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David Poland

By David Poland poland@moviecitynews.com

Star Wars Opens

50 million geeky dollars.
What do you think?

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173 Responses to “Star Wars Opens”

  1. Chester says:

    Yes, but not one of those dollars was contributed by Stella’s Boy, which makes the film an abject failure. (Just teasing you, SB.)

  2. Joe Sullivan says:

    To quote The Simpsons:
    “What do you plan on doing with your million dollars, sir?”
    “Oh, I don’t know. Throw it in the pile, I suppose.”

  3. Kenn says:

    Joe Leydon: I was checking out the ROTS Visual Dictionary and it said that Anakin was away for 5 months.
    Today, I went to see it for my third time at the Zeigfield in NYC. Please see this movie digitally projected, you don’t know what your missing. This time out I brought my seven year old nephew and he had no problems with the dark stuff. Which is either a relief or maybe I should start worrying. I have to say that with the last two movies, on further viewing, the bad stuff just got more painful to watch and the stuff I thought was good starting revealing itself to suck too. The exact opposite is happening with Sith. The bad stuff doesn’t seem that bad anymore and the good stuff keeps getting better and deeper.

  4. L&DB says:

    I love SW, but the geek nitpicks have just driven
    me to the edge. Accursed lot that bunch, but not
    like you can hide your weight with a beard. But
    at least, to the layman, the film is going out on
    top. The only problem people might have were the
    LOVE scenes because I felt uncomfortable from the
    midnight audience that were around me. Not like you
    can just stand up and explain the way the set-up
    for that scene. Again, it all comes back down
    to the basic of all comments; “I get it, you dont,
    and now let us dance.” Never a good stance but it
    happens.
    These are not complaints to this forum. Im just
    venting. Im actually shocked by the dap the flick
    has seemingly received on this blog. Outside of
    Bob and I, I thought no one would like it. Go
    figure.

  5. Kenn says:

    I have to say that the audience I saw it with today loved it…lots of tears in people’s eyes and Yoda is definitely the crowd pleaser. As everyone walked out , I could hear that they loved it.

  6. Dan R% says:

    To quote an old friend, “Impressive. Most impressive.”
    I have seen the film twice now. It was better the second time around, even though I did love it the first. After you know what to expect it’s more enjoyable (I’m referring to the crappy dialogue). Anyhow, I will probably see it again this weekend sometime. Maybe even tonight. The audiences I saw it with seemed to enjoy it overall.

  7. jeffmcm says:

    I like the movie quite a bit, but L&DB, you really must stop standing up for the love scenes. They were less painful in Ep. III than they were in Ep. II, but they were still the weakest aspect of the movie. And there really isn’t anything to ‘get’. You can suspend your disbelief and taste to a greater capacity than most, but that’s different.

  8. L&DB says:

    But jeff, are we not saying the samething? Explain
    more thoroughly if you would, but does not the last
    part of your post essentially play into the whole
    “get it” argument? Again, if not, then give a
    brother more of an explaination if you could.
    And Im not defending that love scenes. Just stating
    I like them. I even like them more than the OT
    romance.
    However, I actually saw the film with an audience
    who hardly popped for Yoda. Easily the worst audience
    I have ever seen a film with.

  9. jeffmcm says:

    You can like whatever you want. That’s fine. But to claim that you like them because you ‘get’ them implies you are accessing some hidden knowledge that everyone else is too ignorant to follow. That’s all.

  10. Commander Bly says:

    Well, duh…

  11. Mark says:

    And another 400 million to go.

  12. BluStealer says:

    I wish Lucas would make some more. Star Wars is now over. Sigh.

  13. Joe Leydon says:

    Am I getting more senile than I fear I already am, or did Lucas at one point, many years ago, say something about doing a THIRD triology? I’m not teasing you, BluStealer, I’m almost certain I read something like that in an interview.

  14. BluStealer says:

    Joe, why are you out to hurt my feelings by teasing me on this great but sad weekend? Why you so mean?

  15. L&DB says:

    SW still has more life in it than you would imagine.
    As I say (I paraphase from Angel), “STAR WARS IS
    LEGION.” Not only will you have more of the animated
    series. There will also be the SW television series.
    Which, thanks to editing, has COUNTLESS STORIES to
    tell. You have several jedis who were not killed.
    You have some clone troopers not scene, and so on.
    I just have a feeling that in ten to fifteen years.
    SW will return to the screen. 7-9 will happen
    but Lucas will leave them in the hands of a director
    he finds to be loyal to the saga. Again, total
    speculation on my part, but I really believe those
    films will happen.

  16. BluStealer says:

    Say it’ll be true, L and DB!

  17. KamikazeCamel says:

    I remember reading that a few years back when Clones was released. There is actually three seperate trilogies, right?
    They very well may appear somewhere down the track.
    And they’re saying Sith is on course to make $150 this weekend, which is already half of what Clones made so it’d have to a horrible internal average (or whatever Box Office Prophets uses) to not get over Clones’ total ($310mil or somewhere around)
    I wonder if any of Stella’s friends or family saw it?

  18. L&DB says:

    Probably everyone but Stella and her Boy, Camel.
    That might be speculation on my part.

  19. joefitz84 says:

    Who’s Stella kidding? He was waiting in line on Wednesday for it. And saw it Thursday at the matinee showing.

  20. nudel says:

    I definitely remember from a decades-old interview (Rolling Stone in the 70s?) that Lucas said he had 3 trilogies in mind. However he’s recently said over and over that he’s never doing the post-Originals trilogy.

  21. Stella's Boy says:

    Am I going to get yelled at again for posting here when I’m not even going to see the movie? No, I haven’t seen it, but I’m glad that all of you like it. To each their own.

  22. Joe Leydon says:

    Hey, according to Box Office Mojo, “Stars Wars” dropped 29 percent on its second day of release. Guess bad word of mouth is killing it, eh?

  23. Geoff says:

    Joe,
    If you read the whole Box Office Guru report, you would see that much of that first day gross was due to unsually high midnight grosses from Wednesday night – actually comparing the grosses of each resulted in a 3% jump.
    You knew this film would explode on its first Thursday. But still, almost $35 mill for a Friday is pretty damn good. I really don’t see how the pundits or studio could have expected more than that.
    Now, if the film drops on Saturday, then you’ll have a story, but it’s too soon to tell.

  24. G-Man says:

    Joe, how much total business do you think it will do (domestic and worldwide)?

  25. Joe Leydon says:

    Geoff: That was a joke. Remember all our back and forth about “opening weekend word of mouth” last week? Sheesh.
    G-Man: Good question. And I’ll give you a good answer — it’s too soon to tell. I suspect it COULD wind up being the highest-grossing film of the second trilogy. But only if Stella can be convinced to see it. Otherwise, there is no hope.

  26. G-Man says:

    And Stella, I still can’t believe you’re refusing to see this movie. Are you planning on seeing any of the other big summer movies? If so, I don’t know how you can ignore the 800 pound gorilla right outside your bedroom window.
    Are you at least going to rent it when it comes out on DVD?
    And did you ever address why you bothered to see Episodes 1 and 2?
    The gorilla wants answers.
    Feed me.

  27. G-Man says:

    Ha, I wrote that post to Stella before I even read your response Joe. I’m going to hound him until he spills the beans.

  28. G-Man says:

    FEED ME STELLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  29. BluStealer says:

    Stella has his principles. He’s seen The Pacifier now three times.

  30. G-Man says:

    SSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
    LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  31. G-Man says:

    I know you’re reading this.

  32. BluStealer says:

    He’s in love with you G Man.

  33. Joe Leydon says:

    G-Man: That is, hands down, the worst Marlon Brando imitation I’ve ever heard.

  34. Stella's Boy says:

    I didn’t like Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones at all. They erased any and all desire I have to sit through this one. They’re just not my cup of tea. I don’t know why that is such a big deal. I know plenty of people who have no plans to see it. Not every single movie buff loves the SW movies.

  35. Joe Leydon says:

    But Stella: If you don’t go, then the Empire has won.

  36. joefitz84 says:

    The guy goes out and pays money to see Crash but won’t see Episode 3? Interesting. Full of crap but interesting.

  37. G-Man says:

    But Sith IS “a big deal.” Not only is it a truly global phenomenon but it will earn a spot in the top 10 movie grosses of all time. And it’s not like you’re a casual moviegoer.
    They ran the Preakness Stakes today. You watching TPM and AOTC but not watching ROTS is like a serious horseracing fan travelling to Kentucky and Pimlico and then just blowing off Belmont.
    And then acting surprised when people ask why.

  38. G-Man says:

    That last post is for Stella.

  39. jeffmcm says:

    Let’s all ignore Stella. He’s obviously one of those types who takes pride in not liking mass-market things so that he can feel superior. That’s why he persists in hanging around on the Star Wars discussion pages.

  40. Joe Leydon says:

    Oh, I dunno. Today, my beloved Houston Astros are plumbing heretofore unchartered depths of suck. (It’s the bottom of the seventh, and they’re behind the frickin’ Texas Rangers 3-18.) I follow the team and I wish them well, but if I’d paid to see them today, I doubt if I’d go back anytime soon, even if they suddenly became World Series contenders. Maybe “Menace” and “Clones” were similarly off-putting experiences for Stella.

  41. G-Man says:

    Leydon, you must agree that Stella couldn’t act in a more snobbish manner. Think about it. It’s the FINAL chapter of a record-setting, culture uniting, enormously referenced trilogy (the rest of which he’s seen). I mean really think about it. I challenge you to come up with a more snobbish stunt.
    Jeffmom, Joefitz, Blustealer and I have formed an alliance and we’re voting Stella off the island.
    The tribe has spoken.

  42. G-Man says:

    Go see the movie Stella or give me your fucking torch.

  43. Martin says:

    I like how a lack of interest in seeing the 6th star wars movie makes you a snob. That’s like calling someone a stuckup asshole for not eating at McDonalds. Just because half the country eats big macs doesn’t mean they’re any good.

  44. Stella's Boy says:

    It’s like talking to a bunch of angry teenagers around here (with a few exceptions). I am not the type that takes pride in not liking mass-market things so that I can feel superior. Jeff, you don’t know me. Why pretend to? I don’t feel superior to anyone here. Why would I? I persist in hanging around here, as you put it, because other people have asked me questions and made references to me. I’m sorry if that’s a problem for you. And I’m not a snob G-Man. Nor is it “a stunt.” You act like every single man, woman and child on the entire planet is seeing this movie. None of you know me, so I’m not sure why you’re acting like you do. But you are all wrong. Totally, completely wrong. Different strokes for different folks. Why does every movie buff have to love the SW movies? I’m sorry, but I just don’t care.

  45. Stella's Boy says:

    Excellent point Martin.

  46. G-Man says:

    Okay Martin and Stella, let’s play games.
    Not watching ROTS is like Stella claiming to like fast food, going to eat at Kentucky Fried Chicken and Burger King, and then refusing to ever try McDonalds.
    LOL – This reminds me of a debate I saw on Crossfire between Tucker Carlson and Al Sharpton. Here’s the excerpt (it’s only a couple of paragraphs and it’s REALLY funny if you read it in sequence).
    ———————-
    SHARPTON: It’s 1.4 million jobs, Judy, that is not paying what they used to pay and it’s after a loss of 3 million jobs. So I guess if you want the Republican analysis, if President Bush stabbed the American public in the back six inches and we got it out two inches, Tucker calls that progress. I say we still got knifed in the back.
    CARLSON: I would say this is what you get when you get globalization. Again, you don’t manufacturer as many heavy things as you used to. We’re transitioning more to a service economy. That may be good, it may be bad, but again, it’s part of a very long-term trend that the current president, I don’t think, had a whole lot to do with.
    SHARPTON: In that trend, this current president gave us tax cuts, he gave us a war that was not necessary that we spent hundreds of billions of dollars. It’s not like all he did, Tucker, was sit around trying to salvage the money. This guy was very, very, very extravagant during these times. And I think if you took away his tax cut, took away his war he could have probably handled the trends a lot better.
    CARLSON: Yes, I mean, if you don’t know — wars are super expensive. This president is a big spender. There’s no question about it. On the other hand we were in a recession not that long ago and now we’re not and I think you have to give Bush credit for that.
    SHARPTON: We went to war over weapons that weren’t there. I mean, it’s one thing to be a big spender, it’s another thing when you come home with no shopping bags.
    CARLSON: I can’t extend the metaphor further. You’ve taken me to the limit.
    —————————-
    Tucker, I couldn’t have said it better myself.

  47. jeffmcm says:

    I think the analogy is, it’s like saying you don’t like McDonald’s and then hanging out on a McDonald’s discussion site. If you went away, Stella, people would stop mentioning you or asking questions.

  48. KamikazeCamel says:

    “Why does every movie buff have to love the SW movies? I’m sorry, but I just don’t care.”
    You don’t have to, nor is anyone saying you must like it, but I think people just find it strange that you have absolutely no desire to see what is destined to be at least one of the top 3 highest grossing movies of the year (and mostly likely #1) that people are talking about everywhere (including this blog) and that is at almost every cinema imaginable.
    Aren’t you at least intrigued by almost every review saying it’s actually better than Phantom and Clones? Considering you main reason (it seems) for not seeing Sith is the bad taste the other two left in your movie going palate.
    That and your comment about not have one solitary friend of family member that is going to see it made me laugh.

  49. Joe Leydon says:

    Guys (and Blu): This obsession with Stella’s moviegoing tastes is getting kinda weird. I mean, it’s almost as creepy as Dave’s obsession with my ass. And, anyway, you just know he bought one of those “Revenge” bootleg DVDs and saw it before any of us did. So can we change the subject?
    BTW: For those of you on West Coast time: As you might expect, “SNL” has a “Star Wars” sketch tonight. It’s not unfunny.

  50. Kenn says:

    Hey Stella, if I send you ten bucks for the ticket would you go see Star Wars? We need your help to break some records this weekend.

  51. L&DB says:

    As a friggin huge SW fan that has already seen Revenge
    SIX TIMES (this film never ceases to be one hell of
    a gut punch. Just right to the gut, and a occassionally
    to the balls. Friggin Windu.) already. I can easily
    pick up the slack for all of Stella’s family and
    friend. I plan on seeing it 20 times as does my
    friend, and that’s like 40 times! So, dont sweat
    Boy, Im carrying his weight! WOO TO THE HOO!

  52. Kenn says:

    Six times already? And I thought I was extreme seeing it three times.

  53. lota says:

    I’ll see ROTS this week, I didn’t want to miss the Dave Chappelle marathon this weekend.
    There are so many showings this is probably why they aren’t selling out completely in my area–who wants to see ROTS at 9:45 AM?! One of my nerd brothers did.

  54. Martin says:

    there’s nothing wrong with being a fanatic about something (as long as it isn’t illegal/hurting other people). But to act as if every moviegoer has a deep desire to see the 6th Star Wars movie is kind of insane. There is a very large group of moviegoers that will patronize this ‘final’ SW movie, but I don’t see it being that cross-over, widely appealing hit that even something like The Longest Yard could achieve. This is a dark, final chapter in a series that has become less and less well regarded as it has gone along. And the true numbers for this film will play out next weekend.

  55. Stella's Boy says:

    jeff, I keep coming back here just to piss you off. I think it’s funny that you spend so much time whining and complaining about me. If not for you, I might have stopped posting here long ago. So, keep up the good work. I like talking about movies, sometimes even ones I haven’t seen and will never see. If you don’t like it jeff, you are free to go elsewhere to discuss SW.

  56. G-Man says:

    Martin, I honestly don’t know how many times I can say this but here we go again…
    No one EVER said that every moviegoer had a desire to see Star Wars. What we have said is that it’s strange for a proclaimed movie-LOVER like Stella to completely ignore the biggest movie of the year – especially when he bothered to see the first two.
    You keep saying that we’re saying that everyone has to like Star Wars. That’s just not true. Seriously, what website are you reading? If you think I’m wrong, please cite examples in your response. But in doing so, remember that the term “movie-lover” is not the same as “moviegoer” or “casual moviegoer.”

  57. Stella's Boy says:

    G-Man, don’t you think that there are plenty of movie-lovers who are not interested in seeing Sith? I am not a “proclaimed” movie-lover. I don’t need to see Sith to be a movie-lover. You don’t have to love the SW movies to be a movie-lover.

  58. Joe Leydon says:

    Stella, would you at least consider reading the paperback novelization… excuse me, the hardcover book based on the screenplay… so the other folks on this thread could get on with the rest of their lives?

  59. Stella's Boy says:

    A compromise? Well, if it meant that certain individuals could begin worrying about other things again and get on with their lives, I might consider it. I’m all about helping others.

  60. Joe Leydon says:

    Or how about the coloring book? If you’d just color a few pages of the frickin’ coloring book, for God’s sake. Just pick a few pages with Darth Vader — you won’t need many Crayolas besides Black.

  61. Martin says:

    Just because many here love eating at McDonald’s doesn’t mean I do. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying the lowest common denominator. It’s when the latest version of the Big Mac suddenly becomes an important cuisine experience that I start having problems.

  62. G-Man says:

    “I am not a ‘proclaimed’ movie-lover” – Stella
    Oh really? Here are two separate quotes from your own posts:
    “Different strokes for different folks. Why does every movie buff have to love the SW movies?” – Stella
    and
    “Not every single movie buff loves the SW movies.” – Stella
    You clearly imply you are a “movie buff” in these posts. So what’s your argument now? Is “movie buff” not the same as “movie-lover?”
    Or does that depend on what the definition of “is” is?
    Get your story straight Stella. And Joe, you never gave me a better example of snobbery.
    And finally, yes, despite Lazarus’ promised “revolution” – I just made fun of Slick Willy.

  63. Joe Leydon says:

    G-Man: Huh?

  64. G-Man says:

    Joe, read my May 21 – 4:18 PM post.

  65. Joe Leydon says:

    G-Man: Oh, I’m sorry. I thought you were accusing me of being a snob. Excuse me, I have to call up those IRA contract killers and tell them not to bother.

  66. Stella's Boy says:

    G-Man, I don’t need to get anything straight. I meant what I said. When you said “proclaimed” movie-lover, I took that as you questioning whether or not I am really a movie-lover because of my refusal to see SW. I responded by stating that I am not a “proclaimed” movie-lover. Get what I mean?

  67. Joe Leydon says:

    The Proclaimers? Didn’t they record that song “(I Would Walk) 500 Miles”?

  68. Stella's Boy says:

    That they did Joe. It’s a classic.

  69. G-Man says:

    “Get what I mean?” – Stella
    Not really. Like I told Martin, I’m starting to wonder what website you’re reading. Jeffmcm, Joefitz, Blustealer and I have all been wondering how a “movie-lover” like Stella justifies not watching the biggest movie of the year – especially after seeing the first two. Your “movie-lover” status is the foundation of our “Stella is a snob” argument. I’m starting to question your reading comprehension.
    It’s like talking to a brick wall.
    We say “Stella, why do you call yourself a movie-lover and then refuse to see the FINAL chapter of a record-setting, culture uniting, enormously referenced trilogy (the rest of which you’ve seen)?”
    And Stella and Martin ignore every point I just made and say “Why do you think everyone has to like Star Wars?”
    NO, WE DIDN’T FUCKING SAY THAT. Goddamn, this is fucking ridiculous. Seriously, Stella, if you’re going to reply to this particular post you need to make an ARGUMENT, also known as “a course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood” or “a set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.”

  70. Stella's Boy says:

    You’re questioning my read comprehension? That’s a good one. I’m not seeing it because I don’t like the SW movies and I have no desire to sit through it. How much clearer can I be? How does that make me a snob? Just because it’s going to make a lot of $ means I have to see it? That makes zero sense, as does your contention that any serious movie lover has to see it. That is complete bullshit. I call myself a movie-lover because I am one, and I’m not seeing it because I don’t want to. OK? Clear enough? Need me to use smaller words and break it down for you?

  71. G-Man says:

    I’m going to give you 5 minutes to make an actual argument. If you don’t I’m going to completely rip apart your last post.

  72. Kenn says:

    I think Stella’s having so much fun being the center of attention, that he may never see another movie again just to keep it up.

  73. G-Man says:

    Time’s up.
    Ironically, this reply was delayed because I was watching a movie.
    “You’re questioning my read[ing] comprehension?” – Stella
    Yes, Sherlock. You’ll soon see why.
    “How does that make me a snob?” – Stella
    Webster’s Dictionary defines a “snob” as “one who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste.”
    You describe yourself as a movie-lover. You post to this website. You said yourself that you “like talking about movies, sometimes even ones I haven’t seen and will never see.”
    Oh really? You like talking about movies? But, apparently, you don’t like talking about the biggest movie of this year. A movie that just happens to also be part of the, arguably, most popular and well-known movie trilogies of all time. A movie that had people from Mexico to Germany to Britain dressing up as fictional characters in front of sold out theaters. But oh no, you don’t want to see this movie. You don’t want to be able to converse about it. I understand your reasoning. After all, this movie has nothing to do with the movie industry, its culture or its global image.
    The only people that would want to talk about those things are people that like talking about movies. And you’re not one of those people. Right?
    You are the worst type of snob because instead of just admitting it you’ve got the nerve to try and make yourself out as some kind of victim. At least have the courage to just say you think you have a “superiority in matters of knowledge or taste” and don’t whine when you get, as you said, “yelled at for posting here” and don’t hide behind a broad, lame and cowardly “I’m not seeing it because I don’t want to.” bawl (also your own words).

  74. L&DB says:

    Martin, not as well regarded? I would buy that if
    there were COUNTLESS LOTR mentions over this past
    review cycle of Revenge. Yet, unlike LOTR, SW IS
    LEGION! It’s special. Rather you like TPM or Attack.
    It has proven to have the ability to mean more than
    poorly acting hobbit and Sean Astin trying to carry
    that blackhole of charisma. Just do not call SW a
    chessburger. Though I do love a good burger, that
    comment reads all sorts of snobbish. Shit. It’s
    not even a good analogy. How about if you dont
    want to see something, then you dont see it? Since
    any other statement really does not work that well.
    Plus, if The Longest Yard has a crossover appeal.
    I would be shocked. Rock and Sandler in a film together
    just screams shit. The fact that they are hyping
    Nelly as being important to the film even more
    schlocky. That film just screams deminishing
    returns. Plus with Revenge on so many screens exactly
    where are they supposed to be putting The Longest Yard
    outside of the Chinese Theatre of course.
    Leave Boy alone. We just need to remember that
    when he does see the movie on DVD and Cable in the
    coming months and LIKES it. To constantly slag him
    as often as possible.

  75. Chester says:

    G-Man, you don’t have to see every movie that’s out there to be a movie lover. PERIOD. You don’t have to let popular taste dictate your movie choices to be a movie lover. PERIOD. There are plenty of people who every weekend skip the hot mainstream releases and see nothing other than documentaries, independent films and foreign films. And you know what? They are movie lovers too. PERIOD.
    It seems like every film critic at some point (or often) complains about this or that movie that stole two hours of his/her life that he/she can never get back. SB is under no comparable duty to self-impose that kind of regret by dragging himself to see ROTS, and if he thinks his time might be better spent doing something else (e.g., seeing what he expects will be a better movie), he is still a movie lover. The fact that he has discriminating tastes in his choices (as we all do) does not disqualify him from that title, nor from contributing his thoughts on this blog.
    Sometimes you have to swim against the tide if you want to get to where you want to go. And if it’s a choice between being called a snob or becoming indiscriminate cattle herded into a theatre, I’ll take the snob title every time. So I for one applaud SB’s courage in standing his ground – even though he’s made a choice that doesn’t match my own personal taste. What’s abberant is not so much SB’s choice but the amount of time, space and energy devoted here by people like you to harassing him for it. Talk about “get a life”!

  76. G-Man says:

    ‘What’s abberant is not so much SB’s choice but the amount of time, space and energy devoted here by people like you to harassing him for it. Talk about “get a life”!’ – Chester
    It takes all of 3 minutes to write a post here. And I interact with people not online (i.e. friends right here in front of me) when I post online. I’ve been posting here a lot because I’m calling Stella out as the snob he is. But I guess you don’t, as you put it, “applaud” my “courage in standing [my] ground.”
    Sounds like a double standard to me.
    Star Wars isn’t just a movie. It’s groundbreaking, state-of-the-art movie history. The easiest way for a snob to finagle his way out of being called out is to do what you just did and claim he has “selective” tastes. You can use that argument to justify anything.
    Oh yeah, I forgot.
    PERIOD.

  77. Martin says:

    Star Wars is no longer groundbreaking, there are countless movies made nowadays that are just as competent in their technology as each new Star Wars. And even if that were not the case, how vapid are your tastes in movies that you’d go simply to ogle some new special effects technology? Who cares? Most people see movies because of the stories being told. Many regular moviegoers simply could not care less about the Star Wars stories at this poin. As was said earlier, it comes back to the McDonald’s analogy. Just because a billion people eat their burgers doesn’t make them any good for you. In fact, it simply says that there are many people in the world satisfied by cheap, poorly made products. I can’t respect a Star Wars fanatic, but I can understand their love of movies.

  78. Joe Leydon says:

    G-Man: With all due respect, who died and made you the person to whom Stella or anyone else has to justify his moviegoing selections? Your arrogance throughout this thread has been, frankly, astonishing. And, yes, more than a little comical. You come swaggering in here like a drunken bully, roaring about “snob” this and “classic” that, and expect us to be impressed. We are not.
    Let me turn this around: If I were to tell you that you couldn’t be any kind of true-blue, 24-karat genuine movie lover if you haven’t seen, say, the entire oeuvre of Francois Truffaut and Howard Hawks, or Kar Wai Wong and Alfred Hitchcock, you very likely would tell me to do something that is biologically impossible. And you know what? You would be right to do so. Because you don’t have to justify yourself to me or anyone else.
    And this colossally asinine business about “Address my point in five minutes, or I’ll huff and I’ll puff and I’ll blow your house down…” Geez. That’s sad.

  79. G-Man says:

    Okay, this is getting fun. I’ll be back in a couple of minutes.

  80. Chester says:

    G-Man, you said, “Star Wars isn’t just a movie. It’s groundbreaking, state-of-the-art movie history.”
    I like the movie a lot. I’ve seen it twice in the past four days. Having said that, there is little I can recall that I would consider genuinely groundbreaking within it, almost nothing that I expect will be referenced in years to come. Sure, the film has all the whiz-bang that money can buy. But so does a hotel in Vegas. While quite entertaining, IMHO neither should be considered the most essential of art. In the end, I expect ROTS will only be viewed as “movie history” within the narrow context of the films that preceded it in the series (not on its own merits) and by its final box office gross.
    You said, “Webster’s Dictionary defines a ‘snob’ as ‘one who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste.'” Just because Stella’s Boy refuses to see ROTS doesn’t mean he’s giving off any air of superiority. He’s just stating his preference, not sticking it to anyone who chooses differently. The same cannot be said about you with your endless personal harangues against his choices and tastes. You’re not just a snob, G-Man. You’re a predatory one.

  81. G-Man says:

    I have returned with an exciting invention. It’s called the scroll up bar. Martin and Joe, since I haven’t had time to distribute this new wonder I will address your points by scrolling up and reading for you.
    Martin:
    Okay I’m laughing as I’m typing this. Are you getting paid every time you mention “McDonald’s?”
    Anyway, I’ve already said that Star Wars is movie history…blah blah blah. Read it for yourself. If you don’t agree the CGI stuff is groundbreaking then maybe we can at least agree on that. Or not.
    Joe:
    “You come swaggering in here like a drunken bully, roaring about “snob” this and “classic” that, and expect us to be impressed.” – Joe
    Okay, if you want to reminisce, I came “swaggering” in here talking about how the Europeans caused the war in Iraq by not joining us and presenting a united front to Saddam. Why do I bring that up? Because I said that on a liberal board. I did it not expecting anyone to be “impressed.” The same applies here.
    “Your arrogance throughout this thread has been, frankly, astonishing.” – Joe
    Okay, you’re right about one thing.
    Go fuck yourself.
    Stella’s the snob – not me.

  82. G-Man says:

    Alright, here we go Chester.
    The groundbreaking thing is a true opinion so we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on that. You agree its movie history though. Great! Welcome aboard.
    “The same cannot be said about you with your endless personal harangues against his choices and tastes.” – Chester
    Stella and I have been going back and forth. Be careful with your attacks.
    “You’re not just a snob, G-Man. You’re a predatory one.”
    lol. I’m not a child molester.
    But anyway, cite examples of my “snobbery” and then we’ll talk.
    Toodles!

  83. Joe Leydon says:

    “Go fuck yourself.”
    Well, that tells us a lot about the level of discourse you’re capable of sustaining. As I said, that’s sad. Just plain sad. G-Man, I shall henceforth ignore you. Because you obviously lack the intelligence to write anything I’m interested in reading. And the nice thing is, I won’t have to read any of your postings. That, too, is what scroll bars are for. All I can add is, if you truly are in the military, may God look over you and protect you and keep you from harm during these perilous times. And no, I’m not being ironic, only respectful – of the uniform, if not the man wearing it.

  84. Chester says:

    G-Man, now all you’re doing is giving the impression that you are uneducated. First, learn to use that Webster’s Dictionary you quoted above. “Predatory” does not mean “child molester.” As for citing examples of your snobbery, they are in every single post you’ve made on this page. Each attack on Stella’s Boy for his choices and taste was an act of snobbery BY THE DEFINITION YOU POSTED HERE.

  85. G-Man says:

    “‘Go fuck yourself.’ Well, that tells us a lot about the level of discourse you’re capable of sustaining.” – Joe
    ROFLMAO, I wrote that in response to your reference to me telling you to do something “biologically impossible.” That’s the only reason it’s in there.
    Selective memory huh? But it did provide you with a way out though. Right?
    “God look over you and protect you and keep you from harm during these perilous times. And no, I’m not being ironic, only respectful – of the uniform, if not the man wearing it.”
    lol – I’ll take that as a compliment. The uniform is nothing without the man (or woman). Every soldier hates war. But, unlike what the media perpetually puts out, some of us don’t mind being in harm’s way if we believe in what we’re doing. And I do.
    But you’re not reading this right?

  86. Chester says:

    BTW, is “Toodles!” standard military parlance? Or does it more likely invoke “don’t ask, don’t tell” issues? (Not that there’s anything wrong with that…)

  87. G-Man says:

    Chester:
    I brought up child molestors because the media uses the term “predatory child molestor” a lot. Not because I thought you were actually accusing me of being a child molestor.
    You’re going to have to CITE examples of my “snobbery.” Because I have no idea what you’re talking about. Cite some, explain them and make your case and then we’ll talk.
    Or not. Maybe you’ll pull a Joe and throw in the towel. I’m game either way.

  88. G-Man says:

    lol – I try to work “Toodles!” into everything I write. For no real reason. And I’m glad to see you’re refraining from homophobic language (which you are, I’m actually not being sarcastic this time).

  89. G-Man says:

    I meant “accusations” instead of “language” in my last post.

  90. Chester says:

    Read the definition of “snobbery” that you provided. If you cannot comprehend how your endless, needless assailing of SB’s taste meets that definition dead-on, then I certainly won’t be able to explain it to you any better.
    Over and out.

  91. G-Man says:

    So my “snobbery” is so prevalent that you can find a single example?
    I’m officially raising the BS flag.

  92. G-Man says:

    whoops. “can’t” not “can”

  93. Chester says:

    G-Man, for the last time, you said, “Webster’s Dictionary defines a ‘snob’ as ‘one who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste.'” You have displayed an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste throughout this page – not so much by specific words or phrases but by your endlessly narcissistic insistence that there is something wrong with Stella’s Boy if he does not cave in to your taste. I mean, what exactly are you trying to accomplish here? Shame SB to suffer through a movie for which he has zero interest? Have some humiliating fun at his expense? Knock him down a few pegs off of what you alone deem to be his high horse? No doubt about it then – like many a stupid SOB before you, you’re the one with an offensive need to prove your superiority. And like all offensive people, to use a phrase you are so fond of, you should just go fuck yourself.
    Was that clear enough for you? Better have been, because I’m done wasting any more time with your horseshit. DISMISSED!

  94. G-Man says:

    ROFLMFAO
    “You have displayed an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste throughout this page – not so much by specific words or phrases” – Chester
    This is great. You must be joking. On message boards like this we communicate through “specific words or phrases.” Or do you use telepathy?
    “DISMISSED” – Chester
    ROFLMAO “Yes Sir!”
    You still haven’t articulated a single point.
    P.S.
    Sounds like someone forgot to take their
    medicine.

  95. Chester says:

    Moving on to legitimate ROTS-related business, any thoughts on the trailers that vied so fiercely to get positioned before the film? I experienced three fairly big surprises:
    1. On opening night, the crowd actually booed the “Stealth” trailer. (Personally, I think it looks like it has potential.)
    2. The biggest trailer cheers at both screenings I attended were for “Fantastic Four” (with “Batman Begins” a close second).
    3. Each of the audiences and I were left completely cold by the newest non-descript “War of the Worlds” trailer. As I’ve said before, IMHO this movie does not yet have “money in the bank” written all over it.

  96. G-Man says:

    For all those keeping score at home – don’t worry.
    The fun will continue with Stella’s return tomorrow.

  97. L&DB says:

    Martin, you cant respect a SW fanatic? Wow. Excuse
    me for finding all six chapters of the saga for telling
    a compelling story about the way the love of mother
    passed on to the son and his father’s friends can
    save even the must twisted of men. That is just so
    horrible.
    Also, I just have to call you out as a grandiose
    asshole. Nothing. Not the Matrix sequels, the Spider-Man
    films, the LOTR trilogy (though they would get a
    very special honourary award for trying) matches the
    craftmanship of ANY SW FILM EVER. Nothing at McDonalds
    resembles the time, effort, and work the crews have
    put into all six films over time. You want to keep
    talking out of both sides of your ass. Then go right
    ahead. Yet if one person does not like something then
    rags on those who do. Does that not make him just a
    contrarian asshole? Martin, look in the mirror,
    and you will find tha answer.
    You are even so vain and ridiculous to miss that
    SW has created more MOVIE FANS than any film before
    or since. A New Hope has led to generation of
    generation enthralled by the power of film. Again
    your god damn moronic McDonald’s analogy seems to
    miss this.
    Hate the prequels all you want. Hate SW all you
    want. Just go form a better opinion than one that
    compares great craftsmanship to a fucking Big Mac.

  98. jeffmcm says:

    LDB, I think we all appreciate your enthusiasm for Star Wars by now. But I think you do the makers of the Matrix, Rings and Spider-Man movies a disservice. You may not like their mythic arcs as much, but all eight of those movies have virtually flawless craft as well.
    Besides, in the Star Wars Special Edition DVDs, I can still see the matte boxes around the spaceships.

  99. KamikazeCamel says:

    One the whole Stella business, I still just find it odd that he isn’t remotely interested (along with his family and friends apparently) in the fifth and final movie in a 6 part series. And, I made a point above that this movie is actually getting good reviews. So… i dunno.
    And, secondly, Chester – did I read correctly or did you say the cinema audience was BOOING and CHEERING for trailers?! Okay, American’s officially boggle my mind.

  100. L&DB says:

    Camel if you really want your mind boggled. Date and/or
    marry one of our women.
    Jeff turn down the brightness on your TV man! TURN
    IT DOWN! I would admit my anger might have gotten
    the best of me there. However I just hate his entire
    bloody argument. Comparing SW to something readily
    available totally denegates that all six of those
    films are something totally different than any of
    the 300 films that are show in a year. I love those
    films, outside of that horrible first Spidey film,
    but they just are not SW. I shouldnt have slagged
    them so harshly, but claiming they are nothing more
    than processed pisses me off.
    Plus, as the only hardcore Matrix fan around here.
    I guess I should have thrown in that Trilogy. You
    see kids: ANGER MAKES YOU GO CRAZY!

  101. L&Db says:

    I should have not thrown them in there. Again, I
    went a little loopy. IT happens. Bowienanigans
    upon me.

  102. bicycle bob says:

    stell likes to be different. lets be honest. hes the seen the movie already and probably twice. but he likes being discussed and talked about so he’ll maintain the farce

  103. Terence D says:

    The G Man and Chester need a room together. Sifting through there love responses to each oither gets tiresome after twenty minutes.

  104. Mark says:

    Camel, please don’t take what Chester says as gospel about Americans. No one cheers during trailers. They cheer when the twelve of them are over.

  105. joefitz84 says:

    I saw Stella at a Star Wars show yesterday. He was trying to hide behind his Chewbacca mask but everyone knew it was him.

  106. G-Man says:

    Joe Leydon, Chester, Stella, and Martin have been awfully quiet today.
    Either they’re ignoring me or Joe put that hit back on.

  107. G-Man says:

    I just found a horse’s head in my bed.

  108. jeffmcm says:

    People cheer at trailers if it’s a good trailer. I was surprised that a few people cheered at the Fantastic Four trailer in front of Star Wars. And I was especially surprised that the trailer wasn’t horrible.

  109. VGM says:

    The “Batman Begins” trailer got some big cheers. Of course, this crowd cheered when the curtain opened so the commercials could start. Can’t recall how the “Fantastic Four” trailer went over. Speaking of trailers, any ideas when we might see one for “King Kong”?

  110. KamikazeCamel says:

    crikies, that’s strange [the trailers thing].
    What studio has King Kong? Find that out, find their biggest movie coming up and there ya go [or, so I would assume]

  111. Terence D says:

    Maybe Stella’s Boy and Chester are the same person. Would explain a lot of their loony theories.

  112. BluStealer says:

    I have to really think some people may need help if they’re cheering for trailers. Call me crazy here.

  113. bicycle bob says:

    i’ll give stella a tad more credit than that. hes at least coherent. chester is on another level. which is saying something

  114. VGM says:

    “King Kong” is a Universal release, so perhaps “Cinderella Man”? Other big fall releases have trailers out now, so it should be soon, I imagine.
    The trailer cheering was a bit annoying. I couldn’t hear the dialogue.

  115. bicycle bob says:

    the trailer cheering had to be just the excitement for star wars. i can’t see anyone cheering for cinderella man

  116. Joe Leydon says:

    Hey, folks! This expalins why Stella told us he wasn’t going to see “Star Wars” — he was planning his alibi!
    Person wearing Darth Vader mask robs Springfield theater
    May 22, 2005 (SPRINGFIELD, Ill.)

  117. Stella's Boy says:

    Did you miss me jeff? Think you got rid of me? I had no Internet access while in jail for robbing the movie theater. But I’m out now, and I’m back.

  118. Terence D says:

    I think I know the reason why Stella’s Boy is so anti Star Wars. It’s that he is so pro Star Trek. He dresses as Lt. Uhura on weekends and asks to get “beamed up”. Just for laughs.

  119. joefitz84 says:

    I have him as more of a Sulu kind of guy.

  120. Joe Leydon says:

    Stella: As your attorney, I would advise you to say nothing more about your ALLEGED involvement in the theft. (Of course, if you have ME for your attorney, you must be in trouble.)

  121. Stella's Boy says:

    My lips are sealed Joe. I will speak to no one and await further instructions. I’m not worried. I have an excellent alibi.

  122. joefitz84 says:

    Excellent alibi? Remember to keep that Star Wars ticket stub.

  123. Joe Leydon says:

    Hey, can I ask a SPOILER question yet?

  124. Stella's Boy says:

    Spoil away Joe. I don’t mind.

  125. mex says:

    Yes you can, every one has seen it by now…
    …except Stella Of course.

  126. Stella's Boy says:

    Yes, I am the one and only person in the entire world who has not seen it.

  127. Mark says:

    Stella’s Girl spent opening weekend seeing Kingdom of Heaven for the third time. She likes Orlando as an actor.

  128. Joe Leydon says:

    OK… If Leia is adopted by a mere Viceroy, how the hell did she wind up being a Princess?

  129. Mark says:

    If you’re going to try and spoil it, at least know what you’re talking about. Bail Organa isn’t a Viceroy.

  130. Joe Leydon says:

    Wait a minute! You mean I actually know more about the “Star Wars” mythos than some of you geeks? Jeez, will wonders ever cease?
    Mark: As I type this, I am looking at the “‘Star Wars’ Family Tree” helpfully provided to members of the press. Basil Organa is clearly identified as “Viceroy of Alderaan, adoptive father to Leia.” So there. E-mail me if you want your very own copy. Seriously.

  131. Stella's Boy says:

    Ouch Mark. That second-grade level insult really hurts a lot. You are one clever human being. Pat yourself on the back for that one. How did you ever come up with it? Stella’s Girl. Never saw it coming. Man, that is good. You must be proud of yourself. Keep up the good work. I am going to go cry now and try to recover.

  132. VGM says:

    Bail Organa’s wife is the Queen of Alderaan.

  133. Joe Leydon says:

    You mean she married below her station? How… common.

  134. jeffmcm says:

    Remember that Amidala was Queen in Episode I and Senator in Episode II. Basically the organiation of politics and heads of state in these movies are whatever Lucas feels like at any given moment.

  135. VGM says:

    Perhaps Viceroy is the official title of the queen’s consort. Lucas does seem partial to female monarchs. We haven’t seen a king of Naboo yet, for example.
    The real question, the one the fans will be arguing over endlessly, is if this is the woman Leia remembers as her real mother, who always seemed so sad.

  136. Joe Leydon says:

    (Warning: Geekiness alert)
    Jeff: Yeah, but didn’t she explain in “Episode II” that, on her world, people elected the queen for a limited term, rather than appointing her for life, and that she was asked to serve as rep only AFTER her queenship ended?

  137. jeffmcm says:

    It seems hard to believe that Leia could remember someone as a newborn infant.
    Maybe in this galaxy far far away they still have clinical depression.

  138. jeffmcm says:

    Re: Joe’s post. I’m not saying Lucas was guilty of inconsistency, just that all these titles are up to his whim in every movie.
    Maybe the Republic would have been more stable if they didn’t elect 20-year olds to high political offices.

  139. jeffmcm says:

    Here’s a couple of other inconsistencies with the original trilogy though:
    In Ep. 4, why is Uncle Owen so grumpy and opposed to Luke leaving home, and warn him away from Obi-Wan?
    And what about what Obi-Wan’s reply about how Owen didn’t approve of Anakin going off with Obi-Wan on foolish adventures?
    It suggests that Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Owen were all Tatooine farm boys together, Anakin and Owen were close relatives, and he ran off around Luke’s age to join the Jedi and the Clone Wars.
    I’d like to see L&DB’s high-strung comments on this.

  140. Joe Leydon says:

    Actually, if they’re so damn advanced in this galaxy far, far away, why didn’t Amidala have an ultra-sound so she would’ve known she was having twins?

  141. VGM says:

    Yeah, she tells that to Anakin, and he says something about how the people of Naboo wanted to extend her term anyway, which she refused. She implies, or so I thought, that she was called out of retirement to serve in the Senate, so that was probably several years after her reign ended.
    Leia’s in the Imperial Senate at about the age of 20. Guess she inherited her father’s seat. Never seen that before.

  142. VGM says:

    Re: Joe’s question. Maybe she doesn’t get an ultrasound because that news would get out. Imagine the tabloid headlines! the scandal!

  143. Joe Leydon says:

    Senator Carrying Jedi Love Child! Film at 11!

  144. Lota says:

    I will try to answer Jeffmcm without histrionics.
    There are not inconsistencies, but stuff from the books indicate thus:
    The guardians and foster parents of Luke Skywalker, are Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen. They have tried to raise Luke as a normal youth, keeping from him the fact that his veins coursed with Jedi blood and that his “dead” hero father was not simply a freighter navigator as they have told Luke. (Leia is raised separately for safety from the Emperor).
    Ben (Obi-Wan) Kenobi turned to the Owen/Beru couple just after Luke/Leia were born, and asked that they raise Luke on Tatooine
    Luke and Owen don’t get along, as Luke wants to leave for pilot training at the Academy like his friend Biggs, but Owen insists that he stay “one more season” to help with the chores.
    revealing dialog: Aunt Beru says “You can’t keep him here forever. He’s too much like his father.” and Owen replies, “That’s what I’m afraid of.”
    hinting at Lukes legacy to come…
    Jedi Master Lota

  145. Lota says:

    my answers may not be 100%…partly gleaned from my books and lifted from websites.
    L&DB may want to add emotion.

  146. mex says:

    After I saw EPISODE 3, I saw EPISODE 4 again and it all fits great, except for a part in which Obi Wan tells Luke he wasn’t called Obi Wan since before Luke was born.

  147. jeffmcm says:

    Thanks for that, but I consider the books to be less important sources than the movies (and everything you mention is in RotS anyway).
    My question is, if Obi-Wan is the whole reason why Luke is with Owen and Beru, then why is Owen so hostile to Obi-Wan in Ep. 4? The dialogue suggests Owen and Obi-Wan strongly disagree about what to do with Luke. They look reasonably friendly at the end of RotS.
    I think the only answer is, Lucas wrote himself into a corner.

  148. Joe Leydon says:

    Also: At the risk of sounding like a purist, a movie should stand alone. You should learn all you need to know from the movie itself. Without having to refer to books, or websites. In short, without footnotes. People who begin a “Star Wars” discussion with, “Well, in the books…” lose me from the get-go.

  149. Lota says:

    welll…
    what would a farmer (owen) want to do with war? Many folks not directly involved in the war as Jedi/rebellion or Imperial troopers may see all warriors as causing disruption, death,& worse farming conditions/hardship. In that sense Owen’s reaction is normal as a farmer who wants to be left alone and stay out of all politics, especially since Luke is with him 16yrs+ in relative tranquility and may see Obi wan as a potential threat to that uneasy peace.

  150. jeffmcm says:

    That’s as good an explanation as any.
    I guess my point is, there are still seams between the movies. Just like how in Return of the Jedi, Obi-Wan had to backtrack and explain what he meant when he said Darth Vader had killed Luke’s father.

  151. VGM says:

    It’s not hard to imagine Obi-Wan being, or trying to be, involved in Luke’s upbringing at the beginning. Then at some point he has a falling out with Owen over how to raise Luke–perhaps over whether or not the boy should receive Jedi training?–and Owen tells him to stay the hell away. Obi-Wan heads off into the desert, leaving it to the Force to bring the boy to him when the time is right. In the meantime, he communes with Qui-Gon’s spirit, learning the secret of immortality . . .

  152. BluStealer says:

    I love reading wild theories about Star Wars characters and their fates and trying to read between the lines. Like its a religion or something.

  153. GdB says:

    You want to talk continuity issues?
    My new favorite is on the Empire DVD that is a direct result from how Revenge of the Sith plays out.
    Now the scene in Empire in Act II where Vader talks with the Emperor via hologram, the Emperor reveals to Vader right there that Luke Skywalker is his son. Check the DVD.
    Yet, in the beginning of the film, when they find Hoth and Vader orders the attack he says:
    “That’s it. The rebels are there, and I’m sure SKYWALKER is with them!”
    So…he already knows he’s looking for a Skywalker..um…did he not put it together, or is Skywalker a common name like “Smith” in the Star Wars universe? (somehow I don’t think so)
    That scene is appropriate. But not in Act II of Empire. If anywhere it should be the last scene of the finale of the impending live action TV show or something like that.
    I also think that’s why there is “seams” in the continuity. Fodder for the live action TV show that is to take place between Ep. III & IV

  154. Mark says:

    I saw that the Emperor knew but you really don’t know that hes his son from that little thing. You just think that they’re looking for Luke himself. Not the son of Vader.

  155. GdB says:

    No Mark, I’m talking about the *NEW* altered scene on the Empire DVD. To paraphrase the change:
    Emperor: The jedi we’re looking for is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.
    Vader: How is this possible?
    Emperor: Search your feelings Lord Vader, blah, blah blah.
    That was not in the original cut, or the SE cut. But is now on the DVD cut, and messes with continuity in terms of Vader knowing he’s looking for a “Skywalker” from the first act.
    It’s very explicit in the scene now that Vader discovers at that moment that he has a son.

  156. jeffmcm says:

    This was a stupid change from the original version. Obviously Lucas thought that he needed to include this scene to show the audience step-by-step Vader’s process, but I don’t think anyone cared. It always made sense before that Vader learned who Luke was, somewhere between Star Wars and Empire.

  157. Mark says:

    It will never be the slam dunk it was in 1980. And if Lucas keeps tinkering with them, we’ll never see the movies we loved anyway.

  158. L&DB says:

    1) Joe, Princess Leia adopted by not only Bail
    Organa but also the Her Royal Majesty of Alderran
    Queen Organa. The actress who plays her has that
    title in the credits. Even I huge SW fan that I
    am, had to have my friend explain to me why that
    actress had that billing.
    2) Just some wild conjecture that not one of you
    guys or gals will buy anyway. Again, just follow
    along. There are plenty of Skywalkers in the galaxy.
    Big ol’GALAXY. So Vader knows he’s Luke. Yet not
    sure if that’s his son. He believes he killed Padme.
    He does not believe his child survived. So the new
    scene with the Emperor plays like that. It’s a big
    ol’reveal to Vader that that Skywalker IS HIS SON!
    Again, not like you people will see that. Yet I
    figure Lucas intended it to play that way.
    3) Empire can suck it. It’s has five in the titles
    for a reason.

  159. bicycle bob says:

    u were making sense until ur third point. where u ruined all the good will u built up.

  160. BluStealer says:

    In the newer versions its never revealed that Luke is Vaders son. Until Vader says it. Obviously everyone knows at this point anyway.

  161. VGM says:

    My initial reaction to the new version was that it didn’t really change things. What the Emperor was doing was forcing Vader to admit that this “Skywalker” was his son. It was the Emperor’s way of telling Vader that he wasn’t going to be able to keep Luke secret and train him on his own. Vader was trying to keep the knowledge of Luke’s existence to himself until he could get his hands on him. It just didn’t work. (Ridiculous retcon ends.)
    That may not be what Lucas meant, but that’s how I took it.

  162. Terence D says:

    Anyone else have a strong inclination to play online poker?

  163. jeffmcm says:

    I like VGM’s idea that Vader knows about Luke and it’s the Emperor who gets the confirmation. Since we can’t see any facial expressions on Vader, though, it’s hard to definitively prove.

  164. Lota says:

    Hell if its Dave’s money or Studio money, let’s play Terrence!

  165. GdB says:

    Yeah, it’s a nice idea…
    I don’t think that’s how it was meant to be played…
    If you want to get uber-geeky about it, according to Lucas in the last SW Vanity Fair interview, Lucas talks about how one’s power to the Force is tied to thier physicality. Anakin was the most powerfull until he loses his legs and arms. Then, according to Lucas, as Vader he is only about %20 less powerful than the Emperor, so Vader can’t take him out. And he’s not as strong in the Force anymore as the Emperor and I doubt, in that sense he would know before the Emperor.
    I’m sorry, even though Lucas is a personal hero for me, it’s a sloppy continuity issue.

  166. GdB says:

    But there is two impending TV series, one taking place between III and IV (a 20yr. something timeline?) which I think is plenty of opporotunity to resolve those continuity problems…

  167. jeffmcm says:

    It is sloppy, but dramatically it’s better.
    What Lucas should have done is write the scene so that the Emperor feels a “disturbance in the force” and pulls out from Vader that it’s the son of Anakin Skywalker. Which Vader could have learned in any number of non-force-based ways.

  168. Mark says:

    I think you guys are nitpicking at the movies. There are better things to nitpick about in Star Wars. Why doesn’t Chewbacca get any cool scenes in 3? Why does Yoda run after he has the Emperor on the ropes? Why was Anakin seduced yet it is mostly out of his concern that his wife is going to die during child birth? Thats the reason the Empire takes control? Not his seduction of an ancient off shoot and thirst for power?

  169. VGM says:

    Why does it take twenty years to build the Death Star? I know contractors can be slow, but that slow?

  170. Joe Leydon says:

    VGM: Because every frickin’ time any construction worker got anything wrong, Darth Vader got medieval on his ass. Think it’s easy finding employees for a boss that demanding?

  171. VGM says:

    Joe:
    Yeah, Vader had to hone his Force choking skills somehow, right? I can see it now: “The toilets are how much? I find your [cost overruns] disturbing.”
    That’s probably when the Emperor realizes it might be a good idea to a) switch to robot labor and b) send Vader out to mop up the Jedi, or this Death Star thing will never be finished.

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