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David Poland

By David Poland poland@moviecitynews.com

Poll du Jour



Results after the jump…



125 Responses to “Poll du Jour”

  1. christian says:

    Truly tasteless. Come on.

  2. Joe Leydon says:

    So David, I’m curious: At what point did you decide you needed to sink to Jeff Wells’ level?

  3. lazarus says:

    Normally I’d agree with the above, but the guy has a near-death experience and instead of turning that into something positive, winds up ODing?
    That’s pretty pathetic.

  4. Aris P says:

    How can so many people know this DJ? Who is this guy? Are DJ’s still a happening subculture?

  5. David Poland says:

    I don’t really agree with you on this, Christian or Joe… but why is it you always seem to need to take a step more than just disagreeing, Joe?
    The only reason this guy is a news story is who he slept with and a crash he survived. I don’t have a lot of sympathy for people abusing drugs, f-ing it up, and then being treated like they were innocents. I will save my sad solemnity for people who have BEEN abused, like the little girl who was kidnapped, raped, and kept by a lunatic for over a decade.
    Same with MJ. The doctor should lose whatever license he has that lets him prescribe drugs and should not be allowed to treat patients. Prosecute him for abusing his role as a doctor. But murder? More like assisted suicide.
    You don’t find the Final Destination of this at all amusing? Sorry. You’ll get over it. I promise it won’t be the only tasteless joke I tell this weekend.

  6. Has it been confirmed it was accidental though? From the shit he’s been through lately I wouldn’t be surprised if it was deliberate.

  7. David Poland says:

    I don’t know what the answer to how he died is… I don’t want to be assuming a suicide… Carradine… lesson learned… not really the point here, eh?

  8. scooterzz says:

    fwiw — i interviewed the guy exactly a month ago and he talked about still being in a lot of pain from the plane wreck and extensive burns…he seemed to have a case of ‘survivors guilt’ but talked about wanting to live life for positive things and was set to host a new reality show for mtv called ‘too far gone’ about rehab and intervention….it won’t surprise me to hear it was an accidental overdose but you never know…

  9. Hallick says:

    I’m more disturbed by the headline and lead sentence of this LA Times article:
    “Ryan Seacrest, P. Diddy, John Mayer tweet about DJ AM’s shocking death”
    “Friends and admirers of DJ AM have been tweeting all afternoon about the shocking death of Adam Goldstein.”
    Imagine that. Because the first thing I’m going to do if I ever find myself suddenly losing a loved one is not go seek solace in the company of my friends or family. No way! I gotta find me a Blackberry and frantically type in my Twitter account password post haste.
    Between the stories of that kidnapped girl being used as a rape & reproduction toy for the better part of two decades, and expressions of grief and loss being reduced to goddamn TWEETS from the likes of Ryan Seacreast and P. Diddy, there isn’t enough vomiting in all the chemo treatments, hangovers and food poisonings in all the globe that would ever make me feel clean about the world I’m living in right now.
    Die, Twitter. Die.

  10. lazarus says:

    Scooterzz, that’s all well and good, but even if it was an accidental overdose, the guy was probably not just a casual drug user. If you’re messing around with stuff that’s going to kill you if you make a mistake about dosage, well then you were asking for trouble to begin with.
    Of course, if this was a painkille-type situation that was something he was taking for long-term injuries, I can understand. Still a sad end for someone given a rare second chance.

  11. Mr. F. says:

    Come on David… you’re better than this.
    As you said yourself: “I don’t know what the answer to how he died is…” And that’s the problem.
    Travis Barker said today that they both ended up on pretty hardcore painkillers to help deal with the *3rd-degree burns* they both suffered from the crash… and that while he was able to wean himself off them, he wasn’t sure Goldstein was doing as well. Is there any truth to that? Or is it just a friend trying to cover for him? Who knows — it hasn’t even been 24 hours yet.
    I know you’re a better person than he was, and that you’d be able to cope with serious injuries without any problems. You’re perfect. But why the rush to slam on the guy? Sure, he was famous for who he slept with. And for surviving the crash. Who cares?
    Typically, you don’t have a lot of patience for people who rush to assumptions without having all the facts. So what’s the difference here?
    But hey, maybe I’m wrong and he deserves to be made fun of while his corpse is still warm. Have at it!

  12. matro says:

    Keith Moon/Heath Ledger/Jimi Hendrix/Janis Joplin: tragic drug abuse victims…or fodder for retarded headlines by people 1/100th as talented as they were?
    I’m not saying DJ AM was on their level, but jesus. Just because you didn’t listen to his music doesn’t mean that he wasn’t legitimately popular and didn’t co-headline some major stadium gigs.
    Why don’t you stick to movies and stop talking about death. If I have to read another fawning obit that ends with “He/she will be missed” like it’s supposed to be some solemn incantation I’m going to gag.

  13. sloanish says:

    Painkillers is one thing, but what about the crackpipe they found?

  14. jeffmcm says:

    I have no idea who this ‘DJ AM’ person is, which means that my initial reaction to seeing this post was ‘wow, David Poland must really hate and/or be contemptuous of whoever this guy is who just died or he wouldn’t have made such a post’. And apparently I was right.

  15. Dave, in regards to “not really the point” I was going to say exactly what Mr F said. You say you have no sympathy for drug addicts and yet this man had clearly been on pain meds and if he was on more than one (addicted or not) then it is yet another example of doctors contributing to the death of somebody due to over-prescriptions and the like.
    That being said, I’ve heard a lot about this man and yet I’d never heard anything he has done so I don’t have any ties to him whatsoever.

  16. Jack Walsh says:

    I’m going to try to not overreact to any of your statements this time, but….do you need a ‘perspective’ intervention or something? I’ve barely heard of DJ AM outside of his accident, and I don’t know anything of his history of drug abuse, but would you be proud to look his mother in the face and read your above statement, or point out your poll? You might as well have written “He was a drug addict, so he deserved to die!”.
    “I don’t have a lot of sympathy for people abusing drugs, f-ing it up, and then being treated like they were innocents. I will save my sad solemnity for people who have BEEN abused, like the little girl who was kidnapped, raped, and kept by a lunatic for over a decade.”
    Wow-could you pick a bigger polar opposite to defend your point? “I have a right to pick on DJ AM, because I can compare his situation, to one of the all-time jaw-dropping incidents of abuse in modern history. So there!!!” So you’re saying that you have no sympathy for the privileged vs. the weak? Shocking!
    “But murder? More like assisted suicide.”
    Granted, the MJ thing has been overblown, but do you seriously not have a side of you that understands that he was abused as a kid, and obviously never recovered from it? I don’t think it’s ok to condone drug addiction, but I also think it’s horrible to post a dumb survey on your website that makes light of someone elses death, even if that person may have brought it upon themselves.
    Just one more thought for you to consider about my ‘perspective’ question? Obviously, you consider DJ AM to be a ‘minor’ celebrity, or you wouldn’t dare post that poll. Would you ever have had a similar poll about Heath Ledger following his death, and if so, when people questioned you about the taste value of said poll, would you still defend yourself? Would you still be making statements like this:
    “I don’t have a lot of sympathy for people abusing drugs, f-ing it up, and then being treated like they were innocents. ”
    How would that be different? Would you sit in a room with Joaquin Phoenix and read the above statement? Where do you draw the line with your ethics?

  17. Joe Leydon says:

    Maybe David was upset by the low-thread-count T-shirts the guy wore?

  18. jeffreywells says:

    Jefrey Wells to Joe Leydon:
    You said last night on the Hot Blog that by running some kind of satirical death chart about DJ AM David Poland was sinking to my level.
    I don’t know what level you think I’m operating at, but I cover a lot of topics each and every day and I pour blood, sweat and tears into all of them. I work hard, I think hard and I’ve built something out of HE that has been deemed credible, highly readable, impassioned, colorful, opinionated, expressive-of-a-particular-personality-and-worldview, amusing and tenacious and what-have-you. And you pop up and refer to me as operating on some scurvy level that Poland needs to shake himself out of and rise above?
    Speaking as one very hard-working, constantly-exhausted, burning-the-candle-at-both-ends journalist to another, and as one who has always appreciated your advice, filmic wisdom and friendship-from-afar, I want to say you really have become quite the asshole.
    As far as I can recall you stopped visiting HE and severed ties after I suggested that Houston’s fossil-fuel-burning economy had come back and bitten Houston in the ass, karma-wise, when Hurricane Ike struck last September. It is not shocking news to most people who’ve gone beyond sixth or seventh grade or read the occasional newspaper or news site that the rise in hurricane activity over the last few years is tied to global warming, and that fossil fuel-burning is a key cause of global warming. So how was I wrong in saying that karma-payback was a component in Houston’s sufferings?
    In response you freaked out like a two year old. You basically said in effect, “How dare you come to any conclusions about Houston’s oil karma! You can’t say or think that! Friends and family of Joe Leydon are hurting and that’s all that matters. Any and all judgments about Houston now and for the foreseeable future are off the table!”
    Obviously an unruly, immature and illogical way to respond. Especially considering I was right. Well, at least you’ve become a cautionary tale. I must remind myself in the future never to sink to Joe Leydon’s level.

    Jeffrey Wells
    Hollywood Elsewhere
    cell: 310.279.7696

  19. jeffreywells says:

    Jefrey Wells to Joe Leydon:
    You said last night on the Hot Blog that by running some kind of satirical death chart about DJ AM David Poland was sinking to my level.
    I don’t know what level you think I’m operating at, but I cover a lot of topics each and every day and I pour blood, sweat and tears into all of them. I work hard, I think hard and I’ve built something out of HE that has been deemed credible, highly readable, impassioned, colorful, opinionated, expressive-of-a-particular-personality-and-worldview, amusing and tenacious and what-have-you. And you pop up and refer to me as operating on some scurvy level that Poland needs to shake himself out of and rise above?
    Speaking as one very hard-working, constantly-exhausted, burning-the-candle-at-both-ends journalist to another, and as one who has always appreciated your advice, filmic wisdom and friendship-from-afar, I want to say you really have become quite the asshole.
    As far as I can recall you stopped visiting HE and severed ties after I suggested that Houston’s fossil-fuel-burning economy had come back and bitten Houston in the ass, karma-wise, when Hurricane Ike struck last September. It is not shocking news to most people who’ve gone beyond sixth or seventh grade or read the occasional newspaper or news site that the rise in hurricane activity over the last few years is tied to global warming, and that fossil fuel-burning is a key cause of global warming. So how was I wrong in saying that karma-payback was a component in Houston’s sufferings?
    In response you freaked out like a two year old. You basically said in effect, “How dare you come to any conclusions about Houston’s oil karma! You can’t say or think that! Friends and family of Joe Leydon are hurting and that’s all that matters. Any and all judgments about Houston now and for the foreseeable future are off the table!”
    Obviously an unruly, immature and illogical way to respond. Especially considering I was right. Well, at least you’ve become a cautionary tale. I must remind myself in the future never to sink to Joe Leydon’s level.

    Jeffrey Wells
    Hollywood Elsewhere
    cell: 310.279.7696

  20. martin says:

    My personal opinion, and I only vaguely know about DJ AM, but I do not think it was painkillers from the crash burns. He had a history of drug abuse I believe that he may have relapsed. That being said, I find this poll to be in very bad taste. At worst he was still a talented DJ with a pretty good group of fans, not really someone that deserves to be completely mocked the day of his death.

  21. Joe Leydon says:

    Jesus, I feel like Jimmy Carter, bringing Begin and Sadat together in 1978. Just think: Wells posting — twice — on Poland’s site. Damn. Excuse me, now: I’m off to teach a Saturday class all about ’70s movies. Maybe Nicol and JeffMcM will show up, and I can bring them together, too.

  22. Tofu says:

    David’s never exactly been kind to the recently deceased. Anna Nicole Smith dies, and he laments on the wall to wall news coverage (on a slow as hell news day, mind you) that really only lasted for seventy minutes.

  23. boltbucket says:

    “I don’t have a lot of sympathy for people abusing drugs, f-ing it up, and then being treated like they were innocents. I will save my sad solemnity for people who have BEEN abused, like the little girl who was kidnapped, raped, and kept by a lunatic for over a decade.”
    This is one of the stupidest, shallowest and most revealing things I’ve ever read on your blog, David.
    There is a huge difference between the drug addict who goes out and shoots an old lady in the head to steal her handbag so he can get a fix, and someone who has been dealing with a momentous personal tragedy ODing on drugs while sitting alone in their home.
    That you can’t see the difference, and are so quick to judge and make crass (and unfunny) mockery of the situation, is pathetic and ugly.

  24. anghus says:

    I was always pretty nonchalant about celebrity deaths. my brother aptly quoted John Donne:
    “No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less… any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. ”
    maybe if we were all a little more invested in mankind, we’d be better off.
    Oh, and Wells. Your glass house shattered a long time ago, so i suppose the warning about chucking stones is a wasted effort. You’re a starfucker with an entitlement complex that dwarfs the most spoiled tween. I can say with absolute honesty that you contribute nothing to the enjoyment of film. You’re a cypher. The kind of writer who views the film industry in relation to yourself. The filter in which you view the industry is hubris.
    The only time your name is brought up outside of your website is the mention of strange behavior.
    “Did you hear what Wells did, he….”
    -berated someone over a hat
    -asked a director for nude screencaps
    -bailed on a festival over an internet connection
    trust me when i say el jefe, you’re literally the second to last person on the internet that should chastise anyone for anything.
    This is my favorite part:
    “I cover a lot of topics each and every day and I pour blood, sweat and tears into all of them. I work hard, I think hard and I’ve built something out of HE that has been deemed credible, highly readable, impassioned, colorful, opinionated, expressive-of-a-particular-personality-and-worldview, amusing and tenacious and what-have-you.”
    Here’s the stories on HE right now:
    A box office analysis.
    A story about an A&E Steven Seagall Series
    A Video Link to some news clip about racism and Obama
    Link to the Men Who Stare at Goats trailer
    A comment about a poster that you grabbed from In Contention
    Two Seperate pieces taking shots at Tarantino
    Something About Piven and his “mercury poisoning”
    A review for BIG FAN
    THAT is ‘blood sweat and tears’? You poured yourself into linking a bunch of material off site and dotting it with your two cents? Man, you have a broad definition of ‘work’.
    Oh, and ‘you think hard’? Seriously? What does that even mean?
    You do what you do and you’ve built up a fan base. Congrats. If you think that qualifies you as having a more valid opinion, then you’re an idiot. But it makes sense for someone who is defined by his perception of himself.
    Even your debate skills suck. You start your entire rant by trying to disqualify anyone who hasn’t acheived your level of “success”.
    It would be great if you went back to what you do best: being snarky and jerking off to your hit count.

  25. jeffreywells says:

    Wells to Phlegm-Anghus: I always include commentary when I run links to news stories and videos and whatnot. I never just post links. You try and bang out eight or ten items/stories and see what you come up with. I didn’t just link to the “Men Who Stare At Goats” trailer — I ran a whole riff about it and what it seems to say about the film and whatnot. Do you read? Are you ADD-afflicted? Do you use spell-check? It’s spelled “separate.” And it’s spelled “cipher” — only the British spell it “cypher,” apparently. God, I hate internet scum.

  26. David Poland says:

    At first, The Over-Reactors go all end-of-the-world on a crude, but topical joke. We even have one who thinks that being a drug addict in your living room is okay, but being a drug addict in an alley is reprehensible. There’s your thread count, Joe. Black and white is not a good place to be.
    But now, we have a flame war in my blog between Wells and Leydon. And i kinda have to blame it on LexG for stoking the false notion that I have anything other than a defensive posture regarding Jeff, whose work I haven’t read in over 2.5 years… whose voice I haven’t heard more than once or twice in the same… and who was once a friend until he abused the nature of that relationship beyond the point of it being anything other than self-destructive on my part to continue to have any relationship, online or off, with him.
    He, for for the record, disagrees… at least, that is what I hear, as he seems to tell others that I want to hurt him. I do not. I just wish not to be hurt by him anymore.
    And that is why Joe tries to use him against me. Weak stuff, Joe. Jeff is not Hitler, but the invocation of his name is about as legitimate.
    Truth is, this who thread would be a joke at a dinner table, getting laughs from half the table and “you idiot” from the other half… and the conversation would go on, since none of us would have much to really say about DJ AM. But it is the nature of the culture to overhype the loss of a truly niche guy because it is another OD to make into a cover story and it is the nature of the blog for some of you to take many things waaaay to seriously… and for me to be overly considerate of those responses and over-respond myself.
    Beware the end of August…

  27. christian says:

    Funny, in this instance I see two Belloqs facing each at a table…
    “God, I hate internet scum.”
    Self loathing is a terrible thing.

  28. David Poland says:

    Tofu… the Anna Nicole Smith coverage on CNN lasted for HOURS… and they dumped commercial breaks for HOURS… to cover a Playboy Playmate’s inevitable overdose.
    I have great sympathy for Anna Nicole Smith and all that she went through that made her into the f-ed up, self-absorbed, destructive person she became. But I have no patience for the destruction of our major news outlets as they blithely turn themselves into whore houses.
    I can see “Who Killed CBS?” and “Prime Times, Bad Times” on my shelf from here. I always thought the folks inside CBS who were so upset by the lowering of standards were overreacting, but I now see how each slip down the slope leads to the next one. And now we have Michael Wolff as both an authority on media AND a thief of media towards his entrepreneurial ends. Same with Huffington. And their shenanigans pull the rest of us down with them. They make Drudge look like a media virgin.
    Harrumph.

  29. christian says:

    “truly niche guy”
    Now PEOPLE are niche? Good Gawd.

  30. martin says:

    If he’s not worth talking about, then let’s not talk about him. Maybe sometimes it’s better to say nothing about the recently deceased than shit on them the day of their death. We’re not talking some huge asshole here that’s deserving of mockery. The reality here is that we don’t really know what happened or what pushed him to this conclusion, all speculation right now, so to start placing blame is wrong. Maybe he just fucked up and overdosed. Or maybe there were other circumstances we’re not aware of. I guess I can see the need to counter the likely over-hype from other media outlets, but I’d see more sense in that a week from now and not the day he’s being taken out of his apartment on a stretcher. The day Heath Ledger died did we need a poll: Drug overdose, or early Joker marketing has started for The Dark Knight? Yeah Heath was better know celebrity but it’s kind of the same thing.

  31. Cadavra says:

    “Keith Moon/Heath Ledger/Jimi Hendrix/Janis Joplin”
    And four decades on, people–especially famous ones–still abuse drugs like they’re invulnerable. Sorry, folks, I have no sympathy for those who have it all and then foolishly piss it away.

  32. David Poland says:

    “The day Heath Ledger died did we need a poll: Drug overdose, or early Joker marketing has started for The Dark Knight? Yeah Heath was better know celebrity but it’s kind of the same thing.”
    Yes, Martin… you’re on the right track.
    It’s not exactly the same thing, but we read about Ledger’s death delivering box office for TDK for months and months. And it was – and is – ridiculous. (Yes… obviously it is likely that some marginal number of tickets were sold on that basis… but nothing worth discussing.)
    The poll was not about DJ AM… it was about a media story, overhyped, minor character blown up to the top of the AP wire… that amazingly suffered a fate that was right out of a bad horror franchise that happened to open a movie on the same day he died.
    I can’t defend this as the best or most sophisticated joke in the world. But it’s not about DJ AM… it’s about the media culture.
    Suddenly, this blog entry has turned into a Bruno conversation. Where’s LaToya Jackson?

  33. scooterzz says:

    dp — please spare the bs spin…the poll wasn’t ‘about’ anything more than (what some consider) a bad-taste joke… to try and explain it now as ‘about media culture’ seems a wee bit disingenuous….hold your head up high, there’s a proud history attached to gallows humor…..

  34. Glenn Kenny says:

    Poland, your whole LIFE is a “Bruno” conversation.
    And remember, chief, DJ AM had parents…just like you. You tough-minded, call-it-like-you-see-it, ethics arbiter, and cheap (not to mention unoriginal) joke concocter, you.

  35. scooterzz says:

    AND —- now that i’m giving this whole thing more thought than it deserves: it just occurred to me that this week’s ‘celebrity three’ (ted kennedy, dominic dunne and dj am) all shared a history of publicly known substance abuse which, directly or indirectly, contributed to their deaths……
    it’s like the new millenium version of jimi, janis and jim…….

  36. David Poland says:

    Hi, Glenn… hope you can make a good column about this, you high-minded genius you. It’s nice to have a full time blog proctologist. And the job suits you so well.
    And Scoot… like you, in your second comment, I find myself overdiscussing. The dumb joke is obviously about culture and media and hype, etc. That doesn’t make it in better or lesser taste. It just is what it is.

  37. yancyskancy says:

    No one’s obligated to shed a tear for the guy, but sheesh. Does becoming rich and famous take away your right to be a human being in pain? Life can be damn hard, and sometimes we’re weak.

  38. anghus says:

    ah jeff, the typical response i’d expect from a piece of shit. you want to argue 2 points and refuse to address anything else.
    yes, I’M the internet scum. not the guy who sends emails to directors asking for nude screencaps.
    i bet that took a lot of HARD THINKING, which is my new favorite catchphrase.
    THINK HARD: The Jeff Wells Story. It practically writes itself.

  39. jeffmcm says:

    “The poll was not about DJ AM… it was about a media story…”
    Uh huh.

  40. jennab says:

    David, here is sincerely hoping your child does not ever struggle with addiction. And really, there are very few souls deserving of NO sympathy. My understanding is that he had some crazy life..drug-addicted mother, etc. I think you know your poll was beneath you.

  41. David Poland says:

    I am so comfortable apologizing for the bad taste… yet I am also overwhelmed by how overly dramatic the response is and don’t wish to condone that take on me being contrite.
    I am quashing my urge to overexplain some more, since it will clearly be turned into something else out of context. All I can really do is repeat what I said before… this was a barroom jest that has now been turned into a the 28th amendment to the constitution. I am certainly not above the criticism, but I am also certainly not indicting all drug addicts, their families, and all who suffer.
    I feel like we are in Alex Rodriguez knocking up Sarah Palin’s daughter territory here… she turned out to be under age… I see the discomfort… not even that good a joke… but geez!!!!

  42. Blackcloud says:

    Does DJ AM even have anything to do with Final Destination, or am I taking DP’s ill-conceived joke literally?

  43. Joe Leydon says:

    Something to consider: There is such a thing as survivor’s guilt. Self-loathing can make you do terrible things. And, yeah, at the other extreme; The idea — dramatized masterfully in Fearless — that, after surviving something that was supposed to kill you, you feel invulnerable and willing to risk anything, because you start to feel you cannot die.

  44. LYT says:

    Blackcloud – the Final Destination joke is that he survived a plane crash only to die from drugs. I actually heard a stand-up comic make it Friday night before David did.
    I was a bit more comfortable with it in that setting. David has occasional bursts of strange humor, but is often so hard on others not being serious that it just seems odd to see a morbid joke like that here. But clearly a few people were thinking it…he just put it out there.

  45. Glenn Kenny says:

    Poland

  46. leahnz says:

    wow, and yet I get accused of being ‘angry’ for using TWO adjectives in a row

  47. Joe Leydon says:

    For what it’s worth: I invited a dear friend — someone who does not post on this blog, someone who has nothing to do with film journalism, professional or amateur — to read this thread. This is her response:
    I just read the stuff on the Hot Blog. Poland and Wells indeed were alike in that neither of them had a thought nor empathy for REAL people who are hurting. Wells just saw Houston as “the oil industry,” not a city full of real human beings — men, women, children, babies — most of whom do not work for oil companies. Poland gave no thought for the man who died, a man who obviously had emotional problems, nor did Poland think about those who loved that man and are now in pain, nor about the people reading the Hot Blog who may bve struggling with addictions of their own.
    Both Wells and Poland showed a stunning lack of empathy and wrote without thinking, then scrambled to defend themselves, instead of admitting they were wrong. Who knows, though: Maybe neither of them were shown empathy when they were children. Maybe they didn’t learn it or had it drilled out of them.
    We (and by we, I mean humans) need to do better than this.

  48. “only the British spell it “cypher,” apparently.”
    Is it wrong that THAT is the most offensive thing in this entire thread for me. Fuck you, Jeff Wells.

  49. Zac Bertschy says:

    Well, I thought it was kinda funny.
    There is no longer a “too soon” on the internet, by the way. Anyone who thinks they’re going to find somber, respectful remembrance on the internet in the wake of an (even minor) celebrity death rather than a race to make the best joke about it either hasn’t been doing this long enough, or simply hasn’t broken down that wall that allows you to crack jokes about it while in the back of your head knowing you’d never do it in the actual presence of someone who actually knew or sincerely cared about the person.
    I was sad after Michael Jackson’s death, but that didn’t stop me from making jokes on Twitter about it with my friends.

  50. David Poland says:

    I don’t know, you stud muffin, Glenn. Scuttling through my feces, looking for something you can point out as more rancid than the rest seems to be a job for you these days. And you do a great job. I never even feel your head going up my ass.
    I remember when I thought you were actually a serious critic. But you’re wasting your time on me? Oh well.
    The coward that you are, pally, is the kind who attacks with lame schoolyard stuff about what you think is tough about what others look like, hoping to win by intimidation. Chest hair? Really? Did you have a spontaneous ejaculation when you thought of that zinger? (Hope that’s not a sensitive subject, friend.)
    You are, sadly, too weak to fight your battles like a man. You don’t seem to have the rhetorical muscle to actually deal with issues. You’re too busy counting my words. You might as well start calling me David Hussein Poland, questioning whether I am lying about my IQ, and calling me a socialist. Can you see Russia from your house, Glenn?
    Honestly, I have no idea why you have chosen to become my li’l bitch (apologies to females of all species), cleaning up after my mess as a form of content creation, as though you have some crush on me like a rejected 14-year-old. I don’t have anything – other than this – against you. But then again, I don’t feel compelled to read you, much less count your words and writhe over your prose stylings. Who has that kind of time to waste?
    That said, I still don’t stop our headlines editor from posting your stuff when he feels it’s worthy. I guess to be a great man, I would have to be as petty as you.
    Not this week. For now, I will just be the asshole who responded to the asshole.
    Seacrest out.

  51. David Poland says:

    And Joe… it’s not a popularity contest. You don’t like it? Sorry. But this isn’t world peace. I don’t need another vote in from a non-industry person to determine if I should agree with you or not.
    And typically, you continue to push the Wells comparison, which is infinitely more crass and childish than the silly, stupid joke that started this circle jerk of the minor made major.

  52. Joe Leydon says:

    Actually, David: No, it isn’t.

  53. Joe Leydon says:

    David: You are better than this. Or am I wrong?

  54. David Poland says:

    Yes, Joe.. I am better than continuing to waste my time with your efforts to corner me when I have been excessively clear about my position.

  55. Joe Leydon says:

    David: Since you, like me, are a theater geek, I’m sure you will appreciate this: God, what archery!

  56. Cadavra says:

    As someone who is a long-time friend of both Poland and Kenny, I really hate seeing the two of you at each other’s throats (or maybe someplace else). Can’t youse guys just agree to disagree, hug it out (metaphorically) and move along?

  57. David Poland says:

    I have no problem with that idea, Cad, nor have I ever. It is Glenn who, for whatever reasons, has felt compelled to go a rather nasty and personal (although he knows little about me) attack, here and in his own space, for months.
    Don’t know what started it. Don’t know the point. Don’t get the rage. Maybe he’ll explain it to you.

  58. IOIOIOI says:

    cautionbeatz i wore my 3-D glasses on em tonight…on sum after the final destination type ish….those my eyes low protecters..white boi goosed about 1 minute ago reply
    Seriously people. That’s the future of film criticism. Dave, Glenn, get the fuck over it, put on a parka, and GET OUT THERE! CAUTIONBEATZ CANNOT WIN! HE SIMPLY… CANNOT.. WIN!
    CRITICS… RISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  59. scooterzz says:

    q: what are farrah fawcett and michael jackson getting for christmas?
    a: patrick swayze
    there…that should take the heat off the dj am stuff…….

  60. Glenn Kenny says:

    Sorry Cad, no hugs. But just so you know, no actual rage, either. Poland just makes it so easy. He puffs himself up as the champion of the pure, the good, the smart and the true, and his actual output shows him up every time as a master of the slack, the prolix, the petty and the banal. (I’d add “the vulgar” and “the small-minded” but that would screw up my parallel construction, ya know.) That said, just because someone makes something easy doesn’t make the easy thing worth doing. Nothing I can say or do or demonstrate will make Poland hang it up, or for that matter, improve. So I think I’ll lay off the poor sod for a bit, although he creates magnificent fodder for my column at the Auteurs’. It just means I’ll have to work that much harder.

  61. anghus says:

    so much animosity in the online film world.
    does anyone actually like each other?

  62. Joe Leydon says:

    Anghus: Years ago, when I first entered academia, I was warned about Sayre

  63. anghus says:

    joe, my take on it has always veered towards the surreal. you’ve got this group of people who basically report 95% of the same content. Most of their ‘stories’ are still reported by Variety or Hollywood Reporter. The only difference between most content on online film sites is the particular personality of the individual running the site.
    There’s so little journalism going on, it’s basically a bunch of varying personalities. So when one starts talking shit about the other, it’s kind of hilarious. All these sites are so remarkably similar, yet the ‘personalities’ behind the sites have such contempt for one another when they’re basically commenting on the exact same stories.
    Most online film sites aren’t ‘reporting’ anything. They’re posting links and inserting their own opinion. So what exactly are they all fighting about. Most of these sites are equally unoriginal.
    My only problem is when these opinionated link posters get nasty or uppity. The ones who have reviewed bootlegs. The ones who play softball on studios they’re friendly with. I just get offended by a lack of standards or those with few standards pointing fingers at others.
    Sometimes when i read comments from people like Kenny (i have no idea who he is), i ask myself why they would frequent the website of someone they claim to have so much disdain for?

  64. Joe Leydon says:

    Anghus: I agree. I know I give David grief now and then — well, OK, more frequently than that — but I wouldn’t bother with criticism if I didn’t think that, overall, his enterprise is a worthy one. (It’s kinda-sorta like David’s own approach to the NY Times.) On the other hand, I have stopped commenting on sites for which I have not mere disdain, but contempt. Regrettably, however, there are some people who simply cannot take being ignored.

  65. David Poland says:

    The only problem I have with where this goes from here, Joe and Anghus, is that we get to this “you’re all the same, having the same fight” stuff. And that’s a little aggravating.
    All it takes on the web these days to turn something into a “feud” is one person writing about another person… over and over again.
    (The serious feuds never see the light of print… the real backstabbing in our little world of e-journalism makes the public spats look rather tame.)
    Glenn has chosen, for whatever reasons, to use me as a pinata in his blog. Fine. I didn’t even know he was doing it until someone pointed it out a couple of weeks ago. I went. I read. I was amazed that he was wasting his time trying so hard – a Patrick Goldstein specialty – to pull out a sentence here or there to try to define my idiocy, completely avoiding context. Lame. But not rare.
    Many on the web want to boil down what others actually write to what suits their purpose… even if it ends up utterly misstating the intent. Glenn is like a studio, except instead of looking for good pull-quotes, he looks for bad ones. And like a studio, he doesn’t much care whether they represent the intent of the writer.
    I definitely forget that other people think I am an object to be written about. When it hits me in the face, I take it the only way I know how to… if it’s constructive (positive or negative), I try to absorb it… if it’s not, I try to just take the compliment that someone thinks I require that kind of attention.
    I am the subject of Glenn’s schoolyard fatwa, not a party to some feud. I’m pretty sure that I have never written a negative word about Glenn Kenny, aside from these idiotic personal dust ups in here.
    Thus, my proctologist comment. Inflammatory… but I don’t think unfair.
    Please, Glenn… this poor sod is just fine with your level of attack. Keep it up as much as works for you. I’ve never had a problem hitting a softball out of the park… especially off pitchers who think they are throwing major league fastballs.

  66. anghus says:

    true. sometimes the arguements gets so nasty it’s hard to see any nuance. what glenn wrote about you was pretty nasty. and if it was unprovoked and he’s just using you as punching bag, well then fuck him.
    i don’t think i’d ever get pissed about how someone writes or their particular style. If someone is taking shots at you for being self indulgent or verbose… that’s a pretty immature stance.

  67. Joe Leydon says:

    One final comment, David: At the risk of summoning Candyman again, I don’t think it’s entirely accurate to say I’m involved in a “flame war” with anyone. That would imply the sort of ongoing war of words you’re talking about, right? And that would indicate a kind of, well, active engagement between two parties, correct?

  68. Glenn Kenny says:

    Good Christ. This is like being down the rabbit hole with the Red Queen, where ” the intent” of the writer is more important than what’s actually written…the mispellings, solecisms, logical lapses and all that don’t matter… because to criticize someone as being “self indulgent” or “verbose” is in itself “immature.” Because good writing doesn’t count. Apparently.
    You’ve never hit anything out of the park, you smug squint. I’ll give you a proper farewell at my next Auteurs’ column, and leave you to your claque. I just hope I never end up in the same room with you.

  69. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Kenny makes a move.
    Ladies Man – R. Price

  70. anghus says:

    i read the first paragraph 3 times.
    i still don’t understand what he’s trying to do.

  71. boltbucket says:

    It’s simple, Anghus.
    Glenn Kenny gets so worked up because David Poland has the writing flair and wit of a remedial English 9th grader, yet he’s constantly standing atop his mountain, pissing on the work of others.
    For a writer as talented as GK is – and if you haven’t read him, you really should – that is infuriating.
    When David describes himself as “a white suit in a shit storm” and envies Nikki Finke and others from afar, he’s really wondering why he doesn’t get as much attention from Old Media as others do. Even Jeff Wells, whatever you may think of him as a person, is a terrific wordsmith.
    David is a hack who could never cut it in the real world, where you have to be able to express your knowledge and opinion with at least the barest semblance of style, or at least proper grammar.
    But on the Internet, where opinion is the only thing that matters – and where anyone can post a crass and dispiringly ugly joke like the one that started this whole thread – he can coast on personality alone and amass more hits than variety.com.

  72. anghus says:

    thanks for fleshing that out bolt. i really didn’t get any of that from what he said.
    so basically kenny is angry that someone he perceives as a shitty wordsmith gets more attention than other “better” writers.
    he might be a “better” writer but he has way too much time on his hands.
    i write film reviews for a local arts magazine and i get a lot of responses from people who hate the fact that i have a ‘simple and unrefined’ style. they send me these, long, rambling emails going into detail about what a dolt i am and how i don’t ‘deserve’ the position i have. they read a lot like the stuff i’m seeing from Kenny.
    So, while i understand his point (thanks again), it’s pretty worthless. i should respect wells because he crafts a fine paragraph, rather than disrespect him for being a dick who exhibits insane behavior?
    this is good though. at least i’m learning the source of this friction. pretty trivial.
    So the hate towards heat is about the ratio of popularity to talent?

  73. boltbucket says:

    “so basically kenny is angry that someone he perceives as a shitty wordsmith gets more attention than other “better” writers.”
    That is not what I said.
    Let me try again: What pisses off/amuses GK (and I’m just guessing here) is Poland’s self-importance and arrogance toward other people’s work, despite the fact he is such a hack.
    Popularity has nothing to do with it. GK used to be the film critic for Premiere magazine. No one has heard of David Poland outside of regular readers of this blog and casual viewers of G4.

  74. errolmorrisfan says:

    I’m confused. So is Glenn Kenny actually mad at Poland, or is he just using this as an excuse to mention his “column at The Auteurs” a lot?

  75. David Poland says:

    See, that “boltbucket,” who has always been just as insightful and uninterested in a legitimate discussion of ideas as Glenn – and also shows up mostly to attack me – explains it so well. It’s all about how bad I am and how much better everyone else is. It’s all about my mighty personality that allows me to be a hack and to somehow get away with it.
    Waaaaaaaaaa…
    I am so sick of people who have never built anything on their own whining about what I have built over the last decade with hard f-ing work while not by being a gossip or a whore… people who have to take my words out of context to try to enforce their delusional ideas of my self-image.
    As far as media attention goes, I have little concern about it for myself. I am quoted plenty, thanks. But I do sometimes wonder why an internet-based business that has made good money for over 5 years, employs people who have been laid off my Old Media, has the attention of the film industry, and is used as a key resource by most of the journalists who cover the industry (including all the ones who hate me), doesn’t ever get written about while every start-up that comes along is a Big Story. Yeah. I do wonder.
    And then I realize that people don’t like being mocked in headlines and that laying off the media would get MCN more of that kind of media attention. Hell, I was told/offered this in no uncertain terms by someone at the LA Times.
    But I believe what I believe, for better or for worse. I have built this business on the standards I hold dear. They may not match your standards, but they are mine and they are real. And I turn grammar inside out when I feel so inclined. (waaaaa) Going along to get along is not what I do. (Either is programming content based on what page views it might garner.)
    Just because you would be happy to be a bloodsucking, destructive manipulator in order to be just like Nikki, “boltbucket,” doesn’t make me envious of her or others. It makes you envious of her and others.
    “The real world?” I am the real world, you yutz. I already have a working version of what most of Old Media is struggling to create. And if you think there is a long list of e-journalists in your idea of the real world (including some who you think I envy) who wouldn’t switch gigs with me tomorrow, you would be fooling yourself.
    Here’s the news, Glenn. Ideas count more than grammar. This has always been the case. It always will be the case.
    God knows, I would love to have the money to hire a copy editor who could work with me on everything I publish. But that salary would mean someone else – someone who writes – wouldn’t get an opportunity. “teh”s have not sunk the boat yet, so on I sail.
    I am here and have been here daily for 12 years, earning or losing an audience based exclusively on my ability to communicate with the reader. I never had a magazine or newspaper logo to hide behind in all of that time. I have only had my ideas, my knowledge, my reporting skills, and my ability to convey it all to a large number of people on a daily basis. I don’t do it in a conventional way, but hey… no one else but Army Archerd was doing a daily when I started. I made it up as I went along.
    And I will admit, sometimes I see my bad influence on other writers and I wince a bit. I don’t think I should be the standard as a writer. I am certainly not the standard of a journalist, because I believe in many of the conventions that I do not use in my work. There is a reason for “the rules.” But I have had a lot of success doing what I have done by instinct.
    I do what I do because I love it. And I have changed what I do because I fall in and out of love with some of it as life moves along. But I am pretty happy with most of what I do these days. And the bulk of that work is DP/30.
    Maybe you hate those too. Maybe you have never wasted the half hour to hear an idiot like me talk to film people, many of who are never going to get on NPR or Charlie Rose.
    I am 100% sure that you would have had a more intricate, detailed discussion with Jean-Jacques Beineix on his work that I did. But you know, I kinda liked what I got from him. And you know, I would probably like what you got from him if you were doing the interview. I don’t care about your hair, your weight, your use of more big words than me, or any of that other shit. I am interested in people and their ideas. And the details that might be more important to you than me… I can learn from hearing those. I only wish I had more hours in the day to consume more people’s output on a shared love of film.
    But wait… this is about how horribly stupid I am and my disgusting use of language… don’t let me get off topic.
    You’re a weak sister, Glenn. You get such joy attacking me and you’re giving it up over a blog comment fight? Way to hold that moral high ground, pal! What you were doing must have been really important.
    If only I could be more like you… then you would never have to read me every again… you wouldn’t be reading me now… because I would have long ago given up as soon as someone said, “boo.”
    Boo, mutherfucker. Boo hoo.

  76. anghus says:

    i still don’t understand why people would be here reading dave’s shit if they didn’t like and/or get something positive out of reading it. if someone loathes the guy, why are they popping up on his blog?
    it’s like that scene in Private Parts when the execs read the arbitron ratings and realize the people who hate Stern listen twice as much as the people who like him.
    i never understood that.

  77. Joe Leydon says:

    “Ideas count more than grammar. This has always been the case. It always will be the case.”
    Not necessarily, David. For some people — and, yes, I include myself in that number — it’s difficult to take altogether seriously someone who repeatedly makes grammatical mistakes. There’s always the sense that sloppy writing = slopping thinking. I’m sorry, but that’s just the way it is. I’m not saying this will make you, in the short run, any less popular. I’m not saying this diminishes what you have accomplished. But, if you really do wonder “why an internet-based business that has made good money for over 5 years, employs people who have been laid off my Old Media, has the attention of the film industry, and is used as a key resource by most of the journalists who cover the industry (including all the ones who hate me) doesn’t ever get written about while every start-up that comes along is a Big Story” — well, read those start-ups and count how many times you see “teh” on those start-ups. Yeah, I know: That’s not fair. But life isn’t fair.
    I am not your rival. (My blog gets, at best, 100 hits a day.) I am not jealous of your success. (Well, not much.) I am sure your first impulse is to respond to this with all sorts of insults about how I’m a has-been who never was. Or how I’m being condescending, or whatever. But please humor me for a moment, and ask yourself: If you could, wouldn’t you do better? A lot better?

  78. Joe Leydon says:

    And something else to consider: You often say you criticize The New York Times because you consider it to be the paper of record. Well, do you ever stop to think that — well, I cannot speak for anyone else, but some of us want you to be the best you can be? I mean, I’m the one who assigns students to read your stuff, for pity’s sake.

  79. Joe Leydon says:

    And yes, I see I made the mistake of “slopping thinking.” But, then again, this ain’t my blog.

  80. Glenn Kenny says:

    Wow, Poland. That was more enlightening than I think you even know.
    Just one thing: watch the way you throw around the word “motherfucker.” Seriously. (And don’t kid yourself that misspelling it makes it okay.)

  81. Glenn Kenny says:

    Also, just to clarify for Anghus: I’ve never been “mad” at, or about Poland. Put in movie terms, I suppose the closest thing to my actual attitude towards him can be found in “Mean Streets,” when DeNiro’s saying “So why do I come to you? Because you’re the only jerkoff I can borrow money from around here. Because that’s what I think of you. That’s what you are…” Etc.
    Oh, the humanity.
    Also: boltbucket, thanks for the kind words, and for taking the heat.
    Ciao.

  82. IOIOIOI says:

    Glenn, stop being a bitch. Your analogies suck. If you got a beef with the man. State your beef. If not; bugger off.

  83. Jack Walsh says:

    I was hoping my comments from last week would provoke a discussion about journalism/e-journalism, but apparently I’m not Leydon or Kenny, so I can’t get everyone this riled up. But man!-I would have never thought that it would turn out anything like this!! It took about two seconds for this to go from a serious discussion about ‘taste/inappropriate jokes’ to a discussion about butt warts!
    I myself criticized Dave for being wrong to make the joke (which I still stand by). However, I’m shocked at the professional journalists who have come forward to rack him over the coals for such a thing.
    I don’t expect anything serious to come from the blog commenters who are anonymous and can say whatever they want (full disclosure-I’m obviously the same as them), but from Leydon and Kenny-are you kidding me with your comments? Joe-would you be proud to learn that your students spend their nights and weekends criticizing people at random, and making stupid jokes on a blog? Are you tenured, or what? I can’t imagine that anyone who teaches a serious film class who doesn’t have immunity from being fired would come on this blog and make comments the way that you do, so openly. And for the record Joe-you pointed out my errors in grammar before, so I’m just gonna say “Ain’t ain’t a word and I ain’t gonna use it”. Welcome to kindergarten! Your teacher will be here in a few moments…
    Glenn-I was a big fan of your writing growing up when I had my ‘Premiere’ subscription. Do you have some past history with Dave that isn’t being explained here? I guess I’m not privileged enough to read the e-journalism gossip magazine, but it sure seems like something is going on behind the scenes, and if not, this whole argument seems really childish.
    Do I think the poll about DJ AM was in bad taste? Obviously, from what I wrote before…Do I think Dave sometimes has an ego in his writing?…Obviously, or I wouldn’t be reacting to his comments the way I did before. But outside of the professional media outlets, I don’t see Dave going after other e-journalists all that often (outside of Finke, who anyone who has a brain knows is questionable!).
    Again, is there some personal history between the three of you (I’m looking at you Glenn and Joe!)?
    I don’t even know who to blame for this whole debacle. You three can argue about the standards of the major newspapers all you want, but you can be damn sure that they would never let people that they employ make an argument like this public. Can you imagine a blog on the Times website where Patrick Goldstein trades insulting comments about butt warts with AO Scott, and if not, why the hell are any of you sinking to this level?
    I can’t help but think that if the three of you spent half as much time researching stories as you do sniping at each other, the newspaper industry might not be failing.
    If one of you wants to win the Pulitzer, you can write about how the internet was the downfall of the newspaper industry, because the good writers spent more time arguing with each other on their blogs than they did writing good stories!!!
    Dave and I may argue in this blog, but I didn’t expect an argument over bad taste to get to this point. Like I said last week-the ‘Super Friends’ gathering needs to have all the online film journalists get together and smoke a peace pipe. There probably won’t be any agreements, but maybe the winner would end up being ‘journalism’ in general.

  84. Joe Leydon says:

    “Joe-would you be proud to learn that your students spend their nights and weekends criticizing people at random, and making stupid jokes on a blog?”
    I’m sure some of them do much, much worse. And it’s really none of my goddamn business.
    “Are you tenured, or what? I can’t imagine that anyone who teaches a serious film class who doesn’t have immunity from being fired would come on this blog and make comments the way that you do, so openly.”
    Somehow, I think the people who sign my paychecks have more important things to do than police my blog postings.
    “Can you imagine a blog on the Times website where Patrick Goldstein trades insulting comments about butt warts with AO Scott, and if not, why the hell are any of you sinking to this level?”
    Hey, don’t look at me. I have never written anything about anyone’s (alleged) butt warts. Large butts? OK, I’ll cop to that. Butt warts? Never.
    “Again, is there some personal history between the three of you (I’m looking at you Glenn and Joe!)?”
    Well, you know, sometimes during those long, lonely nights on the film festival circuit when you’re far from home… and you’ve had enough to drink…
    “If one of you wants to win the Pulitzer, you can write about how the internet was the downfall of the newspaper industry, because the good writers spent more time arguing with each other on their blogs than they did writing good stories!!!”
    I think it’s a wee bit more complicated than that, sport.

  85. David Poland says:

    “I am sure your first impulse is to respond to this with all sorts of insults about how I’m a has-been who never was.”
    Uh, Joe… have I ever done that?
    I mesn, really… not sure I haven’t thrown some nasty idiot comment into some disagreement in a long run of exchanges with you, but I’m not here to tell you I have some edge on you. And I don’t appreciate you writing/speaking to me like I am some student of yours.
    “If you could, wouldn’t you do better? A lot better?”
    What does that even mean, Joe? I’m not writing in crayon. What is “a lot better?” “A lot better” at what?
    P.S. – Another empty half-ass threat, Glenn. Go peddle it somewhere else if that’s the best you can do. Thanks.

  86. Jack Walsh says:

    “Somehow, I think the people who sign my paychecks have more important things to do than police my blog postings.” I would hope that you don’t really believe that. You’re an educator of your students, whose tuition is paying your salary-it doesn’t matter who signs the paychecks-do you want to go into class tomorrow and teach them how to make insulting comments on the HotBlog? Teaching them that it is ok to sit on the outside and snipe at people who are attempting serious (if somewhat ego-driven at times) e-journalism, is just creating the LexG journalists/critics of the future (actually, it seems like Lex might have already graduated from the JL/GK ‘school of journalism’ for all I know!) “Hey, don’t look at me. I have never written anything about anyone’s (alleged) butt warts. Large butts? OK, I’ll cop to that. Butt warts? Never.” So, is there a week on the syllabus where you go over appropriate/inappropriate butt jokes? And if so, can you sign Glenn Kenny up for the seminar?(I’ll even show up to see you teach it!!)? And to your point-if you were an employee of the Times, and they found out about your butt jokes in any sort of blog, what do you think would happen? Would you still have a job, and if so, would you still ever dare be writing on the HotBlog again with those kind of references once they found out? Do you think that the standards of journalism are ‘lower’ on the web, and if so, how do you stop that? My first thought would be that professional journalists shouldn’t be caught on a blog having arguments about each others anus-regions!!!! This is exactly the conversation I’m trying to have about the future of journalism/e-journalism. You can call me ‘sport’ all you want, but at least I’m trying to find answers rather than sitting around talking about Dave’s fat ass (which I’ve never seen-and from pictures of you on Google…well, I won’t go there) “I think it’s a wee bit more complicated than that, sport.” I know that it is A LOT more complicated than that, but I’d like to at least have the conversation, without the ‘butt’ comments! Have you written an article about the foundations, changes, and future of e-journalism, because I cannot find one on a quick Lexus-Nexis search? You are a person who has been around long enough to have the perspective to write that article! Why haven’t you written it? If it is so complicated, where is your perspective laid out other than insulting blog comments to Poland? I challenge Dave, because I feel like he can fight back intelligently (and has been willing to do so). You should be one of the elder statesman around here if you are going to hang around this blog. I was trained as a journalist, but chose a different direction, but if I was a student of yours in any way, I would have a hard time taking you seriously if I read your blog comments, because you insult Dave any chance you get (and random commenters-this isn’t a shooting gallery)! At least take him on with facts as he challenged me to do!
    (And btw-I don’t mean to make this personal but you challenged me as well! But my laugh of the week ((and I guarantee it can’t be topped)) was Jeff Wells attack on you-he is “one very hard-working, constantly-exhausted, burning-the-candle-at-both-ends journalist to another”! I guess I learned that it must be exhausting to write about how frustrated you are with other people all day, how actors and actresses are fat, and how you just can’t tolerate another day at a film festival (where they pay for you to show up) without wireless internet. I mean, I only work 14 hours a day, and I spend the rest of my time responding to stupid internet comments (which is my decision)-wanna switch places Jeff Wells? I have a lot to say about how fat some of the asses of the actresses are getting in Hollywood these days!!!
    But back to you Joe-99% of the people reading this blog have no idea about your festival history with both Dave and Kenny, so if you want to make inside jokes, use your e-mail accounts, and don’t make it public. What do you have to gain out of this other than gaining the respect of the regular HotBlog posters (and why is that valuable to you)? If that is how you get your kicks, well…I guess I won’t mess with Texas, because I can’t win! But seriously-you’re molding the minds of a generation of filmmakers/critics, and you’re arguing about butt jokes, on a random blog, that you claim your students don’t even read (do they not like movies, or what)?? I’m not going to tell you to grow up, because that doesn’t seem to work well around here, but grow a pair and show up with some facts! Dave might have the biggest ass in all of California, but unless you post a picture on the blog, I can’t take you seriously anymore! :) And Dave-you’re spending your time arguing with a guy who makes a distinction between ‘butt warts’ and ‘fat butt’ jokes, and you’re telling me that I need to make better arguments? Now do you know why I end up posting on this blog, insanely frustrated? I feel like I’m Tony Soprano and Journey has just started playing in the background-I most likely won’t be around for much longer….

  87. Joe Leydon says:

    Er, Jack: Mine is the fat ass that has been… sorry, can’t word it any other way… the butt of jokes around here. Not David’s. Mine. You’re coming a little late to the party, sport.
    And speaking of asses: Do you have a hard time walking arond with that stick shoved up yours? I mean, the remark about festivals and me and David and Glenn was… er… how can I put this? A FREAKIN’ JOKE, YOU CLOTH-EARED TWIT! Geez.
    Look, I already owe David an apology for summoning Candyman, so I figure now isn’t the time to take advantage of his hospitality by getting into a pissing match with someone in his living room. And, frankly, you appear to be ignorant of some very basic concepts — like, for instance, academic freedom — so I can’t see what is to be gained by having a private e-mail conversation with you. So let me end this by addressing a few of your questions. (David, I promise, I will endeavor to be as polite as possible.)
    “If you were an employee of the Times, and they found out about your butt jokes in any sort of blog, what do you think would happen?” Nothing. “Would you still have a job, and if so, would you still ever dare be writing on the HotBlog again with those kind of references once they found out?” Yes and yes. Back in the day — i.e., 1982-95 — when I was at The Houston Post, I poped up sporadically as a guest on what we’d now call shock-jock radio shows. My editors were grateful for the publicity. Seriously.
    “Have you written an article about the foundations, changes, and future of e-journalism, because I cannot find one on a quick Lexus-Nexis search?” No, I haven’t written such an article. Because writing is not my hobby, it is my profession. If I write something that substantial, I expect to get paid for it. I’ve made $1,000 for 750-word Q&A interviews for Cowboys & Indians Magazine. (No brag, just fact. I think that’s why the publisher figured it would be cheaper to give me a fll-time gig.) I would want a lot more for the kind of piece you’re talking about.
    Any other qestions?

  88. Joe Leydon says:

    Sorry about that last typo. For some reason or another, the “U” on this netbook is none too reliable.

  89. The Big Perm says:

    This thread is like that Godzilla movie where all of the monsters you’ve been watching for years in their own movies meet on Monster Island and shoot eye lasers at each other.
    In other words: cool.

  90. Joe Leydon says:

    Can I be Godzilla? He has a big ass, too.

  91. The Big Perm says:

    I think you’re more like Mothra. She has a big ass, but it’s also fuzzy.

  92. Joe Leydon says:

    And you think my ass is fuzzy because…?

  93. The Big Perm says:

    THINK it, Leydon?
    Or…KNOW it?

  94. LexG says:

    Jack Walsh:
    I have three college degrees and about a ZILLION minors and concentrations, and of those is an English Writing minor with a JOURNALISM concentration.
    HERE COMES THE SLAM.

  95. christian says:

    This is like a bad Godzilla movie though.

  96. LYT says:

    The only bad Godzilla movie is the Emmerich one.

  97. Glenn Kenny says:

    Lest anyone get the wrong idea, I should confess that it was I, and not Mr. Leydon, who broke out the “butt” “jokes.” In my defense, these remarks were prompted by Mr. Poland’s description of me as his “proctologist.” Just to set the record straight.
    And now I again bid thee adieu.

  98. Jack Walsh says:

    Joe-I think I’m going to refer to you as Gatsby from now on. The whole ‘sport’ reference is oh so charming.
    Do I have more questions? Um, yes, but I don’t have time right now so I’ll be back.
    Try and keep your ‘butt’ in line while I’m gone.

  99. Triple Option says:

    In most cases I’d stay out of this kind of scuffle that’s spiraled into senseless name calling but if it’s true that my post represents 1 to 2 thousand people, I’d like to give my peeps a vote…since we’re clearly in the minority.
    I didn’t think there was anything wrong w/the poll question. I’m not gonna try to spin it to say the real villain is showing how far corp owned studios would go to shamelessly market their product, cuz that’s bs but I thought it mildly amusing. I had heard other read/heard other people talk about the whole Final Destination thing so I guess there was no real chance for me to be “shocked” by it.
    I’ll admit, I have a dry sense of humor so maybe reacting a bit out of having to apologize for some people’s hair trigger sensibilities. When I read jokes like from scooterzz I bust out loud. (Big ups, man).
    Would I be laughing if DJ AM were my brother? I can’t see how. But, he’s not my brother. No, I don’t harbor contempt for him. I don’t think “he got what he deserved.” I have a do have a general amount of disconnect from having never met the guy and knowing very little about him. I don’t think I’m particularly callous in being able to see the irony of the events. Nor do I believe laughing at a joke precludes someone from feeling empathy for surviving family members.
    Hey, I’ve gotten upset over tragedies in the world and ranted about them over the interwebs but I’ve also done something (tried to) about them. I think, in general, it’s a trap to mistake pity for actual solutions.
    Which brings me to a question I really would like to post. NOT going particularly after anyone(s) specifically said here but there is a re-occurring pattern and theme of people getting highly upset at “the level of this blog.” Whether it’s an insensitive post or criticism or mundane topic, sensational topic, ill behaved posters or the like, there seems to plenty to say all things are beneath Dave or this blog. My question would be is the blog or curator sunk to an unacceptable level or are you in your self righteous, egotistical view of yourself think you are so self important that you can’t be a part of the great unwashed.
    “I’m so smart! Look at me, Mr Neverwrong Fancy Pants posting my eggs of sage to grace the intellectuals on The Hot Blog. Hey, wait, how did this picture of a starlet in lingerie get in here?! Uh, how dare someone share a personal anecdote here?! Hmpt, if I don’t start seeing some post baccalaureate degrees from Ivys, I am leaving!!”
    Seriously, self evaluation. Do you think you may need to consider that you need to get over yourself? Maybe not. I can respect people for calling when things get out of line. I’m just saying that maybe the only real problem is in personal perception.
    And sorry for taking so much space in writing but I wanted to defend from possible injections between the lines of things I am not saying. Maybe I am only speaking for myself here, that’s fine. But I’m also able to skip over stuff and not constantly get in flame wars. Maybe I’ve learned to keep my ego in check and/or move on.

  100. christian says:

    “Do you think you may need to consider that you need to get over yourself?”
    A blog is about the worst place to pose this question.

  101. Jack Walsh says:

    TO-I don’t think that you are wrong in your sentiments. However, do you think it makes ethical sense for Dave (or anyone) to be able to call out the NyTimes for their ‘alleged’ violations on journalism one day, and then make light of the death of a faux-celebrity the next? Doesn’t there seem like a logical disconnect in that argument?
    Wouldn’t you say that in the blog world, you should either go high-concept (criticizing the NyTimes and LATimes, and staying out of the celebrity gossip crap) or you go low-concept (making fun of the death of a pseudo-celeb, and being willing to make light of anything related to anyone who has been on Access Hollywood in the last few days). How is that poll not low-concept? And the fact that a bunch of people who never knew who that guy was might find it funny make it ok?
    How many respectable journalists can you name who are in the middle of what I just defined? Is there a middle?-I guess that’s what I’m after with my questions. I feel like Dave (and Joe and Glenn, and everyone else who covers Hollywood) tries to have it both ways sometimes, and I’ve been trying to call that out when I see (or at least in my opinion see it.)
    ((Point blank, and I know Dave is going to hate this repeated again-but LexG has been the biggest cause of problems on this blog since it has existed (he got a Gawker post because of it!). And Dave’s final answer to the problem, after banning him multiple times, was to give him a column, on his own flagship website! When that happened, I felt like Howell Raines had just resigned from the Times, started up a fishing/hunting magazine, and designated Jayson Blair as his editor. Journalism ethics went out the door on MCN when Dave gave LexG a column!))
    TO-You see the poll question about DJ AM as ok because there is a sense of irony, but you still wonder if you would be ok with it if he was your brother? Doesn’t the fact that you have doubts make you think “Maybe Dave shouldn’t written that!”. If you become successful in some field, and suddenly become a public figure, do you think your family members would be ok with such a poll after you had years of drug problems, and ended up overdosing?
    The whole point isn’t that Dave shouldn’t have written that one particular joke (although I still contend it was in terrible taste). The point is that you can’t have a blog history, and not think about how what you are writing today, reflects against what you have criticized others for writing in the past.
    And when I make comments like “Dave-you’re better than that”, I don’t make them lightly. And TO-you’re telling people that maybe they’re taking themselves too seriously in the same post that you’re thinking out loud “I don’t know if I would be ok with Dave making that poll about my own brother”. How would you feel if you were his brother, and came on this blog to see this poll? Would you still feel like anyone who said “that is wrong” is pulling a ‘holier than thou’ routine?
    I don’t know….maybe this argument should die, and we can all move on to fight another day. Jack Walsh…OUT!!!!

  102. LexG says:

    Jack Walsh: Get off my ballsack, bitch.
    Never mention me again, or get ready to feel the fucking wrath, toolbag.

  103. Joe Leydon says:

    Jack: One minor cavil: I don’t cover Hollywood. I review movies, write interviews and features for MovieMaker and other publications, teach film studies courses, do on-stage Q&As and write program notes at film festivals and, occasionally, on my blog, make what I hope is informed commentary. I don’t mean that to sound snarky or condescending to those who do cover the film industry on a regular basis because, frankly, that is a worthy calling and a demanding craft. David and Nikki and my collegaues at Variety do this much better than I could ever hope to do. You see — and I know you hate this term — I live in Flyover Country. I do not meet and greet film industry folks on a daily basis. For about five minutes a few years back, IndieWire and I thought it might be a nifty idea if I did a column on the indie film biz. But within weeks, if not days, we mutually agreed that, to put it bluntly, I was too far out of the loop to do that effectively and/or consistently. Of course, there are times when I get it right, and David doesn’t, in terms of box-office or Oscar predictions. But, then again, just about everybody who posts here can say pretty much the same thing. On a day to day basis, however, he’s in the trenches, and we’re in the bleachers. That doesn’t exempt him from criticism. But, as I said in a diffreent thread, he must be doing something right.

  104. jeffmcm says:

    “Journalism ethics went out the door on MCN when Dave gave LexG a column”
    How long has it been since Lex’s column was active?

  105. LexG says:

    Eagle-eyed readers might have noticed I never “had a column” in any official capacity, and I never claimed to nor expected one. Poland ran some writing pieces and was a mensch to give me a shot (which I’ve surely squandered, and that’s on me if so), but some dudes (like Walsh above) act like Poland gave me some keys to kingdom or put me on some exalted level with the real-deal pros who work here. The pieces that ran were usually if not always prefaced as something of an “experiment” or giving a venue to a passionate guy with something to say.
    I don’t know why Walsh has a bone to pick with me, or with Poland for giving me a shot. And again, I probably have more Journalism experience and background than whoever “Jack Walsh” is.

  106. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Anyone else pick up Kenny’s overt threats of violence to Poland?
    This cuntnut needs to be taught some manners. Don’t come round here and bang your ugly chest and threaten DP with violence for simply defending himself.
    What a fucking tool you are. What an ugly cumquat. Fuck off you ape. Go back and cahier all over your blog some more.
    You’re jealous of Poland. We all get it. There’s no need to physically threaten the guy.

  107. Jack Walsh says:

    Lex-I’m shaking in my boots. I look forward to the ‘wrath’ of a 1000-word rant about what a ‘toolbag’ I am, and then another 500 words about how you’re going to kill yourself because you can’t get into K-Stew’s pants. Oh, and make sure it’s in all caps so I get extra scared!
    You probably do have more ‘journalism experience’ than me, if you consider all your ridiculous rants ‘journalism experience’. You’ve probably got 100k+ words alone on this blog.
    Dave can run whatever columns he wants on his website, but I don’t think it’s ethically right to run the columns (doesn’t matter if he was paying you-it’s representing his brand) of someone he has banned for over-the-top/ridiculous blog posts, and then criticize people at the level of the NyTimes/LATimes writers at the same time. He can’t have it both ways! Does anyone on this website think that he ran your columns for any other reason than to provoke shock from the regular blog posters? If the Times started running comments sections on their articles, how much crap do you think they would take if they ended up giving someone a ‘shot’ or a ‘column, or whatever you want to call it, to the likes of you?
    And Joe-just to be a dick before I go for the day, because you have been more than eager to do so to me and others-it’s ‘colleagues’. Maybe Dave isn’t the only person who should hire a proofreader. After all, according to your own words, you aren’t too busy covering Hollywood…

  108. Joe Leydon says:

    Actually, I misspelled “different,” too. And yes, it’s true: You are a dick.

  109. jeffmcm says:

    Re: JBD’s last post – No. I just reviewed all of Glenn Kenny’s posts on this thread and there are no threats of violence, overt or otherwise. There’s a lot of bile and chest-pounding and a couple too many mentions of The Auteurs, but no threats of any kind.

  110. LexG says:

    The best part about Jack Doush’s recent flurry of Poland-provoking bullshit is how Jack unveils some multi-paragraph, passive-aggressive shot at DP, David cunningly and disarmingly owns the douche with like one sentence, then Walsh BACKTRACKS, half apologizes, backs down, pretends it’s all cool and he’s just a blowhard.
    Then six hours later he does the same thing all over.

  111. Jack Walsh says:

    “Jack Walsh: Get off my ballsack, bitch.
    Never mention me again, or get ready to feel the fucking wrath, toolbag”
    Lex-I’m still not feeling the wrath. And my response this time was not only aimed at Dave, so if you want to ‘bring it’, you might want to defend yourself instead of talking about how much Dave is gonna “P’OWN” me in the future. I think Dave can speak for himself if he wants to.
    Joe-I’ll be sure to turn on my spell check next time so I catch all your errors. And by the way, we’re definitely co-members of the ‘dick club’-we should plan the next meeting together! I’m going to be in Austin in October-wanna meet up?. Hopefully I don’t have to start using the ‘ass’ insults to retain my membership, because I don’t know if I’m prepared to go there.

  112. Joe Leydon says:

    Er, Jack: You do know that Austin is about a three-hour drive from Houston, right?

  113. Jack Walsh says:

    Joe-from what I understand, you aren’t busy covering Hollywood at the moment, so can’t you at least meet me in the middle? :)

  114. Joe Leydon says:

    LexG: Do I have to pay a royalty to you for using that line?

  115. Jack Walsh says:

    Yeah-spending time on this blog seems to be a full-time hobby for me too these days. Can I get a raincheck?

  116. christian says:

    You can’t make it to the AFF in October because it’s GASP three hours from that hell-hole Houston?
    Nobody’s THAT busy.

  117. Joe Leydon says:

    OK, I can’t believe that anyone out there is really all that interested in my life — that’s why I don’t Twitter all that much — so most of you likely will just want to skip ahead to the next posting. But between writing and teaching, I’m currently working the equivalent of two full-time jobs. (Two full-time jobs that wind up paying the equivalent of one, or maybe two-thirds of one, but two full-time jobs nonetheless.) So it’s a tad difficult for me to simply take time off to meet total strangers, or even attend film festivals. Hell, I’m often late when it comes to simply keeping up with current theatrical releases. Right now, I’m lucky to be able to attend SXSW, Toronto, Nashville and Denver. It would very diffiuclt to add yet another festival to that list. And, frankly, it’s been a very long time since anyone was interested in paying me to cover AFF. I don’t mean that to sound snarky — no one’s offered to pay me to cover Cannes or Berlin or Montreal, either — but them’s the facts, Jack. (And Christian.)

  118. christian says:

    Fair enough. I was just joshin’ with you. I won’t even be at the AFF in October. But I might. I miss Austin.

  119. don lewis (was PetalumaFilms) says:

    I’ll be at AFF! Can’t wait….I’m even a juror. Hope to see some folks there. Oh, wait….was this some kind of calling out at the bike racks afterschool kind of thing? In that case, my bad. (but I will be there 10/22-26)

  120. Joe Leydon says:

    Gosh, it’s been three hours and I haven’t been busted yet for misspelling “difficult.”

  121. Triple Option says:

    Jack Walsh wrote: TO-You see the poll question about DJ AM as ok because there is a sense of irony, but you still wonder if you would be ok with it if he was your brother?

  122. Kim Voynar says:

    Urg. Been a little absorbed in other things the past several days, but I have to chime in on the side of folks who found this particular poll in bad taste. From my perspective, it’s WAY judgemental (and blindly so) to generalize all people who have or do abuse drugs like this. People use mind or mood altering substances for a reason, very often not just because they want the “high” but because they are trying to self-medicate away pain, be in physical or emotional.
    We have no idea what kind of issues Adam Goldstein, or Heath Ledger, or MJ, or any other person who uses drugs is really dealing with or WHY they use or abuse those substances. But there’s just about always a reason behind it, if we can cast aside our tendency to judge and put empathy in its place.
    Was MJs death more “assisted suicide” than murder? Probably, but that doesn’t make it any less tragic to me. People commit suicide, whether slowly or quickly, because they are in tremendous pain. There’s nothing funny about other people hurting, especially other people hurting to the extent that they end their own lives. And I say this as someone who’s faced depression that came dangerously close to spiraling to that level.
    Not funny. Not fodder for a joke. Sorry.

  123. Jack Walsh says:

    TO-Can I just add to Kim’s points. You can’t be criticizing other journalists, and then make the claim “well, it’s Hollywood journalism, so you know-don’t get too worked up about it”. I obviously don’t hold Dave to the same standards as I would, say, Billy Bush, because there are no standards with the latter. But if Dave is going to hold other journalists to the standards that I expect out of of any type of journalism, then I am going to call him out when I feel like he is slumming. Otherwise, what’s the point of me reading this blog?
    “I ain

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