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David Poland

By David Poland poland@moviecitynews.com

Hot Button – Batting Around Titanic Numbers

Is it anything less than a dereliction of duty, whether it be Horn’s choice or his editors’ choice, to not even mention the worldwide box office success of Titanic, which really is what makes the box office landmark the equal of what

80 Responses to “Hot Button – Batting Around Titanic Numbers”

  1. Martin S says:

    Dave – isn’t the difference that Titanic went uphill from week to week and stayed there for, what, two months? TDK is front-loaded, like Pirates and Spidey.
    I think the comparison exists because TDK is not popcorn friendly and has a heavy vibe, like Titanic. In other words, LOTR/Pirates/Spidey/Star Wars money is light-n-fluffy melodrama that can pull from a wide LCD, but TDK and Titanic are reaching deep into specific demographics that no other film in its genre has done. IMO.

  2. IOIOIOI says:

    Titanic is like Barry Bonds. It may have the number, but it does not count. Somebody, put an asterik on those DVDs!
    Oh yeah… DVD sales for that movie pretty much state in spades it was roid raged fueled movie, that had a soft Spring.

  3. Blackcloud says:

    Sith and LOTR generally weren’t exactly “light-n-fluffy.”

  4. Reynoldz says:

    TITANIC is like Barry Bonds? What an idiotic comment.
    IO: Are you a twelve year old? You don’t have to admire TITANIC to acknowledge how amazing its run was. I spent eight years as a theater employee and never saw anything like what TITANIC did.
    You can prefer TDK to TITANIC but don’t try to rewrite history.

  5. Kristopher Tapley says:

    “I spent eight years as a theater employee…”
    I wouldn’t give people this kind of ammunition…

  6. IOIOIOI says:

    Let’s diagnose this shit like Dick Van Dyke! DIAGNOSIS POST NOW!
    TITANIC is like Barry Bonds? What an idiotic comment.
    “IO: Are you a twelve year old?”
    What the fuck did 12 year-olds do to get such slanderish attacks? I will never understand what they did to get such horrible treatment from rather MATURE internet posters. Who are trying to slam other supposedly IMMATURE internet posters.
    So… let’s clarify: it’s an INFLATED RECORD. It’s a BULLSHIT record much like Barry Bonds home-runs. They are statistically real, but Titanic was aided by Hollywood ceasing to give a crap over the first few months of 97. Excuse me for finding both records in need of an asteriks.
    “You don’t have to admire TITANIC to acknowledge how amazing its run was. I spent eight years as a theater employee and never saw anything like what TITANIC did.”
    I remember going to the theatre at the time, and it was a pathetic time to go to the cinema. One movie got to reign for few months as people clamoured to get away from it, but Hollywood did not throw us a life jacket. So boo on them.
    “You can prefer TDK to TITANIC but don’t try to rewrite history.”
    Rewriting history? What HISTORY? A movie that is almost universally dismissed holds a record, that it holds out of sheer Hollywood exec stupidity. A record that most people tend to give Gone With the Wind anyway. Why? People still like that movie.

  7. Jeremy King says:

    So, Mr. Poland, when you wrote in your Dark Knight review that “From a purely business angle, this film will absolutely be limited by its content” you meant that it will be limited in terms of not making as much money as Titanic, right? You’re like a mystical box-office fortune teller!

  8. tjfar67 says:

    Without being snarky or sarcastic, my favorite feature of the Hot Button is when Dave crunches the numbers.

  9. ployp says:

    My sister and I saw Titanic 3 times in the theater! That record has yet to be broken. If I recall correctly, the theater was at least 80 percent full, which is a rare thing in Bangkok. Looking back, I don’t understand why I did that.

  10. Reynoldz says:

    “I wouldn’t give people this kind of ammunition…”
    In my defense I was in high school, college, and grad school. A brother has got to make some chedda.
    “A movie that is almost universally dismissed holds a record”
    Dismissed by whom? Anonymous Internet film geeks? Either way, any film that holds in #1 position for fifteen weeks cannot be discounted so easily. The Spring film slate in 1998 may have been weak (Blues Brothers 2000, f’n Krippendorf’s Tribe), but that doesn’t change the fact that people kept showing up week after week, time after time to watch that movie. And it wasn’t just staying on top because nothing was grossing anything; the film’s weekly gross was staying consistent. I’m not defending the film as great; I’m just pointing out that just because you like TDK better doesn’t change facts.
    Also, I suspect that your understanding of the word slander is about as accomplished as your grammar skills.

  11. leahnz says:

    i like ‘titanic’.
    if i recall, it was knocked off it’s #1 high horse at the US box office by the ‘lost in space’ movie, of all things

  12. jeffmcm says:

    The simple fact is that Titanic expanded the marketplace by a huge amount during its 1998 run, which means people were consciously seeking it out and not just deciding to go to the theaters and finding nothing else that they wanted to see.
    For example, the weekend of Mar. 27-29, 1998, the last weekend Titanic was #1 at the box office, the top ten movies made about $66 million. One year later, the same weekend, the top ten makes about $52 million.

  13. leahnz says:

    jeff, was i right about ‘lost in space’? i have lazy finger syndrome and it sounds like you were already on one of the box office sites

  14. LexG says:

    Wedding Singer opened to 21 mil its first weekend in February. Is it possible that was higher than Titanic’s take that weekend.
    I am appalled in retrospect that Replacement Killers could not stop the juggernaut.

  15. LexG says:

    Oops, nope… Per Variety, Titanic beat Wedding Singer something like 38 (!!!!) to 25 that weekend.

  16. leahnz says:

    wow, i actually got something to do with box office right! ‘wikipedia’ backs me up, with titanic slipping to #2 the week of 5 april 08 after its epic reign, with ‘lost in space’ coming in at # 1. just tootin’ my own horn, so seldom do i get to do it. toot, toot. middle-age memory loss be damned

  17. Martin S says:

    Blackcloud -I see your point in regards to subject material but I was referring to critical opinion and not my personal perspective or storyline. When writers refer to Mann films as the next closest kin to TDK, they are saying it has drama, whereas this was only said about Fellowship and not the LOTR sequels, nor any of the Star Wars movies.

  18. “Looking back, I don’t understand why I did that.”
    Because it was and still is a good movie, perhaps.
    Jesus christ. I hate having to defend the bloody highest grossing movie of all time, but it seems I have to regularly. A movie doesn’t make $1.8b, win 11 oscars (or however many) because people were bored of everything else at the cinema. Sure, some feelings may have been inflated at the time by the likes of younger girls who were lusting after Leo, but it’s still a great movie. The final hour is surely amongst some of the greatest filmmaking ever.
    I don’t know why people deny that they loved a movie so much as they do with Titanic. Who cares if the geek patrol laughs at you from behind their monitors?

  19. hcat says:

    I think it is pretty obvious that he was simply talking about domestic box office, which is what newspaper readers would be interested in. It is really only the inside baseball people who read sites like these that care about international numbers (and of course the studios who count the money). This could be incredibly close and it would be significant if the domestic title fell (for one thing the slot has never been held by a sequal before).
    And while I loved Dark Knight and disliked Titanic (though I haven’t seen it since the first viewing in the theater). I dont see Dark Knight having the cultural impact that Titanic had. People’s fervor for that movie at the time makes IOIO’s TDK salivating look like bored indifferance. Everyone I knew under the age of 25 immediatly listed it as their favorite movie, my 45 year old boss didn’t get around to seeing it until March, and then would sneak out twice a week for the next four weeks to catch a matinee. The soft spring was common in the 90s and all the films had the same playing field so saying Titanic’s number is artifically inflated is as goofy as saying TDK’s second weekend wasn’t impressive since it was only going up against Step Brothers.

  20. jesse says:

    Kami, I agree — Titanic-bashing is pretty silly, and a lot of the actual filmmaking (which is separate from “dialogue-writing,” no matter how many nerds try to simplify it) is stunning. I think even attributing its $600 mil to “teenage girls,” as is often the case, is pretty silly. Obviously they contributed valuable repeat business, but movies don’t make $600 mil off the obsessions of a narrow demo. Grandmas and grandpas were going to see this thing, too.
    Given that it never had a big-scale re-release (though I think I recall the theater count was increased substantially around late summer or early fall ’98) and has maintained that #1 spot over more than a decade’s worth of inflation and massive frontloading, Titanic is the *last* box-office record that should have an asterisk next to it! It made $600 freaking million! That’s not 600 mil after inflation, that’s not 600 mil after three different releases over several different eras, that’s not the biggest extended holiday-weekend cash grab ever followed by a couple of weeks of respectable business. (And that’s not to say that 600 mil adjusted for inflation or sustained popularity over multiple releases isn’t impressive, too.) $600 mil domestic is a phenom. As David says, the record will fall eventually. But pretending “nobody likes Titanic” or that its pole position doesn’t count or something is nuts.

  21. hcat says:

    And obsessive that I am I compared Titanic’s numbers with 1999′s spring as well. It would have taken every corresponding weekend with the exception of one (being about half million behind Analyze this) until being permentaly unseated the same April weekend by the Matrix.

  22. IOIOIOI says:

    Reynoldz: you spell like Flava Flav and give me shit about grammar? I do believe a lurker decided to step, but you got slammed the fuck down like everyone else. So… hush.
    Also, seriously, Titanic is a piece of crap. This has nothing to do with TDK, but everything to do with tripe making so much money. People still REFER TO FUCKING GONE WITH THE WIND AS BEING THE ALL-TIME HIGHEST GROSSING FILM! Why do they do that? Huh. I wonder. Could it be that it is? Possibly. Could it also be that Gone With the Wind truly is a masterpiece and Titanic is a piece of crap? Could be. Could be.
    So if you like that piece of crap movie. Congrats on liking such a tiresome piece of crap. If you are like most of the moviegoing public, and cannot figure out how that piece of crap still holds that record. Well, remember, those same teenage girls brought back boy bands and bought into Britney Spears. Thus making Titanic nothing more than the film equivalent of a fucking BOY BAND!
    Seriously, do you think people do that for

  23. Rob says:

    The Dark Knight’s second-weekend drop of about half was considered a testament to its incredible word-of-mouth.
    Titanic, meanwhile, made more money in its fifth weekend than its first. The game has changed too much – even movies with legs can’t really have legs anymore. Titanic is probably the last one forever.

  24. Jeremy King says:

    IO, I can understand having issues with the Screenplay and Casting of TITANIC….but I don’t think it’s a piece of crap simply because it drew a certain audience. It’s an extremely well made piece of entertainment. Does it deserve to be the #1 grossing movie of all time? Probably not. Personally, I liked the Dark Knight better than Titanic. But I also liked the movie Seven better than The Dark Knight. So maybe Seven should be the all-time box office leader.

  25. jesse says:

    I realize it’s probably pointless to argue this with you, IO, but the reason people refer to Gone with the Wind as the highest-grossing movie ever is that if you adjust for inflation, it *is* the highest-grossing movie ever. People have played the “but with inflation, this other movie is bigger” game for years, well before Titanic came onto the scene. People flip back and forth between dollars and tickets/inflation, domestic and worldwide, blah blah blah. I don’t think it has anything to do with how “people” in general feel about the movie. For awhile when Jurassic Park made a crapload of money worldwide, I heard it referred to as the highest-grossing movie ever, even though E.T. was still bigger domestically. Was that because of some kind of groundswell of overall dislike/distaste for E.T.?
    (And if you play the inflation game, I believe Titanic is solidly into the top 20, which is more than you can say for most recent 300/400 million grossers that you’d probably characterize as “better-liked” movies.)

  26. The Big Perm says:

    IO, tell us why Titanic is a piece of crap so I can call your comments “nitpicking!”

  27. yancyskancy says:

    jesse makes a good point about filmmaking vs. “dialogue-writing.” I’m amazed at how many people, even in the industry, don’t seem to understand what screenwriting entails. On occasion, I’ve referred to a film as well-written, only to have someone say, “Really? I didn’t think the dialogue was all that special.” As though story, plot, theme, action and all the rest are somehow not part of the screenwriter’s job. Sheesh.
    IO, unless you’re sitting on some statistical survey that shows what percentage of Titanic viewers loved, liked, dismissed or loathed it, I don’t see how your assertion means much. Like any big event, word of mouth hit, Titanic undoubtedly drew a lot a folks who went only to see what all the fuss was about. That’s always a recipe for backlash. You make it sound like the film’s success was a case of mass hysteria from which we’ve all now awakened, feeling butt-raped by Cameron. :)

  28. Geoff says:

    Titanic is a singular phemenon, for sure, and no film is likely to pass it domestically for some time – The Dark Knight has an outside shot at $500 million, but even that is unlikely since it will run into the Olympics, next week.
    I happen to like Titanic and am amazed how so few are willing to admit they like it, today, even the non-geeks. No doubt, the film had a huge backlash, probably driven as much by the omni-present Celine Dion song and James Cameron’s behavior as anything else.
    But that does not take away from how popular it was at the time and the impact it had on Hollywood – for years after, the studio’s pushed a significant young-love element in the marketing of all of their blockbusters, no matter how awkward the fit – look at the marketing of Armageddon just that following example as a prime example. Ben Affleck and Liv Tyler canoodling was a key part of that campaign, as much as the giant asteroid. You saw this same kind of emphasis in the campaigns for Pearl Harbor, Spiderman, The Hulk, Batman Begins, etc. – after Titanic, even though Hollywood still didn’t dramatically increase their output for films geared towards females, they never forgot again to at least try to target young females in their campaigns.
    Also, seems like nowadays, backlashes are occurring earlier and earlier – it’s getting ridiculous and it’s happending with The Dark Knigth. The backlash began several weeks before the film even opened. With Juno, it was even sillier in that the film had a backlash going for months before it reached wide release. Amazingly, it doesn’t seem to have an effect on the legs of those films.

  29. LexG says:

    I seriously doubt the OLYMPICS are going to slow the juggernaut. Hell, the OLYMPICS aren’t even going to affect the ratings of Ghost Whisperer reruns.
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE in America cares about the Olympics. NO. ONE.
    I don’t even know why they still have the Olympics at all. They should just stop that shit.

  30. Triple Option says:

    Maybe I need to see Titanic again. Here I was thinking it was merely “meh” but it seems like more than a few people really want to love up on it.
    I thought you could’ve swapped out the cast w/the characters from a Dudley Do-Right cartoon and no one would’ve missed a thing. Yeah sure it had technical merit but there’s a reason why the compulsory portion of figure skating was removed, it cannot stand alone.
    Personally, I ain’t mad at Titanic for making all that money. I didn’t have a single disturbed night of sleep because it won all those awards. I’ll come right out and say, I don’t get it but the lack of nomination for best screenplay does say something.
    I would think a film that blows other film receipts out of the water and took home double digit oscars would be held in higher regard, like say Pyscho, Casablanca, Star Wars, Citizen Cane or The Searchers.

  31. EthanG says:

    Maybe not earth shattering, but it’s borderline earth shattering that a film this dark is going to get to $500 million domestic.
    And DP, the fact is a movie has already done Titanic numbers worldwide…Gone With the Wind, the #1 film of all time…adjusted for inflation.

  32. repeatfather says:

    “Maybe I need to see Titanic again. Here I was thinking it was merely “meh” but it seems like more than a few people really want to love up on it.”
    I was only 15 when it came out, but I really liked it at the time. However, it’s a movie the holds up less and less to scrutiny upon more viewings.
    Titanic would be markedly improved if Cameron had cut all the scenes on the submarine with Old Rose and the stupid subplot with the Heart-of-the-Ocean diamond. (Seriously, that sounds like an Indiana Jones relic).
    Those scenes were just incredibly cliche and superfluous. I suppose they were added so as to spell everything out for the audience and add additional suspense, but I, personally, didn’t appreciate that.

  33. EthanG says:

    Also DP this is a record breaking turnaround. A week ago you were spouting on about how Legendary Pictures’ deal with Warner wasn’t going to produce much coin for Warner because TDK was going to do only $600 million worldwide, possibly $500 million. Now thankfully you realize at least $900 million is the real number.
    And where’s the guy who said Half Blood Prince is going to outdistance “Knight” by at least $150 million?

  34. David Poland says:

    It’s always a thrilling time for me when I am “wrong” and certain people are “right” that one time a year. Beat, beat, beat that drum.
    There is no “real” number. TDK is a phenom. Guessing wrong on a movie (or 2 or 10!) doesn’t make me a basher or a hack.
    And there is still a very real chance that Half Blood Prince will outdistance TDK by $150m worldwide. Or it won’t.
    Now we have Steve Mason pushing the Fucking Crazy button and predicting the box office for the rest of the year.
    This is all why I have become more and more happy to allow others to wallow in this particular cesspool. Actual knowledge is mocked when it leads to bad calls and creates silence when it leads to good ones. Better to just spitball it all if that’s what gets you off… and to stop worrying about it as much – without context – if it doesn’t.
    Shall I say “I was wrong about the enormity of The Dark Knight’s box office prospects” again? Is someone applauding somewhere?

  35. BrandonS says:

    Gone With the Wind needs the asterisk more than Titanic. You can adjust for inflation, but how do you adjust for the changes in the distribution environment? No DVD, no VHS, no TV even – if you wanted to see it (or see it again), you had to buy another ticket. Plus, GWTW’s grosses include 7 different re-releases, 5 of which came before the home video revolution.
    Not that Gone With the Wind wasn’t a phenomenon, but you’re trying to level the dollars without leveling the playing field. Titanic got people to go back for multiple viewings despite the knowledge that they could rent or own it in less than a year.
    Also, as many problems as there are with Titanic, Gone With the Wind is a dull, headache-inducing whinybitchfest with a few scenes of genuine brilliance that tend to make people forget how much the rest of the movie sucks.

  36. IOIOIOI says:

    Titanic is the BOY BAND of movies. This is what it is, and you feeling the way you do. CHANGES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
    So, if you still look fondly at the Backstreet Boys and Nsync, then you may still look fondly at TITANIC. If not, then, it’s crap. It’s more exploitive than Patch Adams, it’s sexist towards MEN for once, and it’s HISTORICALLY INACCURATE! It’s tripe, it’s bogus, and it’s another way in which teenage girl sabataged the SYSTEM! Oh my god, they sabataged the system. Look at how they grow up and still go and see NKOTB. So… give it an asterik and put it on the board… YEEEESSSS!!!
    “That’s Sabotage.”
    You say ‘sabotage’.
    I say ‘sabatage’.

  37. IOIOIOI says:

    David: I TOLD YOU! I TOLD YOU MAN! I TOLD YOU! HA-ha.

  38. LexG says:

    “They sabotaged the system!”
    IO is officially a national treasure. I don’t even have a clue what he’s on about above, but I do so enjoy these flights of fancy. IO OWNS.

  39. EthanG says:

    No, what surprised me is the Romneyesque speed with which you went from saying “$500 million is possible worldwide” to “$950 million worldwide seems likely.” This is certainly another bold prediction….$1.1 billion for Half Blood Prince?? What’s the justification for this? The holiday HP releases other than the original fell short of $900 million. And this is suddenly going to be the largest by far, despite the greatest worldwide competition of any of the November Harry Potters? (James Bond, Madagascar 2) This is why you’re a blogger, not a BO analyst.
    Brandon, I completely agree. Just as fewer than 20% of Americans had DVD players when Titanic came out and movie piracy was relatively soft unless you lived in NY or Beijing. All three eras are different.

  40. IOIOIOI says:

    Someone does not listen to Howard, or know the Canadian vocal stylings of Dr. William Shatner.

  41. Martin S says:

    IO – in what thread did you predict TDK’s numbers?

  42. IO, how do you get off telling people that their opinion is wrong fact? FACT is a lot of people still like the movie, but just because you don’t or never did or whatever doesn’t make their opinion any less valid. it “CHANGES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING” that you don’t like it, it still made $600mil in the USA and $1.8billion worldwide. Nothing you say or do is going to change that.
    And if we’re talking historical accuracy? really? Let’s dismiss Amadeus then, that was rife with historical inaccuracies. etc.
    Brandon is totally right though about the environment in which the two films were released. Titanic had people going back to the cinema twice, three times, ten times, thirty times to see a movie that would’ve been on video in six months if they stopped. But they didn’t. Although I disagree that Gone With the Wind is not a good movie. It’s a classic. A brilliant classic.
    Repeatfather, the bit with Gloria Stewart and the necklace were more of a macguffin than anything else. Something to get the story rolling.
    IO, you realise though that wanting to use adjusted inflation grosses means that The Dark Knight will never be the biggest movie of all time, right?

  43. The Big Perm says:

    Batman is a drama for nerds who don’t like actual drams about people talking and all of that boring shit. But put a clown and a guy in arubber suit together, and you have A GREAT DRAMATIC FILM!!!

  44. sharonfranz says:

    Yeah, it’ll have a tough time catching up with Titanic. Titanic had legs; it was number at the box office for something like 11 weeks. I highly doubt that The Dark Knight will have that kind of staying power. We’ll see after this weekend. If the film only drops by 30%, then we can talk.

  45. ManWithNoName says:

    Anyone else find it sad that IO is apparently using TDK box office to validate his existence? Guess what, IO, I loved TDK and could care less how much it makes, as long as Nolan can make a third. And, in even more shocking news, a TDK fan also enjoyed TITANIC.

  46. Reynoldz says:

    “It’s tripe, it’s bogus, and it’s another way in which teenage girl sabataged the SYSTEM!”
    Between this and the line about TITANIC being sexist toward men (for once), I have to concede that this guy is awesome. I don’t think it’s at all silly to account for $600 billion dollars by point to those damn teenage girls. Those little sluts are loaded.

  47. IOIOIOI says:

    1) Mr. S: I pegged this back in late May. Go check the threads. I continually stated that this Summer was all about the BAT, and I even went as far as to state it could make 200m in a weekend. After Geoff and I discussed it. I changed it to having the biggest weekend ever. I have always known this, but no one wanted to listen.
    2) This is why I fucking want to leave this blog all the damn time. You fucking people cannot figure the SIMPLEST SHIT OUT. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DARK KNIGHT, YOU….. IT HAS TO DO WITH SOME BULLSHIT CALLED TITANIC.
    Titanic is a bogus piece of shit, that has long since been forgotten. If you really think it’s still a beloved movie. GO ask someone if they like the fucker. GO ask anyone. It’s a film that time has forgotten even with that record.
    If you do not believe that’s fact, Camel. Well, you live in your world, and I live in mine. The world I live in features people who really do not give a shit about THE BOY BAND OF MOVIES. This is why I hope and pray that AVATAR fails because THE FATES OWE CAMERON… BIG.
    Seriously you fucking people thought this was about The Dark Knight? Fucking hell. I do not even fucking recognize this record. I think it’s nothing more than Bonds homerun record. It’s all roids and a bloated head. This movie’s record is bogus and will remain bogus until some film actually has to EARN that amount of money in a clean way. Until then… Hank Aaron is the home-run leader.
    Oh yeah… Reynoldz… bugger off you freakin LURKER. 600 million, blojo. 600 million.
    Seriously though… YOU FUCKING PEOPLE THOUGHT THIS WAS ABOUT BATMAN? BATMAN? FUCKING HELL YOU ARE TRANSPARENT. You are so transparent. I can see your nips. Now cover up and let’s move on.

  48. leahnz says:

    paging nurse ratched…

  49. IOIOIOI says:

    Leah, I continually detest you, but it’s called playing for effect. You should also think about joining your friend Jeffery. I wonder where he is anyway?

  50. Lota says:

    “This is why I fucking want to leave this blog all the damn time.”
    begone then.
    but You won’t leave–where else can you post so much self-pitying drivel.
    I am starting like Titanic after having to wade through all the bollocks you post.
    Billy Zane was excellent, Kathy bates was sympathetic, Kate Winslet was emotional. Leonard was a HUGE hearthrob at the time. The water and the dread and the speculation/mystery–still a mystery in many ways where no one really knows exactly what happened was all really interesting. Was it worthy of oscars? Not all of them IMUHO.
    Paxton was annoying as he usually is and the diamond necklace had the purpose of showing some critical class distinctions which was part of the tragedy, even though the “old Rose” and Paxton’s mission seemed superfluous to the storytelling at times. Also some real live relatives of those that died and lived did not care for the colorful portrayal and the license Cameron took with real peoples’ tragedy.
    It wasn;t an absolutely terrible movie, and I am sure millions of people, like my parents, grandparents and relatives went to see it Simply since sinking of Titanic was one of the most memorable historical events in US/European history–that’s the only reason why they went! Had nothing to do with the quality. it was the EVENT. the irony of the ship that couldn’t sink. THe life boats that could hold 55 people yet didn;t carry them so the poor wouldn;t sit next to the rich. Thery didn;t even take the required number of lifeboats they were supposed to . Doomed.
    People hated the sentimentality of the movie in Ireland and England but they went to see it in droves since Titanic was built in Belfast, sailed from English ports, and people wanted to see what Hollywood did with it. It was AN EVENT. It was a PERSONAL event where many people had relatives who died on that boat! Everyone in the northwest of England and Northeast of Ireland knows someone who worked on that boat. The Olympic (sister ship) also sank, also built with British steel where many people knew people involved.
    You are making me defend this movie I don;t even care much for. Your arguments all the more “lost” and failed utterly since you drive people to the opposite.
    You need to catch yourself on, h8ter. Were you weaned on a pickle?!
    The Dark Knight is an excellent movie. It doesn;t have the sentimental schmaltz or historic event and mystery that Titanic has and for that reason it will be hard to knock down Titantic’s record.
    90 year olds and babies aren’t going to TDK.
    Deal with it.

  51. IOIOIOI says:

    It’s time to TAME THE COUGAR! GO-BOT STYLE! LEADER-1… GO!
    “‘This is why I fucking want to leave this blog all the damn time.’
    begone then.”
    It would feel so empty without me :D !
    “but You won’t leave–where else can you post so much self-pitying drivel.”
    Are you drunk? Drug-abuser? Like the Special K? The Cereal too? If not, then, where on earth do you get “self-pitying drivel” from Cougar? The only place anyone drops some drivel is folks like you, in response like this, to me.
    If anything, I am responding to people so blind and so fixed on one aspect, that they seemingly ignore what an entire argument is about. This is what you call… painfully obvious… yo.
    “I am starting like Titanic after having to wade through all the bollocks you post.”
    You have given me shit for years, but it’s not like I care about lady. Seriously lady, you have got to be kidding me. The folks cheer me on when I respond to someone like you. So keep it coming lady. Keep it coming because the vigor is always a good quality to have when one is a cougar.
    “Billy Zane was excellent, Kathy bates was sympathetic, Kate Winslet was emotional. Leonard was a HUGE hearthrob at the time. The water and the dread and the speculation/mystery–still a mystery in many ways where no one really knows exactly what happened was all really interesting. Was it worthy of oscars? Not all of them IMUHO.”
    No, boring, naked, lame, lacking any sense of mystery if you have taken one history clase in the last freakin 60+ years, but the last part I agree with you. Why? Victor Garber owned that movie. He owned Alias and now owns ELI STONE! He also sings and dance. Victor Garber is the bomb… again… yo.
    “Paxton was annoying as he usually is”
    Dissing Bill is like dissing a god sent down from Olympus. ENGAGE BLADIBLAH CONTROL!
    “and the diamond necklace had the purpose of showing some critical class distinctions which was part of the tragedy, even though the ‘old Rose’ and Paxton’s mission seemed superfluous to the storytelling at times. Also some real live relatives of those that died and lived did not care for the colorful portrayal and the license Cameron took with real peoples’ tragedy.”
    Bladiblah.
    “It wasn’t an absolutely terrible movie, and I am sure millions of people, like my parents, grandparents and relatives went to see it Simply since sinking of Titanic was one of the most memorable historical events in US/European history–that’s the only reason why they went! Had nothing to do with the quality. it was the EVENT. the irony of the ship that couldn’t sink. THe life boats that could hold 55 people yet didn;t carry them so the poor wouldn;t sit next to the rich. Thery didn;t even take the required number of lifeboats they were supposed to . Doomed.”
    Bladiblah.
    “People hated the sentimentality of the movie in Ireland and England but they went to see it in droves since Titanic was built in Belfast, sailed from English ports, and people wanted to see what Hollywood did with it. It was AN EVENT. It was a PERSONAL event where many people had relatives who died on that boat! Everyone in the northwest of England and Northeast of Ireland knows someone who worked on that boat. The Olympic (sister ship) also sank, also built with British steel where many people knew people involved.”
    Oh whoa (KEANU!) is me! I have no sense of history, never watched a freakin special on the Titanic, and never read about the Titanic and everything surrounding it. Nope. Never happen.
    “You are making me defend this movie I don;t even care much for. Your arguments all the more ‘lost’ and failed utterly since you drive people to the opposite.”
    I won my fight. It’s sort of like the Batman Returns fight. The folks have spoken. It’s not like this movie has ever killed on DVD. It’s not like this movie is even shown on TV all that often, and do not throw out the fucking running time. It was a movie at the right time and the right place.
    If you know anything about pop-culture. This was the start of a more teenage girl oriented era that led to Brit and Xtina and all of the boy bands. It also led to Leo doing his damnest to eliminate a stigma these girls hoisted upon him, that he still has a hard time shaking.
    So you and everyone else can go on and on about what you think, what you feel, but you folks have been proven in this thread to not pay attention to a simple argument based around Titanic’s record being inflated and this argument having nothing to do with THE DARK KNIGHT. This leaves me with the impression that some of you are not that swift on the upswing. You dig?
    “You need to catch yourself on, h8ter.”
    Oh, the white lady thinks that my use of HATER comes from the online world. DUH! DIDN’T SEE THAT COMING! A Hot Blogger not getting a supposed URBAN reference. Hot dawg. I am agast. Nevertheless, you do not get the reference. Total and epic fail.
    “Were you weaned on a pickle?!”
    Do you hit on your pool boys or do you go for the babysitters? Just curious.
    “The Dark Knight is an excellent movie. It doesn;t have the sentimental schmaltz or historic event and mystery that Titanic has and for that reason it will be hard to knock down Titantic’s record.”
    WHO GIVES A SHIT? Do you really think in 20 years anyone will be giving a shit about Titanic? It’s been almost 11 years and no one gives a shit about it now.
    The Dark Knight to almost universal EARTH-SHATTERING — except to you lot… I know… you guys and gals missing out on something… TOTALLY SAW THIS COMING — RAVES will stick with people their entire lives.
    Farci may have been joking, but this is THE DARK KNIGHT STRIKES BACK. This is a new generation’s EMPIRE. Do people ever shut up about EMPIRE? Uh no. So… again… total, utter, and crippling fail.
    “90 year olds and babies aren’t going to TDK.”
    I saw babies and old people at the Dark KNIGHT. Lex, LET HER HAVE IT! “WROOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNGGG!!!”
    “Deal with it.”
    No, you deal with the fact that once again you tried to be COOL, and came across as the prowling soccer mom that you are. That’s not a bad thing. It just makes you respond with a rather silly but oddly interesting historically perspective review, come across like someone who should spend her time doing other things like reading blogs NOT POSTING ON THEM.
    Good night, good luck, and you really should not …. .

  52. Martin S says:

    I pegged this back in late May. Go check the threads
    That why I asked. I don’t have time to rifle through thread after thread.

  53. The Big Perm says:

    If no one cares or remembers Titanic, then why has there been pages and pages of ranting about it?
    But I will have IO’s back in that he had called Dark Knight as being the biggest movie of the summer.

  54. Lota says:

    again nowhere did I say Titanic was a wonderful movie–it was an Event that many wished to partake in.
    TDK is a much better movie, but it was not the Event that Titanic was to so many different ages and nationalities of people, and that was in 10-yrs-ago dollars.
    But with your “Bladiblah.” responses it’s clear you don;t understand how to have a discussion, you just want to talk because it makes yourself feel better.
    Ordinarily no one would defend the mediocrity as a movie (even though there was spectacle, I’ll give it that) that Titanic was.
    Not too hard to call TDK as the biggest movie of the summer after Heath died–what else could give it serious competition? Please.

  55. The Big Perm says:

    By the way IO, Titanic seems to be showing every other day on cable right now. Much like Batman Begins. So maybe people like both of them and they are both very popular movies?

  56. Joe Leydon says:

    See, what Dark Knight really needed to seal the deal is Celine Dion singing a closing-credits song.
    And I know my Bat will go onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn….

  57. Crow T Robot says:

    I do like how the last line of the movie is “The Dark Knight” followed by in big letters: “The Dark Knight.”
    Now if only Elmo or Grover were there to help sound out the names in the end credits.
    “Cillian” is still a toughie for me.

  58. Lota says:

    Joe and Crow
    How about a little mini Stonehenge with midgets dancing with phonetical placards for the name credits…doing ‘interpretative’ dancing to Celine Dion’s my Bat Will Go On..or to appease Lex “My Bat Will go Own”.
    Classic. Oscar. Material.
    Perm…there are such people in the world. maybe millions, but IO would likely say they should all go die for being so open-minded.

  59. jeffmcm says:

    Here, IOI. You’re wrong, but what’s worse, you’re a hater who insists that he’s always right and who posts hundreds of words of nothingness to prove points that were flawed to begin with. It’s very frustrating.

  60. jeffmcm says:

    Crow, I hope you remember that there’s no title card at the beginning of the movie, just a logo, so they had to put it somewhere.

  61. Lota says:

    Dave you should have a Bat Challenge
    Challenge 1:
    re-write the song lyrics to CelineDIon’s song that makes my skin crawl… ‘my heart will go on’ for Batman. “My bat will go Own”
    Challenge 2:
    open Bat haiku slam
    Give out prizes Dave!
    I’m getting on a plane to the west coast, bat haiku might be a good time killer

  62. scooterzz says:

    i’ve just gotten around to reading this whole thread and, clearly, io has gone totally batshit…

  63. repeatfather says:

    “Paxton was annoying as he usually is and the diamond necklace had the purpose of showing some critical class distinctions ”
    I agree, but I think the class distinctions were pretty well-established without the diamond (Cameron all but grabs us by the neck and sticks our faces in it). For example, Rose having such a gay, old time with the simple but charming plebeians below decks, dancing and such.
    To me, the diamond just felt like something out of a pulpy romance adventure. It just didn’t belong in a historical epic.

  64. Crow T Robot says:

    Jeff, Nolan is a smart guy and all but his making the title the last line of the film is completely redundant if the first end credit a second later is the title card. He’s basically saying, “this is how the film got its title and, oh yeah, this is the film’s title.” Huh?
    He’s trying to do two cute/cool/ironic things at once and ends up negating the impact of both. It’s fraudulent. Like telling the punchline before the joke. Which, if Memento is any indication, is OK with this director.
    Say what you will about James Cameron. The guy knows story structure.

  65. jeffmcm says:

    Crow, I think that it would have been better to chop out the over-obvious line of dialogue and then go to the title card, than vice versa.
    But Memento is a pretty good example of story structure, when you actually break it down, because the gimmick is more than just a gimmick.
    Also I need to add that it’s really irritating that IOI, whose name is Jason, insists on spelling my name wrong. It’s just plain disrespectful, but then I guess that shouldn’t be a surprise.

  66. scooterzz says:

    last name voorhees, perhaps?

  67. Martin S says:

    Crow – that’s close to my problem with the end. If you scratched the speech, the visuals and music would have been amazing and left the audience to answer the kid’s question. So when the title pops up, thinking people would get the meaning. Instead, we got Basil Exposition.
    What’s odd is that the speechifying feels like a comic, while the overall arch is trying not to be.

  68. IOIOIOI says:

    Jeff: Heat gives me dap. While asking you to leave. Also, my name is Deer. Jerry P. Deer. Nevertheless, I am not a hater, but a person who sort of KNOWS things. You can think that I am wrong, but I am willing that I will be turned out to be right. So you can go away now. Bye bye.
    Big: that would happen to be The Simpsons Movie.
    Scoot: Again, you post like the deaf Japanese girl in Babel, and I am batshit? You really need to meet Jeff up for some ice cream, discuss how awesome you are, then ponder how silly the both of you are on this forum.

  69. jeffmcm says:

    Missed that memo, IOI. This thread illustrates your cognitive dissonance.

  70. Blackcloud says:

    Jackson putting the title of the film in a character’s mouth in each LOTR flick was incalculably more lame than what Nolan does at the end of TDK.

  71. IOIOIOI says:

    Jeff: keep on thinking that way. Unlike you, I seem to be able to FIGURE things out. While you and yours grasp at straws. Keep on keeping on Jeffy, but I know how these things shake out. So I will be over here drinking my Wild Cherry Pepsi and watching you people STRUGGLE TO KEEP IT ON THE FIELD!

  72. Martin S says:

    Blackcloud – I agree. Whenever I carch a Star Wars flick, I end up trying to picture Lucas hamfisting the title into a scene. It makes each film about 50% worse.

  73. IO, Titanic made $1.8b worldwide. I’m pretty sure any movie that made that much cash would have a hefty chunk of people that don’t like it. Just like you were going on recently about me not looking at the right websites that were filled with people going crazy for The X-Files: Fight the Future (yeah, how’d that pan out?) maybe you’re just not looking at the right place for people who like Titanic.

  74. Joe Leydon says:

    IO: Gee, Titanic is on TNT tonight. Guess people may still watch it.

  75. yancyskancy says:

    According to http://www.the-numbers.com, Titanic did another 1.2 billion in video and DVD sales and rentals. So there’s that, too.

  76. LexG says:

    This is on right now, and a couple people have mentioned it, BUT THE PROBLEM REALLY IS THAT FUCKING SONG.
    SO cheesy. So horrible. So depressing. So tacky. SO dated.
    I don’t deny that at the time, it was a huge, huge part of the success.
    But by now it’s been so overplayed, has become such kitsch, that it really does overwhelm so many of the film’s good qualities. And it’s not just that it’s an end-credits song. THE ENTIRE SCORE is based upon it, or vice versa, so you’re watching this classic movie with great action and brilliantly precise direction and cinematography… and THEY KEEP PLAYING THAT HORRIFIC, DEPRESSING, MAUDLIN MUSIC.
    It’d be like if ALIENS, DIE HARD, THE SHINING, or THE THING were scored to this hideous kitsch FUNERAL PYRE MUSIC that’s COMPLETELY MISERABLE; Imagine if STAR WARS’ score was just umpteen maudlin, instrumental takes on I WILL SURVIVE, or IF I COULD READ YOUR MIND.
    I can barely watch TITANIC now because even though the movie is still fine and an obviously stellar achievement, half of it is set to some godawful Vegas-camp lounge lizard bullshit that just infuriates me, has me scrambling for the off button.
    It’s Celine but it’s even more the score. Just miserable and dreary and unlistenable.

  77. IOIOIOI says:

    Lex… IT’S REALLY FUCKING ON!
    Camel: Fight the Future has a lot of fans. Fans who apparently use the NET to discuss the SHIT PREMISE of this current film. Seriously, you do understand how the net works? Don’t you?
    Joe: WHO THE FUCK COUNTS TNT? Seriously, that’s basic cable. Real folks consider THE PAY CHANNELS, where everything is countlessly repeated, to be the place where MOVIES ARE PLAYED ALL THE TIME.
    So they are playing it on TNT. If people really are that whacked out and need to waste four hours of their lives on a movie that has TWO SPECIAL EDITIONS ON DVD available at a DECENT PRICE. Well… those people… really must dislike Leo with facial hair.
    yancy: VIDEO as in VIDEOTAPES. It was huge on VIDEOTAPE. Did I ever go “It did crap on HOME VIDEO”? If I did. I apologize for not being clear enough.
    Here’s the deal: it sold a shitload of video tapes, but the DVDS not so much. If you do not believe me. Go look. The video tapes of that movie were huge. No one is denying that fact. I am simply stating that like most things Titanic. It’s a relic of a different time. A time where women and their daughters would stay up til midnight to purchase videotapes.
    Sure it’s a different time, but Titanic is from a different time. A time long forgotten except by Hot Bloggers. A special sort of people who dismiss TDK for Batman Returns and are proud of it. Weirdos the lot of ya!

  78. yancyskancy says:

    IO: I know you said nothing about Titanic’s home vid stats. I brought it up only as possible evidence that love for the film didn’t completely stop after a couple of years. Sure, VHS sales might be dismissed as a carry-over of the initial “mass hysteria.” The most meaningful stat would be the number of DVDs sold, with comparisons between the various editions, but I don’t know where to get that info. It might support your case, or disprove it. Of course, a lot of folks may be like me — dig the film but haven’t bought it (though I might when I get a home theater set-up that could do justice to the spectacle).

  79. 50. Thank you, I’ve just been searching for information about this topic for a while and yours is the best I’ve found out so far. But, what concerning the bottom line? Are you positive concerning the source?

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Julian Schnabel: Years ago, I was down there with my cousin’s wife Corky. She was wild — she wore makeup on her legs, and she had a streak in her hair like Yvonne De Carlo in “The Munsters.” She liked to paint. I had overalls on with just a T-shirt and looked like whatever. We were trying to buy a bunch of supplies with my cousin Jesse’s credit card. They looked at the credit card, and then they looked at us and thought maybe we stole the card, so they called Jesse up. He was a doctor who became the head of trauma at St. Vincent’s. They said, “There’s somebody here with this credit card and we want to know if it belongs to you.”

He said, “Well, does the woman have dyed blonde hair and fake eyelashes and look like she stepped out of the backstage of some kind of silent movie, and is she with some guy who has wild hair and is kind of dressed like a bum?”

“Yeah, that’s them.”

“Yeah, that’s my cousin and my wife. It’s okay, they can charge it on my card.”
~ Julian Schnabel Remembers NYC’s Now-Shuttered Pearl Paint

MB Cool. I was really interested in the aerial photography from Enter the Void and how one could understand that conceptually as a POV, while in fact it’s more of an objective view of the city where the story takes place. So it’s an objective and subjective camera at the same time. I know that you’re interested in Kubrick. We’ve talked about that in the past because it’s something that you and I have in common—

GN You’re obsessed with Kubrick, too.

MB Does he still occupy your mind or was he more of an early influence?

GN He was more of an early influence. Kubrick has been my idol my whole life, my own “god.” I was six or seven years old when I saw 2001: A Space Odyssey, and I never felt such cinematic ecstasy. Maybe that’s what brought me to direct movies, to try to compete with that “wizard of Oz” behind the film. So then, years later, I tried to do something in that direction, like many other directors tried to do their own, you know, homage or remake or parody or whatever of 2001. I don’t know if you ever had that movie in mind for your own projects. But in my case, I don’t think about 2001 anymore now. That film was my first “trip” ever. And then I tried my best to reproduce on screen what some drug trips are like. But it’s very hard. For sure, moving images are a better medium than words, but it’s still very far from the real experience. I read that Kubrick said about Lynch’s Eraserhead, that he wished he had made that movie because it was the film he had seen that came closest to the language of nightmares.

Matthew Barney and Gaspar Noé