries can still turn out superb and imaginative action films like LET THE BULLETS FLY, 13 ASSASSINS and the DISTRICT B-13 series, all on a fraction of the budgets here in America, there’s simply no excuse for such rote, cookie-cutter filmmaking.

  75. anghus says:

    Js, my point was it doesnt matter if the city destruction is generic because people will be thrilled to see iron man and hulk doing battle.

  76. JS Partisan says:

    Again, you are a fanboy for horror films, but other fans getting excited put you out (You ignore, I won’t use your name)? Also, how can anyone be put off by a genre? How does that work exactly? They’ve been making zombie films at a steady clip since Dawn came out in 78. Now, when things are getting interesting with Walking Dead (EMBRACE THE FARM HOUSE) and World War Z, you want to walk away?

    You also have a problem with superhero films, when they are at getting better with each one? You want to wash your hands of this genre then go back in time, to the 80s, when you had ample reason to do. Seriously, the Punisher movie alone was enough to make me wonder what the fuck Marvel were doing. Now, they know what they are doing, and it’s fuck them? Really? How bizarre (Oh my god, it’s a thought out point, and some random asshole, who enjoys watching a man share his love of underage starlets and suicidal drunk rants, will refer to be as a dick for daring questioning someone’s opinion. Oh my god, you guys).

    Now Cad, there are different levels of destruction. You are also stating that a Joss Whedon film is comparable to Battleship and GI JOE, and it’s not. You know why? IT’S JOSS. The man earned his fanbase and everything he touches, isn’t like anything else and that’s the problem with… PEOPLE… LIKE… YOU. You think they are all the same thing, when they are not. Each film is different and you painting it with a wide brush is pure and utter snobbery.

    ETA: Ang, sorry, the ultimately threw me off for some reason. My bad.

  77. pisher says:

    Whedon can do whatever he wants now? Really?

    Then let’s see him make a truly successful movie/series/comic book/whatever that isn’t heavily based on other people’s work.

  78. aj says:

    It is like Transformers 4.
    Then, 1 billion worldwide is assured.
    But it’s just a kid’s movie.
    Nothing to remember.

  79. storymark says:

    Cadavra – Sure, and explosion is just an explosion – it’s what happens around it that matters. Far more variety there than in the entire slasher sub-genre dating back 3 decades.

  80. storymark says:

    “Whedon can do whatever he wants now? Really?

    Then let’s see him make a truly successful movie/series/comic book/whatever that isn’t heavily based on other people’s work.”

    He makes one movie based on other’s work…. and you act like it’s all he’s done.

  81. Paul D/Stella says:

    Surely there are as many ways to kill someone as there are to blow something up.

  82. JS Partisan says:

    [Looks at his complete series of Angel and Buffy boxsets] Those are not based on his work? ORLY? Before you counter with; “They weren’t truly successful”, BZZT! Wrong. There’s a reason why FOX wanted to reboot Buffy and they wanted to reboot it because it makes them A LOT OF CASH.

  83. storymark says:

    I think it’s more accurate to say it used to make cash. Not seeing how it would bring in much these days, unless the did a reboot. Other than the comics (which it seems about half those who read them hate) there isn’t much Buffyverse happening right now.

  84. anghus says:

    Theres an extrem Whedon fan in my town. He opened a bar called the browncoat and has his walls tables and bar adorned with pages from whedon comics and screencaps of whedon shows.

  85. cadavra says:

    JS: I am not unmindful that Whedon is considered something of an auteur, and I acknowledged as such when I said I expected to like AVENGERS. And as Storymark correctly noted, it’s what’s around the explosions that truly matters. My point was that all these sequences look alike. It’s like the same second-unit director was working on every one of these films. In the old days, no one mistook a Ford film for a Hawks, a Siegel for a Fuller, a DeMille from a Fleming, or, more recently, a Woo from a Chan. And since that’s all that’s smacking us in the face in the trailers, it stands to reason that this is maybe the best they got. Bottom line: they’re not even TRYING to be distinctive from each other.

    And yes, the 80s slasher films were 100% alike (guy in a mask who doesn’t speak randomly kills anyone in his path, especially hot teens who’ve just had sex) and 100% unwatchable. That we’re still having this shit cluttering up our screens three decades on is even more depressing. As Bill Maher said of FINAL DESTINATION 5: “I don’t think you really understand the meaning of the word ‘final.'”

  86. storymark says:

    Where do you live, anghus?

    I would totally go to that bar. Shit, now I want to open one of my own.

  87. pisher says:

    Buffy wasn’t even the highest-rated show on the WB, and ended very very badly. Angel was in many ways the better show, but Whedon wasn’t the showrunner on that one. I will grant he was a much better showrunner than Marti Noxon, but who left Marti Noxon in charge of Buffy? Though even she couldn’t have come up with something as horrible as Dollhouse. No, Point Pleasant was better. Marginally. 😉

    And that’s television, where there are many creative minds–Whedon didn’t write all the episodes himself, he directed few of them, and maybe you should read the Sonja Blue novels of Nancy Collins before you assume all those ideas came from his brain. David Greenwalt, David Fury, Tim Minear–there was quite a collective working on the Mutant Enemy shows for a while there.

    And that’s a pretty old screen credit to be hauling out. This really IS Mr. Whedon’s first mainstream hit ever in a very long career, but even if you want to count a cult hit on a now-defunct minor network, that cult hit premiered over 15 years ago.

    The Robert Downey Iron Man was not created by Joss Whedon.

    The Chris Hemsworth Thor was not created by Joss Whedon.

    The Chris Evans Captain America was not created by Joss Whedon.

    The CGI Hulk in this movie was beta-tested in two previous films.

    When you get right down to it, NONE of these characters were created by anyone working on any of these films. They were created by a bunch of incredibly creative writers and artists, working for less money than your average mailman. And of them all, only Stan Lee got any real fame or fortune out of it, even though his contribution was often limited to punching up the dialogue–which now that I think on it, is how Mr. Whedon got his start. Life is not fair. Hollywood doesn’t even aspire to be fair.

    What’s your excuse? :)

  88. pisher says:

    “I am not unmindful that Whedon is considered something of an auteur”

    Me neither, and I believe that’s one of the signs of The Apocalypse. Or else that people have really low standards these days. :(

  89. David Poland says:

    Don… welcome back. Can’t say I’ve missed you… not because you tell the truth – you don’t seem to have much of a grasp of what the truth is – but because you are an obsessive, one-note bore.

    But I do want to speak to the one thing here that is remotely substantive.

    “This is also the guy, JS, when informed of my wife’s severe illness, resorted to mockery.”

    Don… what are you talking about? I assume this is the bug that you’ve had up your ass about me for the last couple of years that you refused to explain to me. And indeed, if you mocked my wife being severely ill, I would rage about you too.

    But I have to tell you… I have no clue what you are talking about. I vaguely remember hearing that your wife was ill and as I recall, it wasn’t fully diagnosed at the time. But I don’t remember mocking it… or for that matter, her… in any way.

    All I can think is that I said something about you that was somehow miscontextualized to be about her. But I have no idea what that would be. Or maybe there’s just some asshole out there trying to push your buttons, using me as the whipping boy.

    If you want to discuss this privately, I will answer that e-mail. If there is some context in which I could be construed to have mocked your wife’s illness, I would like to know what it is and if it’s true, I would surely apologize profusely.

    But I can’t imagine mocking anyone’s illness, much less someone’s family member. (Nikki Finke, who sometimes makes up illnesses to cover for other activities is… I don’t even know how to define that.) Illness trumps pretty much all and any bad behavior in my eyes and sympathetic support is the only real option.

    That doesn’t mean I didn’t say something that could be seen that way. But I have zero idea of what that could have been.

    One bad joke pops into my mind, but it’s 100% about you being such as asshole to me and 0% about Susan.

    And so it goes. You are still on “moderate.” You still have not had a single comment that was not published on this site, aside from spam bombing with dozens of the same comment.

    I am perfectly happy to have nothing to do with you.

    I’m just glad you finally, it seems, showed the guts to tell me what this insanity was all about.

  90. JS Partisan says:

    Pisher, that’s your opinion, and if you think Whedon sucks. Well, really, that’s just silly. Oh yeah, Whedon did craft the version of the characters in The Avengers because it’s his script.

    ETA: My initials show up in David’s post above and I want to clarify something: when have I ever goofed on someone’s seriously sick wife? Seriously, I’ve actually dealt with someone slowly decaying from cancer. There’s a line and that line is not crossed by me.

  91. David Poland says:

    Honestly, JSP… you are such an asshole at times that I really, really thought you had to be Wells back in the day.

    But it is kind of amusing to see you blow up your chest like a big man every time you think a movie I don’t love is going to be very successful commercially. It’s infantile, but it keeps things lively.

    As before, you will be yanked if you start the all CAPS routine without restraint. For better or worse, you remain a guest here and you are just one of many.

  92. David Poland says:

    I think Whedon is very talented.

    And the simple reality is, he has not succeeded in films at all until now. And it is the ensemble film of a series of franchises.

    As I have said before – disregard this if you just want to tell me how old I am – I consider this work to be near the top of the Marvel-Made films. Marvel has gotten better at this formula and Whedon is a step up.

    But aside from a 4-person co-writing credit on Toy Story, he hasn’t had any real success after six shots at it. He wrote two of the biggest studio-made animated bombs ever, Buffy flopped as a film, his Alien film was a car wreck for Fox, Serenity had a tiny audience, and Cabin in the Woods won’t hit $50m domestic.

    None of this makes him less talented. But he’s no slam dunk at the multiplex.

    Glad this will be a big hit. Good on him.

    Just 3 words of caution. Cowboys And Indians.

  93. JS Partisan says:

    David, again, being referred to an asshole by you is like Snakeeyes being given a sword by the Blind Master. Seriously, you’re hilarious, and where am I blowing out my chest? I take a stand, you take a stand, and that is how it works.

    You also fail to understand that I am not your buddy Gilbert. When you get that understanding, maybe you will be less… you, but you are the Blind Master after all.

    Oh yeah SM, Buffy and Angel are still properties that generate money for FOX. Comics is some of it but how many shows have had their complete series boxsets re-released?

    One last thing, Favreau is not Joss, and if Joss made Cowboys and Aliens. It would have been a better movie. Seriously, Marvel has found their Nolan and if this film does have HALF A BILLION in the bank by the end of the weekend. They need to pay him a lot of money.

  94. Hallick says:

    “Ultimately audiences wont care because its Iron Man and The Hulk in the middle of a cratered metropolis or Optimis Prime. Eventually the major metropolitan battleground will wear out its welcome. Just like the action sequences staged at shipping ports which has become the lazy location for fight scenes over the last decade.”

    Somebody can always do this stuff in a creative way that makes it feel fresh and energizing. Always. Martial arts movies have gone through this cycle lots of times. I disagree that an explosion is an explosion is an explosion. If you’re going to blow up a car, for example, you can blow up part of it, blow up all of it, make it feel more physical, make it feel more pyrotechnical, front flip it, side flip it, back flip it, knock it into something next to it, land it on a bystander, etc. HELL, with CGI you can make it twirl like a roman candle and knock a lamp post into a 2nd floor apartment window (or an oft used shipping port) if you wanted to.

  95. Hallick says:

    “Just 3 words of caution. Cowboys And Indians.”

    Yeah, seriously, that magazine just sits there rotting at me on the rack in my local Safeway – HEY WAITAMINUTE – you meant “Cowboys and Aliens” didn’t you!

  96. anghus says:

    storymark, i live in Wilmington, NC where they are currently prepping Iron Man 3.

    Nice little film town.

  97. David Poland says:

    Just 3 words of caution. Cowboys And Aliens.

  98. David Poland says:

    JSP… I’m pretty sure you have been following me longer than anyone else here… if not, you’re close. And you have certainly been sending me nasty comments longer than anyone.

    Like Gilbert/LexG – who has been around about half as long as you, who is under moderation, and has been treated much more harshly than anyone else here – when you behaved like an obsessive bore, you got yourself banned for a while. You have been, mostly, fine since you’ve been back, even when being assholic. I hope you aren’t feeling compelled to push that limit again. The blog happily survived without your uncontrolled vitriol and it will continue to do so if it happens again… just as it has survived the absence of LexG.

    I am not in a competition with you. If I was, I’d be visiting and trying to dominate your blog every day.

    Now you can go back to telling us how right you are about everything, no matter what the facts or how limited your actual knowledge. It’s like reading Family Circus over and over again.

  99. JS Partisan says:

    David, sending you nasty comments? If stating you are wrong about something or that you will love Battleship is nasty, then do I want to be kind :P? Seriously man, if you think it’s about being right (even though you really do love being right about everything and again… you are… the pot, the kettle, and the black), then you are missing the point. Some folks just like to debate and enjoy a good sparing match when it happens. You seem to think that I want to put you in your place, that’s hardly the case.

    You also stating Lord Voldermort been treated worse than I have, well that’s not true at all. Go read what Joe wrote. Have a strong opinion? FUCK YOU! Rant about K-Stew’s feet, go on about needing to get laid, and occasionally make a cognitive point about John Carpenter? GREATEST POSTER IN THE WORLD! The fact that you or anyone think that’s being passionate and loving this shit makes me an asshole, is why everyone who reads this blog is so damn quaint. You will also be welcomed to my blog whenever I feel like having one. I will probably ban you though because I am fucking ruthless :P!

    Nevertheless, Cowboys and Indians is a fabulous magazine, even though it should be referred to as Cowboys and The Natives, Who They Ran Off the Land.

  100. JS Partisan says:

    David, sending you nasty comments? If stating you are wrong about something or that you will love Battleship is nasty, then do I want to be kind 😀 ? Seriously man, if you think it’s about being right (even though you really do love being right about everything and again… you are… the pot, the kettle, and the black), then you are missing the point. Some folks just like to debate and enjoy a good sparing match when it happens. You seem to think that I want to put you in your place, that’s hardly the case.

    You also stating Theon Greyjoy has been treated worse than I have, well that’s not true at all. Go read what Joe wrote. Have a strong opinion? FUCK YOU! Rant about K-Stew’s feet, go on about needing to get laid, and occasionally make a cognitive point about John Carpenter? GREATEST POSTER IN THE WORLD! The fact that you or anyone think that’s being passionate and loving this shit makes me an asshole, is why everyone who reads this blog is so damn quaint. You will also be welcomed to my blog whenever I feel like having one. I will probably ban you though because I am fucking ruthless 😛 !

    Nevertheless, Cowboys and Indians is a fabulous magazine, even though it should be referred to as Cowboys and The Natives, Who They Ran Off the Land.

    ETA: Reposted without the offending name of the one who basically is from Pike. WHAT IS DEAD MAY NEVER DIE!

  101. David Poland says:

    JSP – Your ideas and passions don’t make you an asshole. Behaving like an asshole makes you an asshole.

  102. bulldog68 says:

    JS, I actually find it a bit strange that you seem to be dissing Favreau by saying if Whedon directed C&A that it would have been better when Favreau is responsible for the most successful Marvel movies outside of Spiderman.

    Swingers remains a cult classic. His box office failure Zathura to me is an under appreciated film, C&A is definitely a misstep in his career, and Elf was a huge hit. His film resume is certainly stronger than Whedon’s, who has Titan AE, Alien Resurrection, and Atlantis on his writing resume, all deemed to be disappointments themselves, and some critically so, not just at the box office.

    So don’t be so quick to throw Favreau under the bus. The success of Iron Man is one of the chief reasons why the Avengers movie exist, and the Iron Man character is the center piece, even though it seems to be a Thor centric story.

  103. JS Partisan says:

    David, yeah… no, because what seems to make me an asshole to you, is challenging you, and you responding the way you do to me makes me feel the same of you. It’s all subjective but let’s stop using the word asshole for a bit. It’s been used too much in this thread that’s about THE AVENGERS!

    BD, Whedon is better than Favreau. This does not change that Favreau has made some films I love and enjoy, but Whedon would have made them better. Hell, he’d definitely would not have kept Kristen Stewart frozen for an hour in Zathura, so that’s something!

    Whedon is tremendous and created three of my all time favorable properties and even his missteps are more interesting than most. He is ridiculously talented in ways you rarely get out there in the La La Land.

  104. Bennett says:

    My question from those who have seen it….”Is the 3D worth the expense?

    I still wish I could see it in IMAX without the 3D. Also, will the IMAX be a one week showing because of Dark Shadows coming out.

    Speaking of that anyone see Dark Shadows or the Dictator yet?

  105. Joe Leydon says:

    Hope we see a lot more of Agent Hill in Avengers 2.

  106. Joe Leydon says:

    And, hey, the post-credits sequence is hilarious, simply because… well, I don’t want to spoil it for anyone.

  107. Joe Leydon says:

    Oh, and Cowboys & Indians is a great magazine.

  108. Krillian says:

    How old is JS? Cuz I’ve been following Dave since RoughCut.

  109. Yancy Skancy says:

    Without doing any research, I’m going to guess that Whedon’s drafts of Titan AE, Alien Resurrection, and Atlantis were not the ones responsible for the lackluster reception of those films.

  110. JS Partisan says:

    Kril, I’ve been following him since rough cut as well. Apparently we are both old :D!

    Yancy, Joss also did a lot of script doctoring for a few years, so there could be bigger movies out there that he hasn’t talked about, that has a some Whedon in them. Yeah, that’s sort of dirty. Once you go down that road though, you’ve got to keep on driving down it.

  111. bulldog68 says:

    I was just comparing the tale of the tape between Favreau and Whedon YS. Whether he, or Favreau for that matter, were responsible for the reception is a whole other matter.

  112. christian says:

    “has been treated much more harshly than anyone else here ”

    Your personal Sarah Palin was the only to call regulars here “cunts” – otherwise, spot on.

  113. Don Murphy says:

    David
    You were written off by me a long ass time ago. My wife’s illness was diagnosed eight months ago. They aren’t the same things. No one is making up lies about you. To do that they would have to care much more about you.

    Yes I’m a bore I’m an asshole just like everyone else who says that the Kingo has no clothes. It’s boring man.

    Of course you know what you did when you mocked her. I gave you the news in passing and you said that I was self-pitying and that she got what she deserved being married to me. Fine that’s your level.

    Yes it’s your blog. You can play the arrogant incorrect know it all teacher. You have that right. But as long as you have comments, people will point out the emptiness of what you have to say.

  114. JS Partisan says:

    Otherwise spot on? Oy to the vey doesn’t even sum that response. THIS DOES! http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2bzbb0X2E1rqfhi2o1_400.gif

    BD, Whedon fans have to declare their props for him. http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m309mhkAmF1r1o3ew.gif

  115. cadavra says:

    In big cities with multiple IMAX houses, I imagine some will hold AVENGERS, even for one or two shows a day. And FWIW, AVENGERS is digital only, so the Real IMAXes will be playing SHADOWS for a second week until MIB3 opens.

  116. Joe Straatmann says:

    “How old is JS? Cuz I’ve been following Dave since RoughCut.”

    I remember goofing off and checking out the The Hot Button back in high school computer lab in the late 90s. Ah the days when you had to e-mail David Poland and if you were lucky, he’d post your e-mail at the end of his daily column. You think he’s a heartless dictator now……. I’M KIDDING.

  117. David Poland says:

    Don… I believe you believe this thing about this alleged conversation. But it makes no sense. Why would I tell you that you were “self-pitying?” I have never known you well enough to offer you an opinion like that.

    As for the “she had it coming, being married to you,” I can imagine making a joke like that to someone, but never in the context of someone actually being ill.

    I am trying hard to give you the benefit of the profound doubt here.

    Sounds to me like one of your twisted takes on reality in which we had some passing conversation about nothing and you’ve assigned it to some attack on your wife that never happened. By the way, I am very curious about when you think this conversation took place, given that we haven’t had a real conversation in years.

    I find it odd that if this is what you truly believe that you would keep going back to your take on my legitimacy as a journalist. These two things have nothing to do with each other. If I was the kind I person who would actually do what you claim, it wouldn’t matter if I was Walter Cronkite… I’d be a piece of shit.

    Thank you for at least admitting what has made you so angry. Even though it never happened as you believe it did, I prefer to know what’s made you so blindly rageful.

  118. brack says:

    Seems many of the well-known critics are digging The Avengers. Can’t believe it’s almost here for the rest of us. I always thought it’d be too expensive to make.

    I just don’t get the challenging of David’s opinions/reviews. Maybe he’ll have a spoiler-filled review that will be for real discussion once the film goes wide this week. But like a lot of his review-ish reviews, they’re more like thoughts plastered on the screen that I guess I’m not smart enough to understand. What’s a Movie Movie?

    I used to argue about movies, and then I finally got a life.

    People bringing up Rough Cut cracks me. Can’t believe I’ve been reading Poland for so long. Though I don’t find myself having the same tastes for certain films, he’s pretty spot on about assessing the landscape of the industry as best as anyone, and the best reason to visit his blog alongside DP 30s (if you have the time).

  119. Joe Leydon says:

    Funny: When my wife was diagnosed with cancer, my immediate response was,”Aw, c’mon, God! Doesn’t she have enough grief being married to me?” And then I foolishly added: “Besides, you’ve got it wrong. I’m the one who’s supposed to get cancer. She’s the one making a big enough salary to support our son.” Well, just to prove God has a sense of humor, I was diagnosed with cancer a few years later, too. (Yeah, I know that, when you’re married, it’s a good thing to share, but sheesh.) Fortunately, both us appear to have gotten over it. And now my son works at high-paying IT job when he’s not busy trying to establish himself as a professional poker player. And last night, I got to see The Avengers for free. Life is good.

  120. Paul D/Stella says:

    Nasty and awful thing, cancer. My father is also a survivor. So all the best to you and your wife Joe. May you both continue to be healthy and cancer-free. And all best to your wife Don.

  121. pisher says:

    You know, I know some Whedon fans in real life, and they are mainly great people, who don’t over-obsess about him, and just enjoy his work, and look forward to each new project, and that’s wonderful, and I’m sure a lot of them are like that.

    Those are presumably not the people sitting in the nearly empty auditorium I saw half of “Serenity” in (before walking out in disgust, because it’s a horrible movie), who were guffawing at every other line of dialogue, and whose body odor was overwhelming–even though I wasn’t sitting directly next to any of them.

    So let’s be mindful of the fact that there is an element of Mr. Whedon’s fanbase that is simply impossible for any sane civilized person to tolerate. And on the internet they overpraise everything he does to such an extent that it’s almost impossible to fairly assess the work, coming as it does with the burden of an imagined greatness that can scarcely be said to exist anywhere in this imperfect world of ours, but sure as hell not in the work of Joss Whedon. Which is clever, and often engaging, but in no way shape or form is it profound. Or original. It is, in essence, entirely an extended commentary on stories that have already been told repeatedly. He seems to tell every story in reaction to earlier stories. It’s a valid approach. I guess.

  122. martin s says:

    Marvel has found their Nolan and if this film does have HALF A BILLION in the bank by the end of the weekend. They need to pay him a lot of money.

    Holy F…

    IO, why do you do this to yourself? Seriously. I get that you don’t have 24/7 to digest every aspect of a film’s creation, but sweet jezus.

    You do know Fav’s was on set for Avengers, right? That he’s an Exec Prod? That if not for him, you could not guarantee RDJ?

    http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2011/08/19/new-avengers-set-photos-seem-to-confirm-films-major-menace/

    A lot of the Avengers groundwork happened under Favreau, during the first IM.

    Whedon wasn’t sought out as director. He was already working for Marvel, and was either asked to do a rewrite or pitched for the gig directly.

    Don said a number of directors turned this down. I tend to believe that because Marvel doesn’t offer the budget some directors would want. Whedon did get the job because he’s able to make character scenes lively. But, as I’ve pointed out a few times, the farther they got into shooting, the more was added to the third act. That was a decision Feige wouldn’t or couldn’t make earlier, but if he did, you would have had a different director.

    If Whedon’s not the director for the sequel, don’t be surprised. Feige is not going to let him become Nolan, where the company is tethered to his demands.

    Whedon said he wanted to do something smaller for a sequel. How in the hell does Thanos fit that? He doesn’t. So, we’re already at 50/50 Joss moves to a producer role.

    As for Alien Resurrection – that is all Joss. Scene-for-scene, word-for-word. He blames its failure on others because, you know, he’s too busy naming universes after himself.

    ADD:

    Pisher. I couldn’t have said it better. Clever has gone from meaning interesting to original to auteur. His work is all meta-insularity.

  123. Paul D/Stella says:

    The Avengers is only the second feature Whedon has directed right? Massive hit or not, seems kind of premature to declare him Nolan’s equal. As is the case with many diehard fans, there appears to be no way to rationally discuss him or his work. I’d have better results discussing the merits of Scooby Doo episodes with my 4 year-old.

  124. JS Partisan says:

    Yeah it has to do with storytelling prowess and on that level, Joss is easily equal to Nolan. He’s that good, even if Martin and some other person dislike him. Seeing as you are a human being that’s scared of a film being released. I’d watch out who you’d insult by calling them a child. Especially given some of the childish statements you’ve made about fanboys recently. Of course you think the kids still care about Scooby Doo. Which is cute. You could have made a Sid the Science Kid reference but you know, people are children who dare to give credit to a guy whose had more of an effect on storytelling over the last 15 years then you probably know.

    Martin S, seriously, you are on record from four years ago stating this film would never happen. It’s here in the annuls of this blog and you dare to give me some silliness about Favreau? Thanks for sharing RDJ’s sense of density about Favreau but come on man, this is Joss’ baby, and that’s how it’s being sold.

    You also doubting Joss will be the director for another Marvel film, ignores what happened with Favreau. Everyone thought he wouldn’t come back for IM2 and he did. If you think Feige will let go of a guy that’s possibly going to give them a billion dollar film, then I will take that bet Martin. I will take that bet.

    Seriously though, don’t aw jeez me about anything on this film, because you doubted it would even happen. Again, why do you do it to yourself, to post in something having to do with the Avengers :P?

  125. pisher says:

    When Joss Whedon does a movie like Inception that NOBODY has done before, and it’s a huge hit with critics AND audiences, then you can talk. Well, I mean you can talk without sounding like you’re trying to convince everybody of something you don’t really believe yourself. 😉

    Personally, I’d trade everything Whedon has ever done for half an hour of Memento.

    Originality isn’t everything, but in my experience, most truly great storytellers have their own stories to tell.

  126. anghus says:

    Is it ironic that Don writes so many posts in here about someone he claims to have written off?

  127. anghus says:

    Double post. Sorry.

  128. anghus says:

    Theres a quote the music producer Pharell gave about someone describing his style. And when they were able to define his sound in a sentence he decided he needed to completely redefine his approach to recording music.

    Whedon has a style and frankly as someone who has following Whedon since Buffy season 1 i can say that he would creatively benefit from switching it up.

    For a lot of people this will be the first exposure they have to Whedons trademark style, so mainstream audiences wont even notice. We geeks

  129. pisher says:

    anghus, I think most honest Whedon fans will be forced to admit that there is much less of his ‘trademark style’ in Avengers than in anything else he’s ever produced.

    It probably would have looked much the same if somebody else had directed it from his script, and if somebody else had written the script, it probably would have done about as well. After all, what we’re seeing now is people responding to the promotion–which includes all the previous films.

    It was in one sense a very challenging assignment, but in another sense, all the really hard work had already been done. These Avengers came PRE-assembled. 😉

  130. JS Partisan says:

    Pisher, in what world are you living where Angel and Buffy are not original stories? Dr. Horrible? Dollhouse? You keep going on as if Joss has never written an original story in his life and he has and unlike Nolan, he’s written probably a 100 hours of them. A 100 HOURS. If you want to dislike someone who has so much talent that he’s had an incredible effect on the stories that have come out over the last 15 years, then you go right ahead. It only makes your statements even more unfounded and quite ridiculous.

  131. storymark says:

    Pisher – dial it back, dude. The trolling is too obvious.

  132. movieman says:

    131 comments about an (admitted) non-review by an entertainment reporter, and the damn thing hasn’t even opened yet?
    Seriously, gang???
    I guess a lot of you care more than I do about–when all is said and
    done, for better of worse–just another comic book/super hero movie.

  133. JS Partisan says:

    Movieman, it’s not another superhero movie. It’s THE SUPERHERO movie :D!

  134. SamLowry says:

    I concur on Serenity, Pisher. I never watched the short-lived series but the premise of the movie is ridiculous. Bad enough that the Reavers, presented as savage, brutal, primal, animalistic humans (“even radio transmissions within their flotilla seem to be little more than shrieks and moans”), are still somehow able to pilot, navigate and maintain spaceships, but it’s revealed they became way after exposure to a crowd-control gas that was supposed to make them peaceful, because…uh…a team of scientists spent all that time, effort and funding to create something without ever bothering to see if it actually works? Because scientists are evil and stupid, I guess.

  135. JS Partisan says:

    Sam, do not make me have to post the entire ending of Serenity! That’s not how it’s explained. They also explained the Reavers are basically psychopaths but not crazy enough to fly ships. Come on man, that’s a shameful interpretation of that plot point :D!

  136. hcat says:

    Not trying to stir the shit here, but what are the examples of things Whedon has had an influence on? I don’t watch a lot of television so for all I know there could be a legion of shows that are copycats of Buffy and Angel, but nothing comes immediatly to mind. Perhaps I’m wrong but isn’t Whedon another television producer with a enamored fanbase like Abrams and Chris Carter before him? Not some major influence “on the stories that have come out in the past 15 years.”

    From the limited amount of Whedon’s stuff I have seen it seems that his specialty is groups in extraordinary circumstances somewhat winking at the audience about the extraordinary circumstances they are placed in. “Werewolves, Demons, Vampires- just another day at the office.” Now this fits in well with the bemused tone of the Marvel films where Banner does Yoga, Thor’s otherworldness is played for laughs, and Downey’s glib Stark is basically Peter Venkman in body armor. But I don’t see how that interplay is at all original, and I have never heard of anyone elses work being described as Whedonesque.

  137. KrazyEyes says:

    I’ve been down on Whedon ever since I saw SERENITY. How he managed to turn one the best TV show he’s done into that absolutely lousy movie is beyond me. It also cemented my dislike of his penchant for using a cheap, over-sentimentalized death scenes to shore up his lack of writing skill.

  138. SamLowry says:

    Dude, the observer seemed surprised that even normal people exposed to it just gave up and died. That tells me they never, ever, bothered to test it on a single subject before going directly to full-bore planetary release.

    Even witch doctors test their concoctions before pouring them down the throats of their patients.

    “…his penchant for using a cheap, over-sentimentalized death scenes to shore up his lack of writing skill.”

    I believe that’s called “being Jossed”.

  139. movieman says:

    JS- You say potato, I say po-tat-o, lol.
    Admittedly, it’s your genre, not mine.
    I just hope you’re not disappointed.
    For me it was merely okay, and definitely a half hour too long.

  140. JS Partisan says:

    HC, why do you think Twilight exist? Why do you think that all of this YA stuff exist? It’s sprang forth thanks to Joss influencing so much. It’s hard to explain this to someone like you whose not around it all the time. His work with female characters, in particular, has changed the way many of them are treated and the way people respond to them when they are treated horribly or as cheesecake. I’ve been living this for over a decade but trust me, he’s not Abrams or Carter, he means more than both of those guys. Sure Abrams has a movie career that Joss will probably now have a well, but comparing him to Carter is to ignore that Buffy aired 15 years ago. 15 years ago and he’s still incredibly important to pop culture. While the X-Files is all but a forgotten footnote from the 90s. Abrams biggest TV success, Alias, basically would not exist without Buffy. Again, it all goes back to Joss in one way or the other.

    Now if you want to go on about his use of death, then you are ignoring that he believes these things should have a cost. If you are going to fight Loki. It will have a cost. Wash died because he wanted this to cost that crew and while I disagree with it, you cannot deny that in a way it’s more realistic than everyone surviving to see another day.

    Movieman, trust me, I don’t have one particular genre, but it is THE SUPERHERO movie even if you think it’s an hour too long. Which we will get into later :D.

  141. pisher says:

    Avengers is THE Superhero Movie–of 2012–until July 20th. Enjoy it while it lasts, man.

    😉

  142. Glamourboy says:

    I take a look at this site most everyday. Sometimes there are good articles, sometimes there’s nothing. There are times that I’ve been critical of Mr. Poland’s viewpoints….and mostly I wish there was just more news and less dp’s, which I never, ever watch. But I do appreciate that this man has put together a website with info and stories and links…and yes, Mr. Poland is an easy target because he takes the bait time and time again from his readers.

    Maybe I was brought up with a sense of manners that some others don’t have here….but when I am invited into someone’s home, I don’t berate the host. If I don’t like him–then I go somewhere else. Putting together a website is an ambitious undertaking…if you don’t like what Mr. Poland is about, then I’d suggest moving on.

    JSP, arguing with you is one of the biggest waste of times I can imagine. Whether you believe it or not, you do come after DP often and with an intensity that is hard to understand. If you look at the top of this thread, DP gives his review of The Avengers..based on having seen it. You come in and trash him for his point of view…having not seen it. It just makes you look stupid. You obviously don’t like DP, don’t like his views…so why troll the site here? Reading these dialogues I have to step stone through these ridiculous squabbles, which have NOTHING to do with movies, but everything to do with ego. I honestly don’t know why DP hasn’t banned you from this site…if it was my site, I would have. You bring nothing here but a sense of drama.

  143. cadavra says:

    THE Superhero Movie? Is that anything like Huntz Hall is THE Bowery Boy? 😀

  144. SamLowry says:

    And as for “Werewolves, Demons, Vampires–just another day at the office,” I only wish the show was like that. Perhaps their budget was microscopic, but the few times I tried to get into it I found way too little of that and way too much chitchat. Moody, snarky, too-hip-for-room, self-referential to the point of “WTF are they talking about?” chitchat which made the base roll in the aisles while repelling outsiders and confounding anyone trying to ease themselves into the pool, which admittedly reeked of dirty armpits and patchouli.

    Has anyone tried to watch any of those episodes recently? I imagine they haven’t aged well.

  145. martin s says:

    Martin S, seriously, you are on record from four years ago stating this film would never happen. It’s here in the annuls of this blog and you dare to give me some silliness about Favreau? Thanks for sharing RDJ’s sense of density about Favreau but come on man, this is Joss’ baby, and that’s how it’s being sold.

    What happened in that time?

    Disney bought Marvel.

    You’ve never understood how they’ve operated, so I don’t expect that to start now.

    You also doubting Joss will be the director for another Marvel film, ignores what happened with Favreau. Everyone thought he wouldn’t come back for IM2 and he did. If you think Feige will let go of a guy that’s possibly going to give them a billion dollar film, then I will take that bet Martin. I will take that bet.

    I didn’t say “let go”. I said move to a producer role.

    No one thought Branagh wouldn’t be back for Thor 2. They bounced him even after Hemsworth lobbied for his return.

    Fav’s was a different deal. If left to Marvel, he wouldn’t have been back. RDJ made it happen by threatening to walk.

    Seriously though, don’t aw jeez me about anything on this film, because you doubted it would even happen. Again, why do you do it to yourself, to post in something having to do with the Avengers

    Because you talk in a vacuum. As if things are willed into existence and its nonsense.

    Disney doesn’t buy Marvel, Avengers doesn’t happen because Marvel has not been able to gauge spending and make an Avengers film on the scale needed. Whedon was brought in just for that concern. After the buyout, Marvel could go deeper into the well and not risk anything since Disney is now ownership of the credit line.

    That simple.

  146. Krillian says:

    “So let’s be mindful of the fact that there is an element of Mr. Whedon’s fanbase that is simply impossible for any sane civilized person to tolerate.”

    I would argue you could say any group that is labelled a “fanbase” would contain such an element. Otherwise Jeff Wells wants to give you a wet sloppy kiss for such a sentiment.

    Dang, and the movie hasn’t opened here yet…

  147. pisher says:

    That’s true enough, Krillian–but the extreme element within Whedon’s fanbase really is the worst–okay, maybe tied with Peter Jackson’s, but those people at least bathe occasionally. 😉

  148. pisher says:

    cadavra, HOW DARE YOU, SIR!!!???

    Everybody knows Leo Gorcey is THE Bowery Boy.

    I shall await your seconds, that we may settle this like gentlemen.

    😉

  149. storymark says:

    I think Sam and Pisher are the same person. Their comments are practically identical, and now they’re using the same phrasing.

  150. pisher says:

    I’ve never posted here under any name but pisher, or on any other thread on this blog under any name at all.

    But have ya ever noticed how when people are starting to lose an argument on an internet forum, they start seeing double?

    😉

  151. storymark says:

    We were having an argument? Delusional much?

    And when do poeple posting under multiple names EVER admit it?

  152. bulldog68 says:

    Without Buffy there would be no Alias. Pleeeeeez. JS you give Whedon way to much credit.

  153. pisher says:

    storymark, why would I lie? I pretty much agree entirely with Mr. Poland, and my posts tend to (rather weakly) echo his main points, so why don’t you claim I’m one of his aliases?

    As to delusional, I think you’ve got that side of the street covered nicely. :)

  154. David Poland says:

    All I can add to the accusation against pisher is that the first sign of his IP address was yesterday and he’s the only one who’s posted from it.

    And the only reference to a “pisher” before yesterday was by Christian… in reference to Kos.

  155. storymark says:

    Fair enough. Just making note of the similarity.

  156. storymark says:

    “As to delusional, I think you’ve got that side of the street covered nicely. ”

    Seriosuly, you said I was loosing an argument that didn’t actually exist…. and now call me delusional for being aware of this?

    Ok, so not a double – just a trolling asshat.

  157. christian says:

    Martin S: “Disney doesn’t buy Marvel, Avengers doesn’t happen”

    JS: “But it did happen, Blanche, it DID HAPPEN!”

  158. pisher says:

    storymark, I don’t suppose you’d care to apologize, now that David has neatly debunked your theory about me posting under another name here?

    And I don’t remember saying anything about you ‘loosing’ any arguments. Best as I can tell, you’ve never loosed a single one here. 😉

  159. Hallick says:

    “Bad enough that the Reavers, presented as savage, brutal, primal, animalistic humans (“even radio transmissions within their flotilla seem to be little more than shrieks and moans”), are still somehow able to pilot, navigate and maintain spaceships, but it’s revealed they became way after exposure to a crowd-control gas that was supposed to make them peaceful, because…uh…a team of scientists spent all that time, effort and funding to create something without ever bothering to see if it actually works? Because scientists are evil and stupid, I guess.”

    Pharmaceutical misadventures plus government mishandling? I know, that totally never happens in real life!

  160. brack says:

    lol @ christian

  161. pisher says:

    Hallick, you can justify it all you like, but the Reavers never made any sense, and more to the point, were never remotely scary or effective as a plot device.

    I really wanted to love Firefly when I first heard about it. Then I saw it. Put me in the camp of the vast majority who think that rather than solving what Whedon perceived as the flaws of Star Trek, it rather refined them, made them far worse, and cut out all the good stuff.

    But the series looked pretty good next to the movie.

  162. JS Partisan says:

    Martin, doesn’t change a thing. You wrote on this blog, fought tooth and nail with anyone, that the Avengers would never happen. You cannot deny that, sir. Everything else is a deflection. End of line.

    Hal, that’s why you are like a top ten poster all time on this blog.

    Glamourboy, If you see the reality of this blog that way, then go right ahead. It just ignores that you have an opinion, that’s not supported by any facts what so ever.

    I do not hate David, never have, and you thinking you need to defend him is funny. You thinking I am a troll for having an opinion is really fucked up. God forbid someone disagrees and points out why.

    That’s a very silly freaking post man. It has everything to do with you projecting on me and not the reality of me or this blog, in anyway.

  163. pisher says:

    And you would know about opinions not supported by any facts ‘what so ever’. :D\

    PS: Wow, that was a fast edit.

    Are you actually starting to see how you look to other posters?

    Luke, you’ve just taken your first step into a larger world.

    😉

  164. Joe Leydon says:

    Just curious, JSP: Have you actually seen The Avengers yet? Only reason I ask is, I vaguely recall your once posting here something to the effect that you never have any expectations about a movie — that is, you never expect to like or dislike it — before you sit down to watch it. Am I remembering correctly, or have I confused you with someone else?

  165. anghus says:

    It doesnt translate as hate to me but a lack of respect.

    You keep showing up at the guys party and screaming “your party sucks man” and you think because you add smiley face emoticons that it doesnt come across dickish.

    It does. Even more so when you post like a twelve year old texting.

  166. JS Partisan says:

    Yeah Joe, I will never understand anyone who writes this sentence; “I went in wanting to love this movie.” That way of thinking is so foreign to me. How people do it, is beyond me. Also, this is about Joss. You don’t fuck with Joss. Nor refer to anything he does as medicore.

    Ang, did you graduate from the Jeff McMahon School of Not Understanding The Internet? If so, how much was that diploma? You stating that using an emoticon to make something not dickish and it still coming across that way, is TOTALLY IGNORING WHY THAT EMOTICON IS PUT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

    This is just text, emoticons are for inserted levity, and you or anyone else dismissing them is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

    Now if you want to act as this is a party. Is it polite for one guest to refer to another guest as a cunt? A retard? An asshole? A bitch? Attacking someone for loving something you don’t? Is that polite? Singling me out, ignores the general bad behavior that happens on this blog. This is a blog. A blog where the guy who runs it has a tendency to shit on those, who disagrees with him. You got to give it to get it, and I am not going to give it. Until then, it is what it is, you dick 😛 (That’s there for silliness but you keep on acting as if you need to prove this: http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/1633391_o.gif
    by not using an emoticon.)

  167. anghus says:

    You single yourself out my friend.

    You post more than anyone else on this blog. And by my count you dont have a lot of people quick to jump to your defense. But my armchair psyche skills tell me you dig that since you fancy yourself as some kind of rebel.

    And yes, if i was at a party and someone was constantly dominating the conversation id probably ask them to shut up and let someone else talk. Youd serve your cause better by cutting your output in half.

  168. Paul D/Stella says:

    Joe I once made the mistake of suggesting that IO had already made up his mind to like Scott Pilgrim before he saw it. I made the claim because he was serving as an intense cheerleader for it long before he even saw it. At the time I was not trying to be cruel. He tore me a new one for months and months for making the suggestion.

    I realize I just brought him up, but ignoring IO is the way to go. It isn’t always easy, but it makes this place so much more pleasant. He is far and away the worst poster here, and I too wish he’d just go away if he dislikes DP and his opinions so much. Plenty of other places to go.

    Go ahead and rip me apart now IO. I promise you, I won’t bother to read it. Life’s too short.

  169. JS Partisan says:

    Ang, my armchair psyche skills make you read like an man worn down by life, that likes to shit on someone whose not. Excuse me for again, not buying into anything you’ve ever had to state about me. You can feel the same way about my diagnosis but you have to look in the mirror and see what you see, and that’s on you buddy.

    Ang and …, why do I have to leave? Why don’t you two leave? There are plenty of places to go and if you cut your outputs down in half, then no one would notice anyway because what do you contribute other than mehs? Both of you are one gray blob of meh. Everything is meh. Meh. Meh. Meh meh meh meh. I don’t ignore … posts, because all they read like are; “Meh meh meh, meh, meh meh meh.”

    Again, the fact that one of you and …, can write out what you write out about me, given where you are in life, is bizarre. I’d also love to have anghus tell me to shut up in real life. That would be hilarious.

  170. anghus says:

    Not my place to tell you to leave. Its not my party. And im not even advocating you leave, just employ some basic civility and perhaps a modicum of restraint.

    But as your last post proved youre incapable of either.

  171. cadavra says:

    Pisher: OF COURSE Leo Gorcey is THE Bowery Boy. In fact, that’s the way I always use that joke. I just changed it to Huntz Hall to freshen it up a bit. Sorry to have incurred doubts about this vital issue. 😉

  172. martin s says:

    Martin, doesn’t change a thing. You wrote on this blog, fought tooth and nail with anyone, that the Avengers would never happen. You cannot deny that, sir. Everything else is a deflection. End of line.

    With anyone? No one here gave shit, but you. The difference between us, is when I’m off, I admit it. It makes no difference to me. You, though, have never possessed that ability. That’s why so many people love giving you shit; you’re predictable.

    When Disney bought them, I’d said it changed everything. I laid out what they were after, what they saw in Thor and Cap, and how Avengers was possible as long as those two weren’t trainwrecks.

    But there’s no point to any of this, because you’re looking for some kind of vindication. I guess it’s over being so fucking wrong about TDKR. So whatev.

    …and Jason – you really need to take notice of something.

    Dave is never going to give you a shot at a column, like he did Lex. You’re never going to be Mr. Geek at MCN.

    Read through this thread alone, and see how many people are tired – just fucking tired – of you. I know you fancy yourself the straw that stirs the drink, but in truth, you’re a spazzy troll.

    I’ve come at you numerous times for shitting on Dave because you talk at him with spite. And after you’re called out for it, you change to the “it’s all good!!” emoticon bullshit. Predictable.

    What’s honestly amazing, is that you’re telling people they should leave if they don’t like you, when the guy who runs the place only keeps you around for the hit count.

    If the regulars left, Poland wouldn’t keep things the same just for you. But when you’ve been banned, nothing changes.

    To be honest, Dave does need to change the “social media” aspect of MCN.

  173. Joe Leydon says:

    Yeah Joe, I will never understand anyone who writes this sentence; “I went in wanting to love this movie.” That way of thinking is so foreign to me. How people do it, is beyond me. Also, this is about Joss. You don’t fuck with Joss. Nor refer to anything he does as mediocre.

    OK, I’m sorry, but I have read this three times, and I can’t decide: Is this meant to be cheeky self-parody, or just a contradictory statement?

  174. Joe Straatmann says:

    I wouldn’t say I “left” this site, but I don’t comment or discuss nearly as much as I used to so much I’m pretty much a non-entity (Not to say I was much of one in the first place. I do realize I have a dry personality that lacks a certain….. “bazinga?”). One thing is it feels like most big movies are done being discussed in any serious length by the weekend BEFORE it comes out, and that’s just the nature of the beast not being a member of the media outside a major market. The other is the increased antogonistic response when trying to discuss something. I get the picture when I try to discuss Sucker Punch with people who liked it but couldn’t fill out a decent character web (You know, those lame screenplay exercises where you put a character’s name in the middle and then connect them with bubbles of their character traits) and I’M the one who’s missing something. I had better things to do with my time. Like taking up fencing. Hey, it’s fun.

  175. Foamy Squirrel says:

    I second that. Putting up fence posts around the yard is awesome.

  176. greg says:

    I hardly ever post here, but have been reading David’s stuff for years.. just in the last few months have I been reading the comments because as everyone knows, message board commenting is about the worst thing to do with the Interweb…

    JSP, as someone who doesn’t stop by all that much, you sound like a guy with a problem from that last post… Why would you stay here and post, you sound incredibly unhappy. Life is too short…

    Just my two cents.

    Enjoy The Avengers all… and Dark Knight Rises too…

    Greg

  177. pisher says:

    Very well, cadavra. You may continue to live. Oh wait, noticing the name now. You may continue to do whatever you are currently doing. 😉

  178. pisher says:

    So finally seeing major critic reviews up–and they’re all rated ‘fresh’ so far, except for A.O. Scott’s unqualified pan in the Paper of Record–and yet–

    “If, as “The Avengers” depressingly underlines, comic-book movies are the ultimate expression of today’s Hollywood zeitgeist the way, say, “Gone With the Wind” or”Casablanca”epitomized an earlier time, it’s good to at least have them done this well. If you have to watch “a handful of freaks, isolated and unbalanced” saving the planet for the umpteenth time, you could do a whole lot worse.”
    Kenneth Turan.

    ” ‘Comic-Con nerds will have multiple orgasms,’ predicts critic David Edelstein in New York magazine, confirming something I had vaguely suspected about them. If he is correct, it’s time for desperately needed movies to re-educate nerds in the joys of sex. “The Avengers” is done well by Joss Whedon, with style and energy. It provides its fans with exactly what they desire. Whether it is exactly what they deserve is arguable.”
    Roger Ebert.

    Oh I think some of them deserve it, Unca Rog. 😉

  179. palmtree says:

    Oddly enough, I’ve read this entire thread, and I now have zero expectations of The Avengers. Tempest in a teapot. I’ll probably go on its fourth weekend at the $2 theater and enjoy the hell out of it without requiring the movie to be the end-all-be-all of summer blockbuster filmmaking.

    The only movies that I think are worth my time in going to see opening weekend with the crowds are the ones that INCLUDE me, as in I don’t have to be obsessed with a particular storyline or artist to “get” it.

  180. Triple Option says:

    Someone asked upthread if The Avengers is worth the 3D surcharge…

    NO, it is not! See it in 2D (I saw it in 3D) and you will be fine.

  181. GexL says:

    What do the Hulk’s FEET look like? Cute?

  182. Joe Marek says:

    So this little spoiled brat of a reviewer is boo-hoo-hooing because the Avengers will gross more than his favorite art-house film. Well, that’s just too bad. This is a great movie!

  183. David Poland says:

    For the record, Joe, I couldn’t care less how much this film makes. It is not a different film if it makes a billion or if it made $3.

    But your odd personal attack suggests enormous insecurity with your position.

  184. Triple Option says:

    I heard it multi times for multi reasons why there’d never be an Avengers movie. A lot of obstacles I could see preventing the movie from ever launching. Disney’s purchase of Marvel does make sense as to how it could finally come together but it still seems like they should’ve been able to get it done, eventually. People always make the analogy that it’s filmmaking and not rocket science but in a sense that’s exactly what it seemed like to me. No, it’s not easy putting together a $150M+ movie but it shouldn’t be impossible. It’s like they were sending chimpanzees up into orbit for the past decade, what do you mean to tell me you can’t get a man to walk in outer space?? Why??

    There’s been more than enough negativity in this thread. I won’t extol any undue praise but I’ll leave my minor quibbles aside. It was nice just being in a room filled w/people of different demos being excited for something and leaving happier for the experience. I hope that happens a lot this summer.

  185. pisher says:

    So wouldn’t it be equally nice sitting in a theater full of Justin Bieber fans during a screening of “Never Say Never”?

    :)

  186. Triple Option says:

    I said people being excited FOR something and leaving happier. I’m sure at any given concert there’s measurable percentage of adults thinking “these spoiled kids have no idea how much I sacrifice for them!” And happy that it’s finally over is not the same.

  187. pisher give it a rest says:

    We know, we know. You hate Whedon, pisher. You always have. Even after the Avengers movie breaks records you’ll move the goalposts to some undefined future and talk about posterity and legacy. Seriously, at this point it’s kinda sad.

  188. greg says:

    Sorry, that’s a pretty entertaining movie right there.. not perfect by any means, but the audience I just saw it with clapped and yelled and laughed 4 dozen times so something was working…

  189. orlando says:

    Sounds like this guy just has a general hatred for Comic book films. I’m sorry, but if you don’t like “Spider-Man 2″,”Iron Man”,”The Dark Knight” or “The Avengers”, then something is not right, i’m sorry but it’s just not. Maybe more open minded critics like Kim Voyar should only be left to review comic book films on this site. There’s no need in having some grumpy old man who already has a premeditated dislike for a genre reviewing a film, showing his true lack of professionalism and personal agendas.

Leonard Klady's Friday Estimates
Friday Screens % Chg Cume
Title Gross Thtr % Chgn Cume
Venom 33 4250 NEW 33
A Star is Born 15.7 3686 NEW 15.7
Smallfoot 3.5 4131 -46% 31.3
Night School 3.5 3019 -63% 37.9
The House Wirh a Clock in its Walls 1.8 3463 -43% 49.5
A Simple Favor 1 2408 -50% 46.6
The Nun 0.75 2264 -52% 111.5
Hell Fest 0.6 2297 -70% 7.4
Crazy Rich Asians 0.6 1466 -51% 167.6
The Predator 0.25 1643 -77% 49.3
Also Debuting
The Hate U Give 0.17 36
Shine 85,600 609
Exes Baggage 75,900 62
NOTA 71,300 138
96 61,600 62
Andhadhun 55,000 54
Afsar 45,400 33
Project Gutenberg 36,000 17
Love Yatri 22,300 41
Hello, Mrs. Money 22,200 37
Studio 54 5,300 1
Loving Pablo 4,200 15
3-Day Estimates Weekend % Chg Cume
No Good Dead 24.4 (11,230) NEW 24.4
Dolphin Tale 2 16.6 (4,540) NEW 16.6
Guardians of the Galaxy 7.9 (2,550) -23% 305.8
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 4.8 (1,630) -26% 181.1
The Drop 4.4 (5,480) NEW 4.4
Let's Be Cops 4.3 (1,570) -22% 73
If I Stay 4.0 (1,320) -28% 44.9
The November Man 2.8 (1,030) -36% 22.5
The Giver 2.5 (1,120) -26% 41.2
The Hundred-Foot Journey 2.5 (1,270) -21% 49.4