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David Poland

By David Poland

It's The Backdoor, Stupid.

You have to hand it to James Carville

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30 Responses to “It's The Backdoor, Stupid.”

  1. Blackcloud says:

    I dunno. I think the read on this story is 1) how bloody the internecine conflict at the surrogate level has become–witness the Obama guy who brought up that stain on that dress; and 2) how desperate the Clinton camp is.
    Leaving aside the question of who is to blame, and neither being my state I don’t have a horse in the race, it astounds me that it is even being contemplated that Florida and Michigan won’t count. Since when does a party tell one of the STATES when it can and cannot hold its elections? Last time I checked the states were constituent parts of the Union. The parties are nothing. The idea of the part dictating to the States is absurd. That is, I daresay, the kind of thing usually found only in places where the party is the state. Like, say, China or the DDR. Which is to say, not here.

  2. Eric says:

    Perhaps, but the party is ostensibly a private entity and is free to determine the rules for its own nomination process.
    By the way, let’s dispose of this “Republicans in the Florida legislature” business. The Democrats in the Florida legislature voted with the Republicans overwhelmingly to hold an early primary.
    And one more thing: the states did so because they wanted to wield a disproportionately large influence on the nomination process– in essence, their goal was to disenfranchise the forty-four states that would come later. And after that plan didn’t work, they now have the temerity to claim their own voters are being disenfranchised. Absurd.

  3. benhoju says:

    I’ve been reading you since the tnt days. And well I have to disagree with you here.
    So here is the deal on Bill Richardson’s endorsement.
    I haven’t read anything about it but it seems people seem really shocked and that its a “indictment on Hillary”.
    Lets look at the facts.
    Hillary/Bill most assuredly promised Richardson a VP slot in 2008 were she to win the election. There is no doubt in my mind.
    As Obama starting winning it became clear that Hillary had to take Obama as her VP were she to win. Richardson stayed on the sidelines.
    And if Obama won and Richardson supported Hillary and campaigned against Obama where would that leave him? No where. And Obama has a latino problem. And if you look at the state by state polls. Obama needs a big name latino guy. NEEDS. Richardson saw the opportunity and took it.
    If you look at the state by state polls he loses to mccain or its tied. Hillary wins. Electorally she has a big lead on Mccain.
    Richardson wants to be president.
    The only way for him to get there is in the Obama administration.
    Thats a hell of a lot more than 50 pieces of silver. And Carville said what he said, and he knows what Richardson is doing, and he thinks it sucks. But, he won’t back down because he’s right.
    Now this scorched earth Obama/Clinton this could have been solved a long time ago.
    But the Obamaites will not allow Hillary to be Vp.
    She’d take it trust me. And Obama would win in an electoral landslide.
    As it stands today Hillary wins in November and Obama loses. Those numbers could change. But if you’re in the Clinton camp and you see that, how can you back down now?
    And then what do you say if you counted the votes in Florida and Hillary won the popular vote? Not the delegate count. The popular vote?
    As a member of the democratic party that would make you feel good, because well the Clintons didn’t get elected?
    The Clinton camp is at such a point that they are willing to make Mccain win in 08 and run against him 2012. And people will deride the decision as being scorched earth and no party loyalty.
    The fact is Obama has won little over half the democratic votes. Thats no mandate. That means we’re split between two people that have VERY similar views.
    Honestly most voters want the game to end happily, and the media will mention things like “Clinton ego would never allow them to take the VP” when in fact that is a complete lie.
    The game ends a few different ways, all fascinating. All corrupted by surrogates obsessed with power and winning the game. And losing focus on the real game.
    Kennedy and Johnson needed each other.
    In a way this is Malkovich and Close’s dance in Dangerous Liasons.
    Both refusing to actually say I love you to each other. And destroying themselves and others in the process.

  4. Blackcloud says:

    Eric, everything you say is correct. Florida and (especially) Michigan wanted to blow up the system because of the disproportionate influence of Iowa and New Hampshire. Essentially, the system is skewed in both directions: too much power for the states and too little. The system as it is should be destroyed and replaced, but it likely would take an amendment to the Constitution to change it, since that alone could bind all the states.
    FL and MI on the one side and the Dems on the other were laying a game of chicken. Neither blinked, so now they’re both in the bed they made. (How’s that for a mixed metaphor?) The party is a private entity, free to set its own rules. But if you’re going to ask me what ultimately should prevail, the parties or the people, I’ll side with the people every time. Ours government is founded on popular sovereignty. Somehow, I don’t see the Dems following that principle here. Which means they’re just hypocrites when they carp about voter disenfranchisement. If anyone is to blame for this mess, it’s Dr. Scream, who’s been a terrible party chairman. He wouldn’t find a way out of this dilemma and now he can’t. Wgich means the GOP can run ads with McCain this fall in FL and MI stating simply, “If you vote for me, your vote will count.” And it will. Typical Dem cock up, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

  5. djiggs says:

    “Once again, politics as usual

  6. RudyV says:

    As a resident of MI, I was gladdened to see our legisfools finally slapped down with a firm hand by a powerful outside force.
    We’ve been suffering in silence under the idiocy of their “leadership” (snicker) for far too long and for once it’s nice to see people outside the state point out what we already knew–our leaders are morons. They made the state far too dependent on the Detroit 3, handed out tax abatements like bribes (actually, I think they are bribes) to any businessman who might or might not have ever mused “Well, we could take our business elsewhere,” then saw that strategy backfire when these jobs departed from not just the state but the country as well. Once the tax base started to dry up they threw a partisan hissy and shut the state down when they couldn’t figure out how to finance basic services.
    So while we were busy watching our state slide down the loo like a greased turd this came along and provided at least a momentary chuckle.

  7. … and this is me not caring.

  8. djiggs says:

    Also, if we are so worried about what the right-wing hate machine is going to the Democratic nominee, isn’t just fair to show a possible viral campaign on Barack Obama, and not just the “Great Satan” Hillary Clinton?
    Here is an example of what Barack will face with “Don’t tell me words don’t matter” when confronted with Pastor Wright’s words.

  9. IOIOIOI says:

    Bart, if you do not care, then you truly have no idea how the world works. This makes me feel very sorry for you. Now… let us engage… the STYLE OF MCWEENEY!
    “Yes, Dave, it is politics as usual..the lie instead of even acknowledging a more complex truth. It is just that you have also and continue to perpetuate the biggest lie of the whole 2campaign – ‘Hillary Clinton is the Devil/Satan/Hitler’ while Obama is the ‘white knight/Messiah/Jesus’ coming to rescue America.”
    I am at a loss as to how some motherfuckers cannot see this obvious truth with their own eyes.
    “To paraphrase Clarice Starling, I would like to ask yourself and any other Obama supporter if you are strong enough to point that high-powered perception at Obama?”
    Did the Rolling Stone cover with “A NEW HOPE” next to Obama’s picture not hammer this home for you? We believe in the man. We believe in him being the Luke Skywalker that frees the world from the clutches of the current EVIL EMPIRE.
    “What about it? Why don’t you – why don’t you look at Obama and write down what you see? Or maybe you’re afraid to.”
    Maybe you do not pay attention? Maybe you missed Heat’s posts for the last three months? My posts over the last three months? Politico and so forth over the last three months?
    “Why has it been necessary for a main undercurrent of the Obama campaign following to paint Hillary Clinton as the ‘greatest evil that the world has ever known’?”
    She’s not a gracious woman. If she were gracious. She would accept defeat. Yet we have to be held hostage by this woman and her croonies, who want to STEAL THIS ELECTION FROM OBAMA! If that’s not a “GREATEST EVIL” in terms of the Democratic party after what happened in 2000. Please point out to me what is?
    “And before anyone states that I am putting Hillary on a pedestal, let me state that my vote this fall is going to Ron Paul.”
    So you are voting for a guy who can never win? Really? You go with RON PAUL over OBAMA? It seems plausible, but rather silly.
    “I see Hillary Clinton (and I believe that she herself for what she is) a down-and-dirty politician. I believe that her supporters have no illusions about her as a candidate. But, my question has always been from the beginning about the Obama campaign: Where is the critical judgment among his supporters?”
    Critical judgement? Motherfucker… STOP ACTING LIKE THIS IS YESTERDAY, WHEN IT’S TODAY! Many Obama supporters are past the above bullshit you are carrying on about because we want something more. We want to believe in and vote for a man who wants to fix this country for the better. We want to believe in and vote for this man because he represents to us — to many of us — a better tomorrow. Critical thinking and down and dirty politics have no place when many of us want a BETTER FUCKING COUNTRY. A better country only happens if we get past all of this old-world political bullshit that Hillary and Co. represent.
    “While it seemed everyone in the media was gushing over his speech on race last week, I was left with many puzzling questions.
    1) Where was Obama’s personal apology to the American people who may be offended by his pastor’s remarks?”
    Do you apologize for your friends? Do you call out people you love even when they act stupid? Maybe this is a sentiment part of white America does not understand because they are so accustomed to throwing motherfuckers under a bus at a drop of a hat, but people stick with people. Rev. Wright is the Reverend of a prodominantly WHITE CHURCH and he has a right to his opinions. Obama owes no apology to any of us. All he owes us is a… “I love him, but he’s a crazy motherfucker sometimes” speech. Which he gave us.
    “2) Why did no one continue to bring up that the only reason why Obama had to make this speech –> was the fact that he has this 20 year relationship with a man who made these racially insensitive remarks?”
    A dude whose a Reverend to a prodominantly white church made RACIALLY INSENSITIVE REMARKS? Really? Bullshit. HE made statements from the point of view of a black man living in this country.
    He’s also a black man whose influential in Chicago, and helped Obama get to the point where he could make that speech. You do not cast your friends away even when they act a fool.
    “3) Where was Obama’s personal apology to the Clintons (hell even to Monica Lewinsky) for his pastor’s disgraceful characterization of them? (I know that people will say…well Rush Limbaugh/Hannity/Leno/Letterman say outrageous comments about Clinton-Lewinsky scandal-but c’mon these comments and sexual gyrations were made by a pastor during a Sunday service!)”
    Do you really see the world this way? Bill and Hillary have MARGINALIZED BARACK OBAMA ON A ALMOST DAILY BASIS FOR 3 MONTHS! Please pay attention a bit more before posting such poppycock.
    “As a political candidate who is aspiring to bring the racial divide, don’t you have to clean up your own house before lecturing the rest of us on race?”
    Clean up your own house? You are as ignorant as Howard Stern on this matter. Wright is his friend and helped him to prominesence. You simply do not throw that way because he acted a fool. Do white people even understand loyalty? People say stupid shit all the time, that’s why you FORGIVE THEM. Duh.
    You and Bill Simmons try to find way too much DEPTH in the Wire.
    “One of the core narratives of this campaign has been the Clintons will do anything to grab for power. Well, what do you call a state legislator who muscles out other legislators in introducing legislation to create the one stellar year of legislative activity before jumping into the US Senate race? Someone who cozied up to former Weathermen, corrupt landlord, a pastor who spewed racially insensitive language from his pulpit, and the dirty Blagovich Illinois Democratic political machine?”
    Are you daft? None of this happened the way you believed it happened. Is this Baltimore? Is Dominc West involved? I could have sworned that Leana Headey just killed his ass in the 300 on HBO moments ago.
    If ytou
    I will never understand how we continue to get snookered (as a voting public) into thinking that one man will cure our ills as a nation. Barack Obama is nothing more or nothing less than Hillary Clinton, a politician not a Messiah. It may not be today, tomorrow, or even this year. It may come in the 7th year of 8 years of an Obama presidency. But, it will be cold water in the face of Obama supporters who have blind faith. I just await for the Hot Blog entry on 2012 or whenever telling me how Obama has screwed up.

  10. David Poland says:

    Now we’re getting to it…
    1. Why is that every time I say, “Hillary is doing the wrong thing” and “Obama is more electable,” the response from the Clinton supporters is “Why are you making this guy into a deity?”
    I have never said that Obama is a God or the ultimate solution to America’s problems or even that he is not a politician. What is the compulsion to make anyone who supports Obama into a religious fanatic? Could it be insecurity with the real issues and the reality of this race?
    Djiggs… you sure could like you think Hillary is more. No?
    And absolutely… I am sure that I will write someday about a mistake that Obama has made in office. But you see, I don’t believe in The Magic President. Why? Because I actually understand power a bit. Like the captain of a large ship, a president can only point in a direction, work with a large crew to make his vision happen… and deal with the reality of weather, lack of engine power, uncontrollable seas, etc.
    And BenH – You make three huge presumptions. First, that Richardson had already been offered the Vice Presidency. And second, that Obama wouldn’t offer Clinton the Vice Presidency and that if he did, she would accept it. I don’t think either of these candidates would accept a role as the other’s VP. Finally, you assume that an Obama/Clinton ticket would win. I think that Clinton as Obama’s VP is the worst of both world’s. It would energize the Republicans, bring all of her negatives to him, and not add many votes, because push comes to shove, I don’t believe that 40% of her supporters would now switch to McCain. It’s like polling kids in a playground in the middle of a brawl.
    Also, Clinton has been ahead of Obama in polls for exactly as long as a year-old tape of Rev Wright mysteriously became an obsessive media issue. Oh… until the last few days… when she’s pulled ahead of him again.
    I would never count votes in Florida (or Michigan) for a contest that wasn’t a contest. And in a re-vote, there is no way Clinton would make up hundreds of thousands of votes. She would, as her people know, get closer, at best.
    Clinton’s camp has done what they sought to do with you, however. They have made this appear, to you, to be a fair fight between two people with similar agendas.
    And if I beleived that they had the same agendas, I would not have written the first blog entry about this race. I never thought Obama could win. I now do. I am quite sure that Clinton can not win. That has not changed. Why? Because against a tough candidate in McCain, he is the one who actually does inspire people… who actually does seek a higher standard… who is, perhaps, still naive enough to believe.

  11. IOIOIOI says:

    Sorry for not editting the above, but back to more nonsense via MCWEENEY STYLE!
    “I will never understand how we continue to get snookered (as a voting public) into thinking that one man will cure our ills as a nation.”
    Count your lucky stars… you repugnant fool… that the forefathers took the time out of their lives to create the backbone of this country for us. If they did not take the time. People would not believe in one man (or one day a woman) being able to change the world.
    You do get that Obama winning could change the world? The world wants him. We are global citizens now, and the world is pleading for the United States to give the world a GREAT LEADER.
    You are either too you, too ignorant, or too stupid to realize that this Novemeber is not about the next four years. It’s about the next 91. This is the moment where either stand for something or stand for an old man who wants to BOMB BOMB BOMB IRAN. Excuse yourself for your arrogance and beg the forefathers to forgive you, because you really are acting a damn fool right now.
    “Barack Obama is nothing more or nothing less than Hillary Clinton, a politician not a Messiah.”
    Politics make the world spin. We are not looking for a hero, a messiah, or a king. We are simply looking for one human being to be put in that office and have the power of their convictions. If you do not get that… I pity you. I pity you that you lack the ability to see past your own narcissitic cynicism and glance upon the bigger world around you. The world does not work like TV SHOWS. There are no Exec Producers here. This playing for the soul of a country and the world.
    “It may not be today, tomorrow, or even this year. It may come in the 7th year of 8 years of an Obama presidency. But, it will be cold water in the face of Obama supporters who have blind faith. I just await for the Hot Blog entry on 2012 or whenever telling me how Obama has screwed up.”
    He’s a man. He will make mistakes. All humans do. You just have to ask yourself; “Whose the better person?” Whose better? The guy who rose from nothing to something? Or the woman and her fiendish minions who believe she was ordained power? IF you ask the latter. You reap what you sow. Oh I forgot… you are going to vote for Ron Paul. Wow. Power of your convictions… not.
    Oh yeah… viral campaigns on YOU TUBE mean jack and shit because the wright story means jack and shit. It’s over. If McCain wants to bring it up. All Obama has to play is what McCain said last week FOUR TIMES.
    Do not come in this yard and play around.

  12. David Poland says:

    Oops… slightly premature comment…
    I wanted to add the quote, as best I can remember it, from Chariots of Fire.
    “Would you prefer me to lose?”
    “To playing the tradesman, yes.”
    It’s not black and white.
    I think Ben is right. I think Clinton will sacrifice 2008 for another shot at it. Horrible.

  13. Blackcloud says:

    One thing is clear. Some people think that other people think that Obama is the second coming.

  14. christian says:

    I’ve always found Carville and his wife kinda repulsive.

  15. djiggs says:

    Dave, where did I say in my entry that I supported Hillary? I plainly state that Hillary is a “down-and-dirty” politician, and she is comfortable in the bruising sports of politics. I just believe that she has been tarred and feathered to a most obscene degree, and that seems to go hand in hand with Obama is leading us to a new way of politics bs.
    I understand power to Dave, and history is littered with the little guys who took on the establishment and then became the establishment.
    Dave, where is the critical judgment that skewers Nikki Finke, Jeff Wells, and NYTimes coverage when it comes to Obama? I just find it ridiculous that your blog has become no different Andrew Sullivan’s blog with regards to Obama. Have you so fallen head over heels for Obama that you are blind to his political past in Chicago & Springfield?
    IO, yes, I believe that Barack Obama does owe an apology to the American people and Clintons. It would have made me think of his character more highly if he apologized for his pastor’s remarks.
    Especially since his pastor ministered to President Clinton after the Lewinsky scandal. To bridge the gap in this Democratic party & in this nation, doesn’t the future leader have to lead by example by admitting to their own sins and asking forgiveness? Lead by example, not only by words but by deeds.
    Dave, you know I want the American public and its leaders to seek a higher standard in its governance, politics, and public discourse. But, I do not want the American public to be “naive enough to believe”. The American public has been naive enough to believe a future president when he stated at the 2000 Republican convention that he would bring integrity and honor in the White House. Look where that got us: Bin Laden still alive, a mess in Iraq, $4 trillion dollar deficit, and being a pariah in the world. We have had 8 years of naivety and look where it got us.
    Look, I did not mean this comment to be anti-Obama post, but I also have become really disturbed that people are looking at Obama thru rose-colored glasses. Dave, you know what would change my opinion on your stance on Obama? If I saw 1 entry where you analyzed an Obama position in really critical terms, rather than glowing, rah-rah terms. I just do not see the struggle/analysis over why Obama people are making him their choice. Otherwise, what is the difference between “naive” Obama follower and a George W. Bush follower or the persistent Jeovah’s witness who keeps banging on your door?
    And, IOIO, “The Wire” has more depth than even the greatest fans or detractors believe. I am comfortable in stating that it is one of the greatest achievements in American culture.

  16. IOIOIOI says:

    Dude: you believe more in a TV SHOW than a MAN who can become PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. Jeez. Someone needs to get a handle on their life because that’s fucking whacky.
    You also do not get this simple fact: THIS COUNTRY IS READY FOR A CHANGE. Please point out to me where DOWN AND DIRTY politics have gotten us in the last 20 years? Come on… please explain to me why the US covers most of the fees for this planet, but we are the 22nd most properous nation. We are so rich yet nothing ever changes. PEOPLE WANT A CHANGE.
    You want to vote for Ron Paul for fuck’s sake, and you do not see how you yourself are voting for change? This country has to take a stand, here and now, and proclaim where were we stand in the years to come.
    All of your bullshit cynicism does not change the fact that ONE PERSON CAN CHANGE THE WORLD. One freakin lawyer/farmer from Virginia who hated public speaking, wrote one of the documents that has spurred more freedom on this planet than any other document before it. Tom Jefferson was but one man. This is how it works.
    If you want to stay disenfranchised, then vote for Ron Paul. You will at least be voting for one of the candidates out there who believes the people of the US deserve better. Down and Dirty has not helped anyone. It’s time for something NEW. If you think that’s bullshit. Well… you have no sense of history.

  17. djiggs says:

    IOIO, another point. From all I have seen and read about Barack Obama’s political career, he is very Clinton-like. So, are we trading the political bs with an old face for the same political bs with a new face? If you want to vote for Obama, go ahead. No one will stop you. I just hope that the backbone for voting Obama is not because he is “Luke Skywalker that frees the world from the clutches of the current EVIL EMPIRE.” Especially when you are criticizing me for citing “The Wire”. I’ll take the Pepsi challenge of “The Wire” vs. “Star Wars” anyday.
    Also, I am sure that John Kerry and Michael Dukakis thought that the SwiftBoat and Willie Horton ads were jack shit too.

  18. djiggs says:

    IOIO, last I looked it was Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams who shaped the Declaration of Independence. This is where I think that I am actually being the one is looking at the future and not the past like yourself.
    I am not looking for any one to save me or my country. I want to I and my country to save ourselves. I am looking for a community effort not one man to lead us. You said that it was the “forefathers” not just Thomas Jefferson to create the backbone of this country. I support Ron Paul because he is the candidate that does not trust only in his own innate ability but in the abilities and power of the American people. He has the greatest trust in the ideals that have made America great.

  19. oldman says:

    1) I’m NOT an Obama supporter.
    2) Can any of Hillary’s supporters answer this question: Name one ( one,1,uno)… Name one SPECIFIC accomplishment that Hillary has achived; that would not have occured without Hillary; that has made the world a better place; and, that you are proud of.
    Name ONE!
    35 years of experience?????? Plezzzz….

  20. benhoju says:

    1.) Obama is not more electable. I unlike others would rather have PA and Florida locked up. Rather than have to fight it out. I mean the whole “Obama can win Utah and Colorado” argument is exciting. But its a risk. But him losing florida and Harrisburgland scares me and no its not because of racists.
    2.) Obama is Clinton 1992 style. Pure and simple. Hillary is well grown up, cynical. A little harsh. Hell I am too, I mean I remember the nonsense that went on from 94 on. How could you not be excited at starting over from the politics of old. And well somehow the media and we have all put the shame on them role. As if the right wing attack machine was well deserved. It wasn’t. It never was and it never will be. And you know what. The clintons still won. Bill is still beloved.
    I thought the same thing as you, I really thought “oh hillary will just be eaten up by the right” until I figured they never really beat her. Thats when it changed for me, I personally want Obama as a VP candidate, but I love the idea of Hillary as Cheney(bad analogy but helpful in some respects) type bulldog saying “you leave my Obama alone”.
    She can win Dave. Trust me and she can lock up a win for Obama. Trust me.
    99% of the Obama/Clinton clashes are coming from Obama/Clinton surrogates that just can’t stand the concept of sharing power. And I understand the Obama surrogates many of them are younger, probably watched the War Room and said “that could be me, I could be the next host of ABC talk show! I could change the world”
    The Clinton surrogates just can’t handle the fact that the kid in the room is getting the attention and love. They have their drivers license for christ sakes!
    2.) You never said it but its there.
    “She’s a total B”
    She’s a woman so she never got anywhere except because of Bill, when if you talk to any Clinton insider from the start the inverse is true.
    This is pure Lady Macbeth.
    Lets just ignore her tremondous work during Watergate, in Little Rock, and what the Clinton admin did as well, because oh she was probably just baking cakes and arranging flowers.
    3.) However no Dave if you really think there is a policy difference you are wrong. His administration will seem eerily similar to the nineties, with much less sex jokes and scandal.
    Obama never wins Florida in a race against hillary you know it and I know it. They drive down the coast, take the jetblue run. Those votes should count. It wasn’t a contest because they didn’t campaign? Voters in Florida don’t have Tvs? They don’t watch the MSNBC Obama lovefest? Olberman said the same thing about California “Obama just didn’t have enough time to catch up” And maybe, just maybe the NYites ACTUALLY like her, respect her, voted for her.
    I’m a jew and have already heard family members grumbling that they will have to change residence and take vacation to vote in Florida if Hillary wins. I’ve not heard such talk about Obama. Not that they would vote for Mccain either. But more than a few east coasters from florida love mccain for some reason.
    Oh yeah. Israel.
    Obama has made some comments about Israel that while I 100% agree with him.
    Are damaging to a segment of the base that votes in certain regions. If only Rev. Wright could have left that Israel comment outta there.
    Umm florida. Clinton does not have such a problem.
    The sexism in the media and smaller states is so pernicious its scary. It is far more rampant and cunning than the racists out there.
    But Hillary has been vetted, and your fears of the attack dogs going after her are just that fear.
    The american people have already seen this show and they are bored. Bored with Hannity, bored with the sexist nonsense. Because well we did it for 8 years. Thats why she can win. Oh yeah and the electorally “crucial” states too.
    Obama can win too. But he needs a strong VP, like Richardson or Hillary. I just worry that not choosing hillary causes problems for him that might not be solved by Richardson.
    If you go back to the carville interview from yesterday and look at Carville’s expression and refusal to say it outright, he knew the fix was in. And that he would not back off his comments means that he was sure. James Carville’s eye for predicting political events is pretty damn strong.
    I mean it could have been Secretary of State, but I’m pretty sure it was VP.
    I am fairly sure that Obama would offer the VP to Hillary and vice versa. I’m not so sure Axelrod or Wolfson would. No one goes to a debate and says “its an honor to be on the same stage as you” and then in a few weeks mentions the VP slot if she hadn’t considered taking it. But she might be more genius than we think by creating a huge tension and then making up in the end. Pure Laura Linney in Mystic River. It might be the news story to end all news stories.
    I’m glad Obama is still young. But what if the voters take a double take at him and go to Mccain.
    With Hillary there is no such problem.
    The turnout for Obama/Clinton is just ridiculous compared to the interest in Mccain. And its not because they are in the trenches. It gets me excited that oh we could have the white house for 16 years. Say that again. Democrats in the white house for 8 terms. Sigh….
    I don’t know why you are so against UNITING these two factions.
    Hillary supporters are not going to turn on her like some did to Gore in 2000 by calling her a sore loser. They are going to be angry and indignant. This will happen with the young people with Obama, they become cynical as well were he to have the nomination “taken” from him.
    This solves everything. Its like Owen Wilson’s 50 year plan in bottle rocket.
    I want Obama to be president I do, I’m just not ready to give him the keys to the car just yet, I want Bill and Hillary to give him a drivers ed class put him through Al Gore University and then when he’s graduated let him run everything.
    A strong VP like Hillary allays much of my fears about this youngling.
    I’m 26 btw.

  21. mysteryperfecta says:

    DP said “What is the compulsion to make anyone who supports Obama into a religious fanatic?”
    How can you honestly assert that, when you are the one describing yourself as a born-again believer in Obama? Its also disingenuous to claim that the “fanatic” label is applied to “anyone” who supports Obama. The claim has always been that there is a disproportionate amount of fanaticism among Obama’s supporters.
    Personally, I don’t find Carville’s “judas” comment as cheap a shot as Bill’s “patriotism” remark. I don’t know why Hilary’s lie isn’t front page news, although its interesting to note that its the mainstream media who has exposed this lie.
    What I find compelling is that Democrats are suddenly aghast at Carville being Carville, at Bill being Bill, at Hilary being Hilary. What’s ironic is that the moving up of state primaries would have, at the time, be seen as a boost to Hilary, in that it would allow her to secure her “inevitable” nomination early.

  22. IOIOIOI says:

    Again knuckleheads; if the democrats and Keith Olbermann are calling out Hillary on her pure and utter BULLSHIT. You really — the lot of you, especially the 26 yo who thinks he has the right to keep the keys of this country from a smarter and a grown ass man — need to get a handle on your lives. She’s pulling some Palpatine level bullshit. She wants to steal a primary from Obama, and you will support her? Really. Get the fuck out of here.

  23. leahnz says:

    IO, i say this to my son once in a blue moon and i’ll say it to you now: you are on my last nerve. i just skip over your posts now because they are that annoying. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah

  24. Blackcloud says:

    Leah, that’s really awful of you to insult your son like that by comparing him to IO.

  25. hendhogan says:

    sorry, IO, but i have to concur. you repeat the same meme over and over again with nothing new to add. maybe you could yell HOPE and CHANGE a little more.

  26. djiggs says:

    To both IO and David, Christopher Hitchens’ article about the Obama/Wright situation concisely summarizes some of the warning signs that I fear not many people are paying attention to with the Obama campaign.
    Blind Faith
    The statements of clergymen like Jeremiah Wright aren’t controversial and incendiary; they’re wicked and stupid.
    By Christopher Hitchens
    Posted Monday, March 24, 2008, at 12:09 PM ET
    It’s been more than a month since I began warning Sen. Barack Obama that he would become answerable for his revolting choice of a family priest. But never mind that; the astonishing thing is that it’s at least 11 months since he himself has known precisely the same thing. “If Barack gets past the primary,” said the Rev. Jeremiah Wright to the New York Times in April of last year, “he might have to publicly distance himself from me. I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen.” Pause just for a moment, if only to admire the sheer calculating self-confidence of this. Sen. Obama has long known perfectly well, in other words, that he’d one day have to put some daylight between himself and a bigmouth Farrakhan fan. But he felt he needed his South Side Chicago “base” in the meantime. So he coldly decided to double-cross that bridge when he came to it. And now we are all supposed to marvel at the silky success of the maneuver.
    You often hear it said, of some political or other opportunist, that he would sell his own grandmother if it would suit his interests. But you seldom, if ever, see this notorious transaction actually being performed, which is why I am slightly surprised that Obama got away with it so easily. (Yet why do I say I am surprised? He still gets away with absolutely everything.)
    Looking for a moral equivalent to a professional demagogue who thinks that AIDS and drugs are the result of a conspiracy by the white man, Obama settled on an 85-year-old lady named Madelyn Dunham, who spent a good deal of her youth helping to raise him and who now lives alone and unwell in a condo in Honolulu. It would be interesting to know whether her charismatic grandson made her aware that he was about to touch her with his grace and make her famous in this way. By sheer good fortune, she, too, could be a part of it all and serve her turn in the great enhancement.
    This flabbergasting process, made up of glibness and ruthlessness in equal proportions, rolls on unstoppably with a phalanx of reporters and men of the cloth as its accomplices. Look at the accepted choice of words for the ravings of Jeremiah Wright: controversial, incendiary, inflammatory. These are adjectives that might have been

  27. djiggs says:

    This article was so accurate that it got the biggest Obamaniac, Andrew Sullivan, to issue a reasoned and (my God even critical) look at the candidate that he is still supporting. And, that is all I am asking for not to have our “Eyes Wide Shut”. Here is Sullivan’s response.
    He’s my friend and I respect him and he’s entitled to his view that Obama is a cynic and a self-serving fraud, but allow me to write where I think Hitch is being unfair. Item One:
    Looking for a moral equivalent to a professional demagogue who thinks that AIDS and drugs are the result of a conspiracy by the white man, Obama settled on an 85-year-old lady named Madelyn Dunham, who spent a good deal of her youth helping to raise him and who now lives alone and unwell in a condo in Honolulu.
    This seems to me to elide too many connections, i.e. it’s too cheap a shot. The point Obama was making in referring to his grandmother, whom he evokes with great vividness and love in his first book, written long before he ran for any office, is that we are all full of fear and anger. The anger that Jeremiah Wright still harbors from the indignities of the 1950s and 1960s is not without reason even if it is wrong; and the fear that his own grandmother has of a black male stranger on the street is also not without reason even if it is wrong. And Obama – who doesn’t make the comparison as directly as Hitch implies – says he loves both and that both have a point but that both need to overcome their fear. More: he shows in his book that his grandmother did overcome that fear in many ways, while it is clear that he believes Wright, in some instances, still hasn’t. I also don’t think you can fairly hear or read Obama’s speech and believe he was somehow saying that his grandmother’s racial fear was as objectionable as Wright’s racist outbursts. He doesn’t denounce it in anything like the same terms. These are nuances, but then that speech was indeed nuanced.
    Item Two:
    I assume you all have your copies of The Audacity of Hope in paperback breviary form. If you turn to the chapter entitled “Faith,” beginning on Page 195, and read as far as Page 208, I think that even if you don’t concur with my reading, you may suspect that I am onto something. In these pages, Sen. Obama is telling us that he doesn’t really have any profound religious belief, but that in his early Chicago days he felt he needed to acquire some spiritual “street cred.”
    Again, if you read those pages and the totality of the book and Obama’s account of his own faith in many other contexts, you will see this passage as a confession by Obama of some of the non-spiritual motives he had for seeking out an authentic black experience as he saw it in Chicago. He is not telling us his own faith isn’t real, and it is absurd to read the book and infer that. In fact, what is remarkable about the book is that Obama is able to show how his mixed motives were at one point overwhelmed by sincere religious faith. What strikes me about that is its human honesty, not its cynicism.
    Now Hitch, of course, believes that all religious faith is contemptible and a fraud. I don’t. And I think Hitch’s healthy skepticism toward all forms of uplift, political and religious, has a very important place in our culture and in Western freedom. I would not expect Hitch to feel anything but visceral revulsion to an Obama sermon. And I don’t like some of the messianic tinges to the Obama movement much either. But I think Obama’s foreign policy proposals in the wake of the Iraq debacle, the resort to reason in his dialogue, and his recourse to to civility and to complexity in an age of ugliness and soundbites more than counter-balance this redemptive temptation.
    Of course, I cannot see totally into a man’s soul, Obama’s or anyone else’s, and I cannot know for sure that he is pure of motive. That he has confessed that he has not always been pure of motive is for me a good sign, not a bad omen. Perhaps Hitch is right that all of this is some gigantic fraud in which the most sincere matters of faith and family are being cynically used for pure politics. We can only look at a man’s words and actions and self-explanation, and do our best to make a judgment.
    This is my judgment. I do not believe Obama is a cynical fraud, a closet anti-Semite, a believer that white people are evil, a man who holds that white men gave black people AIDS, or is so empty that his own beloved grandmother is just another vehicle for his self-advancement. I do not believe his faith as he has tried to express it is phony or cynical. I do not believe his refusal to disown Wright is a function of politics, but a function of human loyalty and love, which can often transcend or even be empowered by that loved one’s flaws, and even malice. Do I wish Obama had never known Wright? In one sense, yes. In another, no. It is partly what makes him who he is – a bridge in some extremely troubled currents.
    Hitch predicts I will soon be proven wrong, that the mask will soon be ripped off, and great disillusion will sink in again. Maybe it will, and I will be forced into another humiliating confession of misjudgment. There’s a vital place in the discourse for such skepticism as Hitch’s – and I’m not looking for a savior (I have one already, thanks), just a way forward. But when skepticism lacks the willingness to listen and to grant, even for a moment, the benefit of the doubt to a man whose message is, in tone more than substance, an antidote to our current national and international crisis, it is, I think, missing something important right now. It is getting very close to cynicism.
    One of us, I guess, will at some point be proven wrong, or, more accurately, less right. All I can say is that I doubt Hitch will be particularly thrilled when the Clintons move in for the carcass of what was and remains the audacity of hope.

  28. Blackcloud says:

    djiggs, dude, just post the links.

  29. doug r says:

    You know, Hitch still thinks the Iraq war was a good idea.

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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?

So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.

And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.

There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.

I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.

So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.

But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”

My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher

“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.

~ David Simon